Invincible ignorance...?

[Saul.Tentmaker]

…doesn’t this argue against the idea that one who DOES NOT accept Christ because of invincible ignorance can still be saved?

“Can be saved” and “will be saved” are two very different things.

I speculate that most who are invisibly ignorant will be thrown into the fires of hell. But this is pure speculation, and stems from a view that many, if not most, will be thrown in hell, and that I above most of them deserve fire for my sin.

 

[Nepenthe]

In reply:

Yes, I am ignorant, in that I have no concept of what it apparently is to Believe in anything supernatural. Invincible? Well, no, not necessarily. If a deity reveals itself to me personally, then I will have no choice but to Believe. And as to mockery, oh now…I mock less here than I do elsewhere, I assure you. Levity and satire have their place, and I do not mind playing the Fool. I really am an Innocent in some ways, or perhaps a Savage, which gives me some small license in observation of you who have been shown that wonderful Truth, I should hope.

I meant no proclamation, since I honestly do not know what is meant by the Faithful when they talk about ‘invincible ignorance’…but from all I can determine, I fit the shoe.

And I too have a strong and rather sophisticated sense of right and wrong, just for your information.

 

[FrankLawrence]

“Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words–go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet. Amen, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. “
-Matthew 10:14-15

Mark 6:11 and Luke 10:10-12 are similar.

QUOTE]

Although I may be getting off topic, and a split thread may be required, were the Apostles actually preaching the Gospel at the time mentioned in the aforementioned Scriptures? Keep in mind, this was prior to the crucifixion and resurrection. This was prior to the walk on the road to Emmaus, where Jesus illuminated the Old Testament prophesies. What were the Apostles actually preaching at this time? Was it of a John the Baptist nature, calling people to repentance? I don’t think they could have been preaching the “Gospel” per se, because at that time, the Apostles didn’t seem to even understand that Jesus had to suffer and die for the forgiveness of their sins.

 

[Keikiolu]

In reply:

Yes, I am ignorant, in that I have no concept of what it apparently is to Believe in anything supernatural.

Your logic hinges on the word “supernatural”. You simply believe that there IS NO supernatural (realm), which is not a lack of belief but an overiding belief that displaces a belief in the supernatural.

You aren’t “ignorant” of the belief in the supernatural, you are “cognisant” of the supernatural but (possibly utterly) reject it.

Invincible? Well, no, not necessarily. If a deity reveals itself to me personally, then I will have no choice but to Believe.

Belief in not contingent on proof. Since there is NO proof of God, such that anyone exposed to it is FORCED to believe in Him, your “required condition” (proof of God) is an impossibility, therefore that CAN’T be a requirement of belief in God.

Belief is an act of free will, which comes BEFORE having a “proof” for it.

That’s the puzzle. The only way to GET proof of God is to first believe in Him.

The nice thing is that there is no “penalty” for freely willing to believe in Him, and if no sufficient “proof” appears for you of His existence, not believing in Him, from the “totally unbelieving” point of view

Of course, in reality, that is rejecting Him, which potentially “damns you”, contingent on your actions and God’s will, but what do you care since you don’t believe in that “damnation” stuff anyway?

And as to mockery, oh now…I mock less here than I do elsewhere, I assure you. Levity and satire have their place, and I do not mind playing the Fool. I really am an Innocent in some ways, or perhaps a Savage, which gives me some small license in observation of you who have been shown that wonderful Truth, I should hope.

I’m a savage too,… and LOVE satire and foolery. Those very qualities, “savage innocence” and a well developed taste for mocking and provocation, drove me into becoming a Christian, and specifically a Catholic.

You’re on your way…!

I meant no proclamation, since I honestly do not know what is meant by the Faithful when they talk about ‘invincible ignorance’…but from all I can determine, I fit the shoe.

No. You don’t fit it, because you kow where to look for the truth, which you can’t “unlearn”.

And I too have a strong and rather sophisticated sense of right and wrong, just for your information.

That may “save” you yet, then…!

Best to you, Snidely Whiplash…! What HAVE you done with Nel…!?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Acts 3:17
"Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders.

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Ephesians 4:18
They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.

1 Timothy 1:13
Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man,** I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.**