Inviting atheists to the faith

[DarkLight]

They are disadvantaged because they choose to be. No one in the Western world lacks access to the Good News of Christ. They have heard it, and chosen to reject, and often ridicule it.

All we can do is to continue to speak the Truth of Christ, and help those willing to be helped. How do you “walk with him on his journey” if his journey is one of materialism, and hedonism, and idolatry?

God Bless

Are you sure of that?

I’ll give you an example of my own journey:

I was raised evangelical protestant. One of their key tenents is the literal interpretation of the Bible, which alone is the ground for Christian faith. This was, as far as I knew, what the Good News of Christ required. I discovered that this led to very inconsistent results and concluded that Christianity must not be true. I believed at the time that Catholics also held to a literal interpretation and the only groups that did not were modern liberals. This and some other arguments (notably the problem of evil) led me to become an atheist. I also believed, as I had been taught, that Christians had to believe all non-Christians were bad selfish people, no matter how much as an atheist I did for others. I believed a real Christian could never associate with anyone outside the faith except for evangelism, because that would be a failure to keep yourself pure.

My own journey back was in large part realizing that what was presented by evangelical protestants as real Christianity was not the only way. But these are in our culture very often the loudest voices. I am not citing teachings of a fringe group - I am citing teachings that are very common among mainstream evangelicals. And they are teachings that do not hold up to intellectual scrutiny.

 

[QuestingKnight]

What would count as proof, for an atheist? The Lord Jesus Christ turning up on demand in a laboratory in Imperial College, London, at 2.30pm on a Thursday? And then again on Friday, because reproducibility is important for scientific validation?

They don’t seem to posit that, if there are beings superior to men in the Universe, there’s probably one who is superior to all. And such a being is likely to behave in a way we don’t understand, in the same way a dog doesn’t totally comprehend what a man is; The man is mysterious to the dog and God is mysterious to man.

I mention death as a starting point and also accounts of survival of life after death, because the first is unarguable and the second, persistent.

I speak plainly to people who talk about ‘spirituality’ because one has to penetrate the fog of their thinking. They have comforting ideas which won’t do them a jot of good , upon the death of the body. That’s the reality. Note: I am not rude. I find that people seem pleased that someone will try to genially convince them without parroting dogma and referencing the Bible exclusively.

I have an advantage; my spiritual forebears in the Church have thought about the sophomoric arguments atheists are likely to use and also have had direct experience of Him who we believe in. For them, there was/is no argument; suchlike is for children.

 

[gracepoole]

I mention death as a starting point and also accounts of survival of life after death, because the first is unarguable and the second, persistent.

I speak plainly to people who talk about ‘spirituality’ because one has to penetrate the fog of their thinking. They have comforting ideas which won’t do them a jot of good , upon the death of the body. That’s the reality.

I think there’s a basic misunderstanding of atheists here. If anything, they’ll likely claim that believers have “comforting ideas” and that in contrast, they’re looking death and the absence of an afterlife square in the face.

 

[4elise]

All I can say to this is that I am sure glad the people who spoke to me as an atheist didn’t take your attitude. I would have walked away having confirmed my belief that Christians were just selfish people who thought everyone not like them was stupid and evil.

I thank God for those who reached out to you and I thank God for you.

I believe my ‘job’ is to strive to serve others with love, live my own faith joyfully, and when possible - share where / Who —the motivation for this service and love comes from -

The non believers I’ve spoken to have often had a negative interaction once or over a life time with a person ‘of faith’ - I believe the person(s) who ‘put off’ someone may have the burden of responsibility in this - but then I believe / count on / share with others / my faith in a merciful, loving God - who loves us all - the faithful and non believers alike - and who wants us all to be united with Him forever.

So for me the first and most important thing I can do is pray that I may be a reflection of God’s love. Pray that I will not ‘get in the way’ of Gods Grace. Pray for atheists that their hearts be open, that intellectual pride not be a hindrance, and for all of us who are people ‘of faith’ who interact with them that we will be a reflection of God who loves them.

I have come to this position over a lifetime - and because of people like a woman I know - whose experience of the ‘faithful’ has been terrible, judgmental, and certainly not loving - She is an atheist. She gives of herself, not out of fear of hell or looking to a reward of heaven - she does this because she believes it is the right thing to do. I have always thought / felt / believed — that if she should die before she has embraced faith she will be rewarded for a loving life - not punished for failing to accept a belief that she has not been able to — and that she is in for a tremendous surprise as she is embraced with the source of all Light and Love. All that being said - I also believe it is my continued responsibility to serve as a witness to the WHY for me - and find a way to ‘invite’ that does not contribute to those who have pushed her (and others) away.

I pray:

God who is LOVE allow my words and actions be a reflection of you - please hold my words, or stop my actions if they would do anything to move people away from you. I pray for your mercy for the times I have failed to live as a witness to your LOVE - Amen

 

[LibralAteoJesus]

I thank God for those who reached out to you and I thank God for you.

I believe my ‘job’ is to strive to serve others with love, live my own faith joyfully, and when possible - share where / Who —the motivation for this service and love comes from -

The non believers I’ve spoken to have often had a negative interaction once or over a life time with a person ‘of faith’ - I believe the person(s) who ‘put off’ someone may have the burden of responsibility in this - but then I believe / count on / share with others / my faith in a merciful, loving God - who loves us all - the faithful and non believers alike - and who wants us all to be united with Him forever.

So for me the first and most important thing I can do is pray that I may be a reflection of God’s love. Pray that I will not ‘get in the way’ of Gods Grace. Pray for atheists that their hearts be open, that intellectual pride not be a hindrance, and for all of us who are people ‘of faith’ who interact with them that we will be a reflection of God who loves them.

I have come to this position over a lifetime - and because of people like a woman I know - whose experience of the ‘faithful’ has been terrible, judgmental, and certainly not loving - She is an atheist. She gives of herself, not out of fear of hell or looking to a reward of heaven - she does this because she believes it is the right thing to do. I have always thought / felt / believed — that if she should die before she has embraced faith she will be rewarded for a loving life - not punished for failing to accept a belief that she has not been able to — and that she is in for a tremendous surprise as she is embraced with the source of all Light and Love. All that being said - I also believe it is my continued responsibility to serve as a witness to the WHY for me - and find a way to ‘invite’ that does not contribute to those who have pushed her (and others) away.

I pray:

God who is LOVE allow my words and actions be a reflection of you - please hold my words, or stop my actions if they would do anything to move people away from you. I pray for your mercy for the times I have failed to live as a witness to your LOVE - Amen

Evil religious people have a little to nothing to do with why people are atheist.

 

[bilop]

Are you sure of that?

I’ll give you an example of my own journey:

I was raised evangelical protestant. One of their key tenents is the literal interpretation of the Bible, which alone is the ground for Christian faith. This was, as far as I knew, what the Good News of Christ required. I discovered that this led to very inconsistent results and concluded that Christianity must not be true. I believed at the time that Catholics also held to a literal interpretation and the only groups that did not were modern liberals. This and some other arguments (notably the problem of evil) led me to become an atheist. I also believed, as I had been taught, that Christians had to believe all non-Christians were bad selfish people, no matter how much as an atheist I did for others. I believed a real Christian could never associate with anyone outside the faith except for evangelism, because that would be a failure to keep yourself pure.

My own journey back was in large part realizing that what was presented by evangelical protestants as real Christianity was not the only way. But these are in our culture very often the loudest voices. I am not citing teachings of a fringe group - I am citing teachings that are very common among mainstream evangelicals. And they are teachings that do not hold up to intellectual scrutiny.

But you heard about Christ, and when you started looking, were able to find the truth about what the Church taught? Correct?

God Bless

 

[QuestingKnight]

Perhaps my earlier advice is best taken – stop using language (aka stop talking) with atheists. Perhaps this method should be most encouraged when someone’s basic dignity is called into question (in contrast to, say, the CCC).

That’s just nonsensical. Good job St. Dominic didn’t do this.

Atheists don’t have dignity, in a sense that is meaningful here. They’re wrong. They’re much more likely to go to Hell. They can be a cause of error to others. That some/many atheists are very nice people does not mean we should pander to them. I call that The Anglican Mistake: confusing niceness with Christianity.

You can be a very nice person yet have done 1 evil thing which you know is horrid in the eyes of God, and that’s it for you.

 

[gracepoole]

That’s just nonsensical. Good job St. Dominic didn’t do this.

Atheists don’t have dignity, in a sense that is meaningful here. They’re wrong. They’re much more likely to go to Hell. They can be a cause of error to others. That some/many atheists are very nice people does not mean we should pander to them. I call that The Anglican Mistake: confusing niceness with Christianity.

You can be a very nice person yet have done 1 evil thing which you know is horrid in the eyes of God, and that’s it for you.

Please reread the Catechism – there’s no distinction within between “meaningful” dignity and any other sort:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1.htm

 

[clem456]

The secular world around us is packed full of atheists, some of them actively hostile to us, some of them apathetic towards us, some of them seeing us as well-meaning but misguided.

We are called to spread the Good News and evangelise, but how do we evangelise atheists? Talking about Scripture, Heaven and Hell, Church teachings, or even God to an atheist would seem to be pointless, as he’s likely to just think we’re talking superstitious mumbo-jumbo, close his ears and walk away.

So how do we reach these people in a way that will engage them and make them willing to listen, and put them on a path that will eventually lead them to Heaven? I’d be interested to hear people’s views on this.

Treat them with kindness and respect. Listen to them. Learn from them. Work with them at our jobs. Have lunch with them. Find out what we have in common. Build on that.

 

[DarkLight]

But you heard about Christ, and when you started looking, were able to find the truth about what the Church taught? Correct?

God Bless

I’d known about Christ all my life. It took more than that, because there were so many competing “Christs” I could not find the true one on my own.

 

[Brendan_64]

Treat them with kindness and respect. Listen to them. Learn from them. Work with them at our jobs. Have lunch with them. Find out what we have in common. Build on that.

That is good advice. Listen and learn from them, I like that. We ought not to be so arrogant as to think that we have all the answers. Atheists, and others will have things that we can learn from them. They, like us, are just human beings travelling our own life journeys, trying to make sense of things.

 

[MorEphrem]

That’s just nonsensical. Good job St. Dominic didn’t do this.

Atheists don’t have dignity, in a sense that is meaningful here. They’re wrong. They’re much more likely to go to Hell. They can be a cause of error to others. That some/many atheists are very nice people does not mean we should pander to them. I call that The Anglican Mistake: confusing niceness with Christianity.

You can be a very nice person yet have done 1 evil thing which you know is horrid in the eyes of God, and that’s it for you.

It seems you’re a terribly catechized Jansenist. If you had read anything I wrote in my last post I had mentioned the dignity God gives is not contingent upon actions - yes, atheists are wrong and they are at a much greater disadvantage to go to hell. That has nothing to do with the formation of their being in the image and likeness of God.

With that I will withdraw from this thread and pray for your understanding of the faith.

 

[QuestingKnight]

I had an idea: offer to buy their souls from them.

$10 each. If they don’t think they have one, you’ve made a sale and they’ve got a handy $10 bucks. Just get them to sign on the dotted line.

If they do think they have one or are just a teensy bit worried …

 

[4elise]

Evil religious people have a little to nothing to do with why people are atheist.

If people witness people living contradictory lives - preaching one thing and living in another way - it is not that I am saying these people are evil, but have some responsibility for failing to witness to others - and I believe will need to answer for this because we are all responsible for each other.

When people witness a Church that cares for others, that LIVES a belief that we are to be Christ in the world today - it attracts not repels - when we as individual live our own faith we have opportunities to share WHY we do what we do and WHO we follow.

This is why our Holy Father, Pope Frances is attracting so many - he is sharing what matters - not putting aside any important belief but putting LOVE at the front of the discussion === where it belongs. We are so fortunate to be living in these times and have so many opportunities because of this to continue the discussion with others - but we have to be sure we have the message right and that the message isn’t contradictory to how WE live…

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I personally might approach it from a staring point of concepts such as morality and truth. I have never yet come across a completely immoral atheist, they all seem to have an inherent grasp of the need for basic moral action and a respect for truth. But where do these concepts come from? There is no physical, scientific basis for morality or truth, so why do you believe that such concepts exist?

These are very good starting points. My husband is an atheist and we recently had a long discussion about morality. I argued that morality must be objective and universal, or else it is mere personal opinion. Sometimes we find this personal opinion on a wider scale, such as social norms that have a taken for granted status, but they are not examples of universal, objective truths. He, on the other hand, argued that people can come up with their own morality.

I argued against this idea to its logical conclusion and he got upset: told me that I will not plug the holes in his system with my religion. I think that was a good result - to get him to admit that his system has huge, gaping holes and a lot of inconsistency. My husband is not exactly seeking the road to enlightenment, but at least he sees very clearly that my system makes sense and that there is a well though out answer to everything, while his own system is all over the place.

I suspect that this is as good as it gets when evangelising (some) atheists. Only God can convert them, and we must pray that their minds and hearts are open to His truth at the moment when they are ready for it.

 

[LibralAteoJesus]

If people witness people living contradictory lives - preaching one thing and living in another way - it is not that I am saying these people are evil, but have some responsibility for failing to witness to others - and I believe will need to answer for this because we are all responsible for each other.

When people witness a Church that cares for others, that LIVES a belief that we are to be Christ in the world today - it attracts not repels - when we as individual live our own faith we have opportunities to share WHY we do what we do and WHO we follow.

This is why our Holy Father, Pope Frances is attracting so many - he is sharing what matters - not putting aside any important belief but putting LOVE at the front of the discussion === where it belongs. We are so fortunate to be living in these times and have so many opportunities because of this to continue the discussion with others - but we have to be sure we have the message right and that the message isn’t contradictory to how WE live…

This behaviour may attract the majority of non Catholics for peace and openess but very few would change their beliefs only because the pope or other believers are being good, but it could however make people less angry or fanatical about their beliefs or disbeliefs.

 

[Joseph73]

I agree with those who say, meet them where they are at. They may make the full journey to Catholicism in their lifetime, or they may only make it to a basic belief in God, but the important thing is that they are always moving in the direction that is closer to God.

 

[DarkLight]

Upon further reflection…I think the problem in this day and age is not a lack of information, but a surfeit of information. It is not that our modern atheists have not heard of Christ - it’s that they’ve heard of so very many “Christs” the real one can easily be lost in the shuffle. And the non-believer walks away thinking he has rejected so many different Christs, how can there be any real one?

That was my experience - I had very many people telling me who Christ was. Trouble was there was no agreement. Some of the Christs were dark and hateful. Some were simply uncaring. Some were so permissive they might as well not be anything. It is hard to find the truth when so many are saying different things.

This is something I’ve seen, commonly. I ask an atheist - they say things like “How can you believe in a literal seven-day creation?” or “How can you believe that anyone who hasn’t heard about Jesus is going to hell?” These are not our beliefs, but they are the beliefs that they have been told are Christian, and it leads them to reject Christianity.