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Irish child sexual abuse survivors’ group critical of Pope's letter: "Meaningless apologies"
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Shakuhachi
Guest
What “concrete” steps in how to successfully combat the issue of clerical abuse are people looking for?
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Jezra
Guest
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth = wailing and gnashing of teeth?
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
all survivor groups are critical of the letter.
words, too little too late.
words, too little too late.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Probably a mass execution or a giant payout of money or the disbanding of the Catholic Church. Or all three.
Seriously, people who are upset will likely never be satisfied. Their outrage is understandable, but it’s not fixable, so we will need to just do what we can and move on.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Yes, I agree on the meaningless apologies. It feels superficial, big on the dramatics. I will say some bishops and priests have really spoken very movingly though. Not to say I think the Church will change or really do anything differently. The past is the past. Sigh, pray, fast. Repeat.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Shakuhachi . . .
Basically it involves the Bishops to quit exempting themselves from their own Dallas Charter, and
extend the zero-tolerance to sexual abuse and harassment to adult victims,
including protecting our seminarians and priests
who have ALSO been victimized
at the hands of some predator bishops (McCarrick and those silent about McCarrick are the obvious examples for starters).
How do we as a Church carry this out?
Transparency
A public accounting of all the arrest records of the Bishops themselves ( not mere “police records” they can too easily be “expunged” but “arrest records”) over the last several decades need to be evaluated.
ANY payouts of any kind for ANY reason that have occurred, need to be transparently brought to light in the public sphere (we have already seen almost a half-a-million-dollar payout from a Bishop issue that was NOT electively brought to light in our country).
In addition a public statement releasing all people (including priests) from any and all non-disclosure agreements need to be undertaken.
An Investigation
An INQUISITION (or Reverse Inquisition) is needed here to investigate our Churchmen who are responsible not only for turning a blind eye to abuse of boys (and girls etc.) but we ALSO need a thorough evaluation of the allegations of these men who are responsible for . . .
. . . sexually abusing and harassing our Catholic priests and seminarians!
According to the Vatican such an inquiry will need . . .
This inquiry will need to have
This may incluse loss of their position and or jail.
And Vatican Involvement by the Pope Directly
We need the help of the Holy Father to carry this out.
I can’t speak for others, but what I am looking for echoes many of our Bishops who have spoken out bravely.
Basically it involves the Bishops to quit exempting themselves from their own Dallas Charter, and
extend the zero-tolerance to sexual abuse and harassment to adult victims,
including protecting our seminarians and priests
who have ALSO been victimized
at the hands of some predator bishops (McCarrick and those silent about McCarrick are the obvious examples for starters).
How do we as a Church carry this out?
Transparency
A public accounting of all the arrest records of the Bishops themselves ( not mere “police records” they can too easily be “expunged” but “arrest records”) over the last several decades need to be evaluated.
ANY payouts of any kind for ANY reason that have occurred, need to be transparently brought to light in the public sphere (we have already seen almost a half-a-million-dollar payout from a Bishop issue that was NOT electively brought to light in our country).
In addition a public statement releasing all people (including priests) from any and all non-disclosure agreements need to be undertaken.
An Investigation
An INQUISITION (or Reverse Inquisition) is needed here to investigate our Churchmen who are responsible not only for turning a blind eye to abuse of boys (and girls etc.) but we ALSO need a thorough evaluation of the allegations of these men who are responsible for . . .
. . . sexually abusing and harassing our Catholic priests and seminarians!
According to the Vatican such an inquiry will need . . .
This inquiry will need to have
- proper independence
- sufficient authority
- substantial leadership by laity
This may incluse loss of their position and or jail.
And Vatican Involvement by the Pope Directly
We need the help of the Holy Father to carry this out.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
Yeah, good luck with that
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
I thought the pope’s letter was heartfelt. But it was simply a letter to the people. I’m not sure why people are treating it like it was being proposed as a “solution” to something. It was a nice letter, it is what it is. These victims groups have got to be careful, they are starting to come across as untouchable, holier than thou bullies.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
Now your’e talking. But I would avoid the term"Inquisition". Too much baggage.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Cathoholic . . .
This inquiry will need to have
I just took these ideas directly from the Vatican.
The Pope is on the victims’ side-L'Osservatore Romano Catholic News
This inquiry will need to have
- proper independence
- sufficient authority
- substantial leadership by laity
Thanks. I wish I could take credit for these ideas (but I can’t).
I just took these ideas directly from the Vatican.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Shakuhachi . . .
But since it immediately calls the reader to attention, I have decided to use it personally despite it sometimes provoking erroneous ideas in people’s minds.
This helps two ways.
I am just following one of my apologist-heros, Jimmy Akin when Akin back in 1998 basically said, “Common guys. The idea of an “Inquistion” per se, is not necessarily a bad thing. Here is a Biblical precedent with Moses.”
Jimmy Akin has implicitly pointed out an “inquisition” is not a swear word.
In the New Covenant era, we have the graces to rise above the need for “stoning” perpetrators.
But we are still called to inquire and root out purveyors of crime in ways consistent with the Gospel and the graces we receive from Christ’s work on Calvary. Even when potential criminals are from the Episcopacy.
That is the message we are now getting from the Holy Father.
Since it would be laity “Inquisitioning Bishops” it could be called a “Reverse Inquisition”. (Although admittedly, there are some strict differences so “reverse” is used in a general sense here).
Such a “Reverse Inquisition” would NEED the Pope’s blessing to be valid (or it could merely be a
secular criminal investigation, but I think this would work much better with the Pope’s leadership.
We can either clean out our own house, or God will use
the proverbial “Amalekites” (secular society) to do so.
Let’s get this done without the “Amalekites” doing it for us. Or at least without secular forces until the stage when the investigation is adequate to have ancillary secular help with the call for this coming from the Holy Father at the proper time.)
The Church will again rise out of the proverbial ashes . . . Stronger.
I thought of that too.
But since it immediately calls the reader to attention, I have decided to use it personally despite it sometimes provoking erroneous ideas in people’s minds.
This helps two ways.
- Provides the idea for an “investigation”.
- Re-captures a highjacked valid concept. An “inquisition”.
I am just following one of my apologist-heros, Jimmy Akin when Akin back in 1998 basically said, “Common guys. The idea of an “Inquistion” per se, is not necessarily a bad thing. Here is a Biblical precedent with Moses.”
Jimmy Akin has implicitly pointed out an “inquisition” is not a swear word.
In the New Covenant era, we have the graces to rise above the need for “stoning” perpetrators.
But we are still called to inquire and root out purveyors of crime in ways consistent with the Gospel and the graces we receive from Christ’s work on Calvary. Even when potential criminals are from the Episcopacy.
That is the message we are now getting from the Holy Father.
Since it would be laity “Inquisitioning Bishops” it could be called a “Reverse Inquisition”. (Although admittedly, there are some strict differences so “reverse” is used in a general sense here).
Such a “Reverse Inquisition” would NEED the Pope’s blessing to be valid (or it could merely be a
secular criminal investigation, but I think this would work much better with the Pope’s leadership.
We can either clean out our own house, or God will use
the proverbial “Amalekites” (secular society) to do so.
Let’s get this done without the “Amalekites” doing it for us. Or at least without secular forces until the stage when the investigation is adequate to have ancillary secular help with the call for this coming from the Holy Father at the proper time.)
The Church will again rise out of the proverbial ashes . . . Stronger.
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