Irish Vocations

[NPC]

The vocations crisis in Ireland seems finally to have been brought into focus, according to the Irish Catholic newspaper. The newly ordained Bishop of Ossory, Seamus Freeman, has said that a priority for him will be vocations. The Diocese of Ossory has not had a vocation to the priesthood in 14 years, so it will be at least another 7 years before the diocese ordains a new priest. Bishop Freeman said that we need to look at real solutions to the crisis - some people in Ireland think that clustering parishes or ‘importing’ priests from Africa or Poland is the solution, but the bishop has said that only vocations from our own parishes will truly solve the crisis.

There is great strain on priests in the Irish Church because of the shortage of new vocations - in the Dublin Archdiocese the average age of diocesan clergy is 62. One priest, writing in the newspaper, said that in his first parish, there was a parish priest and 4 curates! Now parishes are extremely lucky if they have a curate.

As I see it, the Catholic Church in Ireland is not being proactive enough in promoting vocations - most diocesan websites have a section on vocations, but I doubt that most young people know about these. I think one major way in which vocations can be promoted is through the piety of their priests i.e. setting a good example at the celebration of Mass and other sacraments.

However, I have heard that dioceses in the U.S. have actually advertised outside of the Church setting to encourage men to consider priesthood. Has your diocese done anything innovative to encourage vocations, and has it been successful? Are there any U.S. dioceses which are going against the current trend in vocations, and if so, why is this?

 

[Sr_Sally]

I just heard on Sunday that every parish in Ireland now has some time for Adoration every week. Some are perpetual, but many are just during daylight hours, or once a week. That is a wonderful thing and I’m sure it will help spur vocations. We heard this because our parish recently went from one day of Adoration a week to daily, during daylight, Adoration in a newly opened chapel for this purpose.

Since our pastor is one of the priests who was ‘imported’ here from Ireland many years ago when Ireland supplied priests to the world, we pray every Sunday for vocations, both here and in Ireland.

 

[NPC]

I just heard on Sunday that every parish in Ireland now has some time for Adoration every week. Some are perpetual, but many are just during daylight hours, or once a week. That is a wonderful thing and I’m sure it will help spur vocations. We heard this because our parish recently went from one day of Adoration a week to daily, during daylight, Adoration in a newly opened chapel for this purpose.

Since our pastor is one of the priests who was ‘imported’ here from Ireland many years ago when Ireland supplied priests to the world, we pray every Sunday for vocations, both here and in Ireland.

You are indeed right, Sr Sally - I have noticed a great increase in the number of parishes offering Eucharistic adoration here in Ireland, and it is certainly growing in popularity. I know of one parish in my diocese where they created an adoration chapel, and now, only a few weeks later, adoration sessions are so packed that exposition of the Blessed Sacrament has been returned to the main altar of the church! It is great to see, and as you say, this has the potential to spur vocations. However, my concern is that, in the present time when few young people are attending Mass, the urgent message for vocations is only reaching the few who do attend Mass. The Church, it seems to me, needs to somehow reach out beyond their usual flock, as undoubtedly some young people who don’t currently partake in the sacraments could potentially, with the right encouragement and guidance, be priests and religious in the future… I am thinking of our patron saint, Patrick, here - in his writings he says that he was a delinquent who had abandoned God in his youth, and yet he became a great bishop!..So, if resources are put in the right places, anything can happen!!

 

[Pious_Mat]

You think Ireland has a problem with vocations? Come to Canada.

Of the 365 families registered at my parish, I am the only teenager who regularly attends Mass, and I don’t think there are any people my age other than myself contemplating the priesthood anywhere in town.

Some of the problems here are that the powers that be don’t seem to want vocations. No vocations director, no advertisement, no programs for young men…nothing. And I’m willing to bet the same thing is happening in Ireland.

I also think that the attitude that foreign priests aren’t part of the solution is naive, and in a way, rather bigoted. I deal with this regularly, as my Bishop also takes this attitude. I’ll take a priest so long as he’s a Holy man, regardless of where he’s from. Also, since vocatins are booming in places like Africa, perhaps someone from Africa might be able to bring that fired-up attitude, or maybe even the effective methods to harvest vocations, to places like Ireland and Canada.

What’s sad is that there are many young men out there who would have grown up to be priests had not secular society, unsupportive parents, and indifferent Church administrators squeezed their vocation out of them.

 

[freudmacher]

I also think that the attitude that foreign priests aren’t part of the solution is naive, and in a way, rather bigoted. I deal with this regularly, as my Bishop also takes this attitude. I’ll take a priest so long as he’s a Holy man, regardless of where he’s from.

I will also would like any priest as long as he is a Holy Man too, but I don’t think it is part of the solution.

My parish priest has been praying, as he put it, for there to be more local vocations for the local church. He is from Mexico and sees a big problem with foreign priests. (Remember I am only telling you what he said) He says that without knowing the local customs and english as a second language he his not able to help people as much as he hoped for. He says he misses a lot of what is being told to him and what is going on.

Bringing in foreign priest will only help with having another priest, but I don’t see how it would help with vocations at all.

 

[NPC]

You think Ireland has a problem with vocations? Come to Canada.

Of course I don’t really know what the situation on vocations is in Canada, but it is a general trend in the Western world that there are currently few vocations to religious life. I can only comment on the situation in Ireland, and the fact is that until the 1990’s, Ireland’s population was about 95% Catholic - as it had been for hundreds of years. This was despite the fact that since the Reformation there was severe persecution of Catholics by the colonisers - ie. civil and political rights, and even the right to worship in public. So the Catholic ethos was firmly ingrained in Irish people & it was a great honour to have a priest in the family. Having said this, while there was a huge number of vocations in Ireland up to 1970, I am sure many of these entered the priesthood for the wrong reasons because they were living in a time when being a priest in Ireland meant amazing (too much at times) power and authority- back then you didn’t have to be the archbishop to wield power over political powers, a priest had such power…

Since the 1990’s, there has been serious change in Irish society. Most people are better off than they were due to Ireland having one of the strongest economies in the world and we have a more diverse society - these are good things in themselves, but there have been prices to pay of course. One such price is the decline in the practice of faith (this goes for the Anglican Church of Ireland and other faiths too)- not that I’m just blaming the economy for this!

So, for the first time in Irish history, for young people the world is their oyster - they can do anything, and unfortunately a priestly vocation is not seen as an option in the new Ireland. I don’t have exact statistics, but I think in 2006, 26 new seminarians began studies at the Pontifical University (St. Patrick’s) in Maynooth, and the total number of students was around 75. There seems to have been a slight increase in vocations, but deaths are still far outnumbering ordinations. I think Ireland did have a worse crisis before, but it was probably during the Famine in the 1840’s, so death and disease was probably the reason for this… If anyone is interested, the Catholic Communications Office of Ireland at www.catholiccommunications.ie has links to all Irish dioceses where you can see what they are doing in relation to vocations. However, my initial point still remains - such a resource is probably only reaching out to those who already attend Mass & other sacraments, but who could, potentially, be fit for religious life.

As Freudmacher and Pious Mat said, I too would accept an ‘imported’ priest if he was a holy man, but we can’t rely on this indefinitely. There are only so many priests that other countries can give - Africa didn’t always have booming vocations, Missionaries gave them a helping hand first, but they then had to create vocations on home soil, and this is the best long-term solution for us… So are there dioceses out there (in the N. America especially) which have managed to turn the tide on falling vocations, and how have they done this?

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Some of the problems here are that the powers that be don’t seem to want vocations. No vocations director, no advertisement, no programs for young men…nothing.

No “Seem” about it. Rather plainly, they just don’t want them.

Several years ago when I was probably about 19, another Catholic fella and I were doing some volunteer work with a Catholic charity at a Church… The priest of the parish stopped on over to say hello, (he explained he was a priest so we knew - he was just in dress pants and an oxford shirt with a sweater)…

He talked to us about the work we were doing very casually for maybe 5 minutes, small talk really.

Much later on we would learn Fr X was the vocations director. Kinda explained why the diocese had three seminarians right there.

Fr. X has two Catholic men (we had mentioned what parishes we belonged to) spending a saturday afternoon volunteering around a church and he doesn’t slip into the conversation "You fellas ever think about the priesthood?"

You get what you ask for and cultivate.

 

[NPC]

I’ve seen this response before - that our bishops simply don’t want the vocations… why do you think this is? We all know the Church depends on ordinations to the priesthood for the sacraments, especially the Mass which is at the centre of the Church’s life. Is there a sort of elitist complex among some priests and bishops, that with fewer vocations the ‘club’ is becoming more and more exclusive? If it is, then they need to check-out their egos and bring Christ back to the centre and then they’ll have to realise the importance of vocations…

As far as I’m aware, all dioceses in Ireland (and probably around the world) have vocations directors. However, as I see it, in my diocese at least, the title ‘Director of Vocations’ is just that - a title. I don’t see the director actively promoting vocations - in my opinion he should be visiting schools and letting students know that the priesthood is a worthwhile vocation (the career guidance teachers in our schools certainly aren’t going to do this!). My brother, who’s 13, attends the Diocesan College, and its primary mission is supposed to be to promote and foster vocations to the priesthood. I honestly wouldn’t hold my breath to hear of vocations promotion at the school - I just don’t believe it will happen. I attended a secondary school which was run by a reiligious order of Brothers, and similarly, priesthood was never mentioned as a real option, nor was a vocation to their brotherhood… The vocations directors should be called ‘vocations promoters’ and bishops should make sure these priests (and indeed all their priests) are actively promoting vocations by advertising, visiting schools and churches, etc…

 

[katy]

I understand that some dioceses have folks in vocations departments who want to promote married men/women in the priesthood and therefore do what they can to prevent vocations otherwise.

 

[IrishJoe]

I just heard on Sunday that every parish in Ireland now has some time for Adoration every week. Some are perpetual, but many are just during daylight hours, or once a week. That is a wonderful thing and I’m sure it will help spur vocations. We heard this because our parish recently went from one day of Adoration a week to daily, during daylight, Adoration in a newly opened chapel for this purpose.

Not my home parish as far as I know…

As far as I’m aware, all dioceses in Ireland (and probably around the world) have vocations directors. However, as I see it, in my diocese at least, the title ‘Director of Vocations’ is just that - a title. I don’t see the director actively promoting vocations - in my opinion he should be visiting schools and letting students know that the priesthood is a worthwhile vocation (the career guidance teachers in our schools certainly aren’t going to do this!)

In my uni careers were rubbish. I mentioned that religous life is also an option for me. When the sheet came back with information and what to follow up on it wasn’t there. You truely are on your own and cannot get unbiased help.
Thankfully there was a really holy family praying for me and then I found a girlfriend so I hope that’s really my vocation.
However in all fairness one has to consider about how many young men actually attend mass.
Then how many actually are ‘tradtional’. I know I’m not. And I sense an eliteist vibe (real or imagined I dont know) that if you’re not traditional then you’re not 100% catholic.
Add to this lay people saying that there are abuses in mass and acting as if they know better and what looks to be an imploding church at war with itself.
Add to that irish history of priests and their reputation in general
Add to THAT the economy and general materialism and greed
Add to THAT AGAIN the fact that religous life is not seen to be a legitimate option for many and that with smaller families parents want kids to get jobs not go off the the priesthood
and there may be some reasons why.

Tho as I said to my Archbishop… we can import priests, we cannot import Irish Catholics.

On top of all of that add together some priest who visited our school but didn’t actually give any good reasons for joining the priesthood.

Simply put I think people are apathetic. Its the churches problem not theres. Addionally you have to trust the church totally as your life is in their hands. Personally I don’t trust the church that much, its made of people and people are fallable. Now consider if I was a non Catholic or non practising and then your chance of getting vocations is slim to none.

 

[wifrost]

I heard that the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal franciscanfriars.com/ set up shop in Ireland recently at request of a Bishop there. Wherever these guys (and gals) go positive things seem to happen.

 

[IrishJoe]

Yes they are great guys alright. So hopefully there will be an increase.

 

[Brendan]

You think Ireland has a problem with vocations? Come to Canada…

I would have to agree there. My wife is from Quebec, and when we go back there to visit the in-laws. If our children were not with us, we would be the youngest people at Mass. Her cousins have no intrest in the Church, except to have their kids baptized or a funeral. Most of them haven’t even bothered with marriage.

In Ireland ( my parents are from Sligo and Mayo.) is still different I do see good Church attendance in their home parishes, and a definate rise in Eucharistic Adoration. I have heard that this is less so in the Dublin area, but I have no direct experience there.

The problem there, as I see it, is Ireland’s economic sucess. A greater intrest in material goods vs. spiritual ones.

 

[Bok_iz_nya]

The CFR’s have indeed established a new foundation in Ireland, which is very good news. So has the Institute of the Incarnate Word–just like 3 months ago, I believe. In fact, I heard that they did a popular mission (door-to-door, etc.) last summer or the summer before, and that they had already gotten 3 or 4 Irish vocations before beginning their new foundation! Pray for the Island of Saints!

 

[ASimpleSinner]

The CFR’s have indeed established a new foundation in Ireland, which is very good news. So has the Institute of the Incarnate Word–just like 3 months ago, I believe. In fact, I heard that they did a popular mission (door-to-door, etc.) last summer or the summer before, and that they had already gotten 3 or 4 Irish vocations before beginning their new foundation! Pray for the Island of Saints!

I had read on a blog that the Institute was setting up shop in Erie. I don’t know much about them, except from what I hear, they are doing well with the vocations. So too the Franciscans mentioned.

 

[Madaglan]

Interesting thread and some good insights. Where I’m at in the U.S., there are problems with vocations, but nowhere near the problem that seems to be happening in Canada and Ireland. Where I’m at, teenagers still go with their parents to church, but I think it’s more because of the parents than the teenagers in most cases. Not exactly pertaining directly to the topic, but telling and certainly related: the youth group at the parish I long attended had many members (maybe around 30), but all were female! There was not a single guy in the youth group. I have my personal reasons for believing why this may be, but I will keep that to myself.

 

[katy]

Magdalen, I would be interested in your reasons. If they are off topic, send a PM.

 

[NPC]

Interesting thread and some good insights. Where I’m at in the U.S., there are problems with vocations, but nowhere near the problem that seems to be happening in Canada and Ireland. Where I’m at, teenagers still go with their parents to church, but I think it’s more because of the parents than the teenagers in most cases.

I think it is usually the case that the youngsters are going to Mass because their parents bring them - and while I do think it is right that children should be brought to Mass, at least most people these days go to Mass because they believe they should. My parents have often told me how in Ireland in the 1960’s (and before, presumably) one would be named and shamed by the priest from the pulpit if they had missed Mass the previous week…thanks be to God those days are gone… Although, ironically, vocations in Ireland peaked in the '60’s when so many of our priests in Ireland were blatantly abusing their power in many aspects of Irish life…

While all contributions on this thread have been interesting and most welcome, I don’t think anyone has really answered my original question - has your diocese done anything out of the ordinary to promote vocations, and what has been the outcome of such campaigns?

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by NPC:

I don’t think anyone has really answered my original question - has your diocese done anything out of the ordinary to promote vocations, and what has been the outcome of such campaigns?

The new bishop of the area where I have long lived and only recently moved from, did attempt something a few years ago. I was just getting out of college, so I did not really encounter its fruits. Basically, the bishop began a campaign by which he hired certain people to go to the colleges and universities in the diocese and talk about vocations. The bishop also seems to have placed greater emphasis on teen rallies and so forth. Perhaps this is not extraordinary.

I do not know how effective these measures have been.

 

[Matt510]

While all contributions on this thread have been interesting and most welcome, I don’t think anyone has really answered my original question - has your diocese done anything out of the ordinary to promote vocations, and what has been the outcome of such campaigns?

Whilst not directly answering your question (I hope you’ll excuse me for that ), here are a few personal observations.

I am from Armagh, the Ecclesiatical capital of Ireland. I went to a Catholic primary school, and the Grammar School which sits alongside the Cathedral. An upbringing of complete catholicism, one would think.

Yet, despite the obediance and committment to the faith by my parents, I can’t help but feel that I’ve grown up in a Catholic community which doesn’t really know why it’s Catholic - at least amongst the younger generation. There are young people who attend Mass (although it is certainly an older congregation), but given my experiences at grammar school (a school which apparently prided itself on it’s committment to the faith), I felt spiritually malnurished. Similarly, I feel that that the Church itself had failed to offer sufficient teaching to the people of the parish.

It was only when I reached university that I was finally able to learn about the faith - in an open and voluntary environment, through our chaplain who genuinely knew how to reach out to the student generation and enlighten them in the faith. I shall forever be thankful to him for offering this, and providing catechesis courses and other programmes - an area where I certainly feel my parish has failed.

So, how this relates to the thread. Well, an uneducated youth means a definite difficulty in vocations, and whilst it is certainly a personal committment to the faith that is required, I feel that the Church needs to do much more work with parishioners. Something which I may just contact our new Cardinal with regard to.