Irish Vocations

[katy]

Matt, do you think the deficiencies in the education in the faith in your younger days had to do with the method of teaching? I mean, that as opposed to say youth and immaturity? What was amiss, do you think?

Our diocese has instituted a new seminary in a local college. The head has much experience in college life and has quite a few young men. I hope to live to see them become priests, as they seem to be truly devoted to God and the Church.

 

[NPC]

Whilst not directly answering your question (I hope you’ll excuse me for that ), here are a few personal observations.

I am from Armagh, the Ecclesiatical capital of Ireland. I went to a Catholic primary school, and the Grammar School which sits alongside the Cathedral. An upbringing of complete catholicism, one would think.

Yet, despite the obediance and committment to the faith by my parents, I can’t help but feel that I’ve grown up in a Catholic community which doesn’t really know why it’s Catholic - at least amongst the younger generation. There are young people who attend Mass (although it is certainly an older congregation), but given my experiences at grammar school (a school which apparently prided itself on it’s committment to the faith), I felt spiritually malnurished. Similarly, I feel that that the Church itself had failed to offer sufficient teaching to the people of the parish.

It was only when I reached university that I was finally able to learn about the faith - in an open and voluntary environment, through our chaplain who genuinely knew how to reach out to the student generation and enlighten them in the faith. I shall forever be thankful to him for offering this, and providing catechesis courses and other programmes - an area where I certainly feel my parish has failed.

So, how this relates to the thread. Well, an uneducated youth means a definite difficulty in vocations, and whilst it is certainly a personal committment to the faith that is required, I feel that the Church needs to do much more work with parishioners. Something which I may just contact our new Cardinal with regard to.

Yes, I think I have had much the same experience as you re Religious Instruction - I’m from the Republic, and I was always educated in Catholic schools (there isn’t really much choice in Ireland anyway!!). My secondary education was in a school run by a religious order of brothers. As you say, one would think this means a good education in the Faith, but this was not the case… Of course in religion class we would often talk about moral issues - abortion, violence and soforth - but I don’t recall ever being told why the Church teaches certain basic elements of the Faith. Of course we were always told that we receive the Body of Christ at Communion, but never told the many reasons why we should believe this - there is so much Scriptural evidence and writings of Early Church Fathers, but none of this was mentioned… Core elements of the faith are being ‘sugar-coated’ by many teachers, maybe because they don’t believe them themselves, or afraid that they’ll be unpopular with the students if they delve deep into certain matters… Most of what I know of my faith I have learnt through my own research, which is unfortunate since most young people my age are not very interested in carrying out their own research on religious issues. So thanks for your comments, Matt - I’m in full agreement with you!

Thanks for your message, Madaglan - what you mentioned about the diocese sending people to educational institutions is something that I think all dioceses should be doing… I would like to hear of the results of such campaigns if anyone has any… Such a move by a diocese certainly can’t do any harm as long as those involved in the project are very pious and clearly in love with God.

 

[Matt510]

Matt, do you think the deficiencies in the education in the faith in your younger days had to do with the method of teaching? I mean, that as opposed to say youth and immaturity? What was amiss, do you think?

Our diocese has instituted a new seminary in a local college. The head has much experience in college life and has quite a few young men. I hope to live to see them become priests, as they seem to be truly devoted to God and the Church.

Katy, I think NPC has covered the problems sufficiently in schools in the post above, while in the parish itself, courses or seminars teaching the faith are non-existent as far as I have seen. Grave problems

 

[Matt510]

Yes, I think I have had much the same experience as you re Religious Instruction - I’m from the Republic, and I was always educated in Catholic schools (there isn’t really much choice in Ireland anyway!!). My secondary education was in a school run by a religious order of brothers. As you say, one would think this means a good education in the Faith, but this was not the case… Of course in religion class we would often talk about moral issues - abortion, violence and soforth - but I don’t recall ever being told why the Church teaches certain basic elements of the Faith. Of course we were always told that we receive the Body of Christ at Communion, but never told the many reasons why we should believe this - there is so much Scriptural evidence and writings of Early Church Fathers, but none of this was mentioned… Core elements of the faith are being ‘sugar-coated’ by many teachers, maybe because they don’t believe them themselves, or afraid that they’ll be unpopular with the students if they delve deep into certain matters… Most of what I know of my faith I have learnt through my own research, which is unfortunate since most young people my age are not very interested in carrying out their own research on religious issues. So thanks for your comments, Matt - I’m in full agreement with you!

And thank you also NPC - you’ve reassured me that I haven’t been living in my own little world for the last 20 years - and I’m in complete agreement with ever element of your post! I literally could have typed that myself

Sadly that means that it’s a more widespread problem on the island than I knew. It’s all the more infuriating when you see so many other Christian denominations here embracing their young people, and teaching them their beliefs and the reasons for them. If we could learn one thing from them, it’s perhaps that.

 

[Bok_iz_nya]

While all contributions on this thread have been interesting and most welcome, I don’t think anyone has really answered my original question - has your diocese done anything out of the ordinary to promote vocations, and what has been the outcome of such campaigns?

NPC, I think that the point with regard to the new foundations of the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal and the Institute of the Incarnate Word is that by inviting in these faithful, joyful, dynamic new orders, bishops are indeed doing something unusual to address the vocations problems in their dioceses–that is, these orders don’t only draw vocations to their own congregations (which they certainly do), they help the pastoral needs of the diocese by taking parishes (in the case of the IVE) or establishing friaries (in the case of the CFRs), and even more importantly, they also help to rebuild the Faith and encourage vocations throughout the diocese. Young priests and religious, well-formed, coming from an outside perspective, and drawing on the strength of living in community, can accomplish great things. I think that this last point is key: Part of the trouble is that since most diocesan priests these days are alone, they have little time to devote to ambitious projects and are easily demoralized by criticism, even if they are inclined toward reforming something…

 

[katy]

Of course in religion class we would often talk about moral issues - abortion, violence and soforth - but I don’t recall ever being told why the Church teaches certain basic elements of the Faith. Of course we were always told that we receive the Body of Christ at Communion, but never told the many reasons why we should believe this - there is so much Scriptural evidence and writings of Early Church Fathers, but none of this was mentioned…

This is what my son who is coming back to the Church has told me. I wish I could have helped more, but it is basically my own situation until the Internet and the Catechism came along. It was too late for my kids by then. I trusted the DRE’s to know what they were doing.

 

[NPC]

Bok_iz_nya - to be honest, I haven’t heard much about the Institute of the Incarnate Word, but I do know that the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal are doing a great job. They have one monastery in Ireland - in Limerick city- and I think it is a community of 3 brothers and 2 priests. They only arrived a few months ago, but are getting a very positive reaction in what is a very troubled area of the city… I think the main priority of the friars is to renew a sense of community which has been seriously damaged by anti-social behaviour… Perhaps their pioneering work will spur some vocations (fingers crossed), but I think in that particular community this is a long way off. I wonder how the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal are doing in terms of vocations in the U.S. where they are more established? I think if any order can attract vocations, the Franciscans can - in my experience they are extremely pious priests and excellent preachers!

Matt510- on your second point about other denominations embracing young people, don’t lose heart!! While the Church in Ireland will never be as it was in the 1960 (I don’t really think anyone would want that anyway), I see youth groups springing up quite frequently - Youth2000 is supposedly doing very well, for example… and then there’s a few like me - I’m 23 - who see the value and rewards of faith. Since the decline in the power of the Church in Ireland and with increase in Ireland’s wealth, many people are turning to pleasures which will eventually pass - but wait until things aren’t going too well… God has not distanced Himself from Ireland - Ireland has distanced itself from God!!

Incidentally, (I know I’m the one who’s digressing from the topic of the thread!) you might know the Irish Catholic newspaper called ‘Alive!’ - I saw a strange add in it today by Des Kelly Interiors! When I saw it first I thought ‘are they allowing this sort of advertising now?’ - until I read the caption. It said “Our door closes on Sundays…Because His door opens” - part of the subtext said “While our doors will remain closed on the 7th day, there is a place where the doors are always open and that’s why it’s easy to get back in…to Sundays.” I was absolutely gobsmacked when I read this. A breath of fresh air! Hopefully after the huge commercialism and greed in Ireland over the past decade, other businesses will follow suit and give Sunday back to God. I certainly believe Ireland is finally reaching a turning point…

 

[Devalera0]

Theres no doubt that the problem in ireland is the teaching of the faith. The majority of irish schools have a catholic ethos but the
faith is simply not being taught. There is a sugar coated, be nice to everyone version and thats it. Thats why young people dont believe and thats what there are very few vocations.
When the Irish bishops went to rome in 06 for their ad-limina
the pope told them of the importance of a catechism based religious ed program, but they have no intention of following his instruction.

 

[Pious_Mat]

I will agree that education is paramount. A huge impediment here in Canada is that outside of the Province of Ontario, there are no Catholic school districts. The others are outrageously expensive private schools who recieve little or no government funding, and yet are told what to do by the state (e.g., that incident where a gay student brought the school to court for not being allowed to bring his boyfriend to prom at his Catholic school).

Recently in the province of Quebec, a series of hearings regarding cultural accomdation (debate centered on Muslims and Orthodox Jews), showed that the prejudice is not because our Catholic heritage is the opposite of the Islamic way of life, but rather because secularism is viewed as a great virtue. When the Primate of Canada spoke about Catholic education (something in full accord with not culturally accomodating), the secular knee-jerk set in.

I have always said that good education in the faith and orthodoxy in parish life are paramount to fostering religious education, but I’m always told that “pastoral concerns” change circumstances, and being the idiot layman (at least for the moment) that I am, I certainly incapable of understanding that.

Lastly, I just want to say that it’s funny how parishioners lament the priest shortage, but never actively do anything about it–never try to foster vocations in their sons, nephews, and grandsons. I come learn in my short life that there a lot of people out there who love to miserable and constantly reminding other people of their current state. I think there might be a lot of those in the Church nowadays.

As to what my Diocese has done, I can honestly claim that absolutely nothing has been done.