Invincible Ignorance

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GeorgeSword

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I’m trying to explain Invincible Ignorance to a friend, but honestly I think I explained it rather stupidly, and I was hoping someone here might be able to explain it a bit better…
As my friend sees it, saying that someone might be saved through Invincible Ignorance is saying there are other truths, and in contradiction of Christ’s statements, though I’ve tried to explain that it just means that Christ can have mercy on them if He so chooses, not that what they are doing is right, or that there are other valid ways to salvation. I’m going to have him keep an eye on this thread, so if someone can explain better, I’d be grateful.
 
I’m “the friend” and I would greatly appreciate it if someone would help out with this.

Thanks and God bless all.
 
You’re not saying there is no truth you are saying yes there is a truth, that person did not live by that truth. Under normal circumstances this person could end up in purgatory or hell.

In this case it was not there fault because they never had the chance to find out or they were never told.

Someone who will only end up inhell/purgatory if they knew the truth and went against it.

I had a job a few months ago and I did soemthing wrong that lost the company $400, it wasn’t my fault because the person who tarined me didn’t tell me. There was no other wa for me to learn.
 
The theological concept is of “Invincible ignorance” is comes from either one of two situations. The common element between these two situations is that the ignorance is not due to a willful act on the part of the person
  1. The person is unable to learn the truth. For example, they suffer from down syndrome or some mental defect that makes them unable to learn the truth. Such a situation also generally impairs their ability to properly evaluate their actions as to the sinfulness and the gravity of their act. In addition, such a person, were they able to comprehend, would choose to follow the the Truth God has revealed. In such a case salvation, even if the person was raised outside of the Church, may be possible. (I said “may” because the Church uses that word. Salvation is not guaranteed to anyone.)
  2. The person, through no fault of their own, has never heard or been exposed to the Gospel message. But more than this, that person must also strive to live a life consistent with the natural law and have the attitude that if he heard the truth, he would embrace it. Such a person may achieve salvation, but with the same caveat that I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
For example, a Buddhist monk who is constantly seeking the truth, never heard the Gospel, but knows there is something more, may achieve salvation (or may not). His atheist neighbor, on the other hand, who rejected Buddhism as just a silly myth, would probably not achieve salvation.

It would be safe to say, except for the mentally disabled, it is not likely that anyone living in the industrialized world can honestly claim to be invincibly ignorant. There are, however, still places in the world where, either through lack of penetration or government suppression, have not yet heard the Gospel message.

All this comes back to the Church teaching of “no salvation outside of the Church.” While true, the issue of invincible ignorance must also be addressed and this is, I believe, what the Church teaches about that.

Now what I have written above is my best understanding. If I am wrong in any detail, I invite well-meaning and charitable correction.
 
So why don’t we just lock everyone up when they are born without telling them anything so they are all saved? 🤷
 
TristanCross said:
So why don’t we just lock everyone up when they are born without telling them anything so they are all saved? 🤷
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They’re much better off knowing the truth, aren’t they? Isn’t it much better to know about Christ? And also, Invincible Ignorance probably isn’t the safest ticket to heaven, either.
 
TristanCross said:
So why don’t we just lock everyone up when they are born without telling them anything so they are all saved? 🤷
Click to expand...
This is actually a good and important question. There is no guarantee that a person can properly learn and embrace the truth. The Lord has determined that He would much rather have people make an informed decision and be guided by His truth than to leave them to their own devices and completely without guidance. Consider the parable of the shepherd and the lost sheep. There are people who would not have followed the Truth were it not for the fact that had heard the Truth. We can all think of stories of people who rejected God and the Church who later came back to the Church. I am one of those people.
 
TristanCross said:
So why don’t we just lock everyone up when they are born without telling them anything so they are all saved? 🤷
Click to expand...
No one is saved just because they are invincibly ignorant. Invincible ignorant is not a ticket to heaven. Far from that, it is a immense obstacle that only God can overcome. Christ’s truth and grace come through the Church. To know God and to love Him sufficiently to be saved is more than extremely difficult for those who are not members of the Church.

Here’s what Pope Pius IX says:
ON PROMOTION OF FALSE DOCTRINES
QUANTO CONFICIAMUR MOERORE
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS IX
7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.
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“God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all” Only God can really say if someone is invincibly ignorant AND is truly not guilty of deliberate sin. We can’t say who has ignorance that is not their fault, let alone who is really good.

I do not know, but I think it is possible for some in industrial countries to have invincible ignorance. Some may have heard of the Church but only have been told lies about it. Some may be overwhelmed and distracted by their lives. Only God knows how guilty each person is for not knowing. We just know that we should help them learn.
 
nkbeth said:
No one is saved just because they are invincibly ignorant. Invincible ignorant is not a ticket to heaven. Far from that, it is a immense obstacle that only God can overcome. Christ’s truth and grace come through the Church. To know God and to love Him sufficiently to be saved is more than extremely difficult for those who are not members of the Church.

Here’s what Pope Pius IX says:

“God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all” Only God can really say if someone is invincibly ignorant AND is truly not guilty of deliberate sin. We can’t say who has ignorance that is not their fault, let alone who is really good.

I do not know, but I think it is possible for some in industrial countries to have invincible ignorance. Some may have heard of the Church but only have been told lies about it. Some may be overwhelmed and distracted by their lives. Only God knows how guilty each person is for not knowing. We just know that we should help them learn.
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This is an excellent answer. Thank you, nkbeth. Much better than my rather feeble response. 🙂
 
Anybody who has ears to hear, listen!

I came up with a parable. 😛

Me and two other people are sitting at dinner eating. One of them has no table manners. He was not raised in an environment where table manners existed. The other was raised well, and was taught table manners. Now, the one with bad table manners should not be chastised of course, because he was not taught the right way. However, once we have taught him the right way and he knows it is the right way, yet he still uses bad table manners, then he should be punished.

Hope that isn’t too hard to get.

God bless.
 
rpp said:
This is actually a good and important question. There is no guarantee that a person can properly learn and embrace the truth. The Lord has determined that He would much rather have people make an informed decision and be guided by His truth than to leave them to their own devices and completely without guidance. Consider the parable of the shepherd and the lost sheep. There are people who would not have followed the Truth were it not for the fact that had heard the Truth. We can all think of stories of people who rejected God and the Church who later came back to the Church. I am one of those people.
Click to expand...
I’m one of those people as well. I wouldn’t have known the truth despite being raised Catholic if I hadn’t finally decided, through the grace of God, to listen to my conscience a couple of years ago. It had been screaming at me constantly for almost 14 years to no avail 🙂
 
Second Vatican Council: “In the depths of his conscience, man detects a law which he does not impose upon himself, but which holds him to obedience. Always summoning him to love good and avoid evil, the voice of conscience when necessary speaks to his heart: do this, shun that. For man has in his heart a law written by God; to obey it is the very dignity of man; according to it he will be judged. Conscience is the most secret core and sanctuary of a man. There he is alone with God, Whose voice echoes in his depths. In a wonderful manner conscience reveals that law which is fulfilled by love of God and neighbor. In fidelity to conscience, Christians are joined with the rest of men in the search for truth, and for the genuine solution to the numerous problems which arise in the life of individuals from social relationships. Hence the more right conscience holds sway, the more persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and strive to be guided by the objective norms of morality. Conscience frequently errs from invincible ignorance without losing its dignity. The same cannot be said for a man who cares but little for truth and goodness, or for a conscience which by degrees grows practically sightless as a result of habitual sin.”
 
John 15: 22
**If I had not come and spoken to them **(pharisis), they would have no sin; but as it is they have no excuse for their sin.

Romans 5:13
for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not **accounted when there is no law. **

James 4:17
So for one **who knows **the right thing to do and does not do it, it is a sin.
 
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