Irrefutable pro-life argument

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Nozzferrahhtoo said:
The only argument you however have presented is the “uniqueness” of the DNA in a zygote. So what? The DNA in the sperm is unique too. It is a unique combination formed from a mix of the fathers DNA. So although it is made up of only the DNA of the father, it is still a unique combination of it. If you do not believe this then look up the term “recombination” for example during the “mytosis” that creates the male gamete.
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You obviously misunderstand the argument of prolifers when they add how unique DNA inside of the zygote is. You have to look at the entire design there and the capability of these cells holding the DNA. To put it simply, show us one sperm cell that has the capability to grow into an adult human being. I can show you at the moment over 6 billion plus Zygote cells that have. Zygotes are the human body on a cellular level. Sperm cells are not.
 
Disagreeing with something does not equate or extrapolate to misunderstanding it.

What has this capability got to do with rights? Many cells, human and otherwise have the capability to grow into something else. What is so special about a Human one and not a Chimp one, or a dog one, or a cow? It is just basic arrogance to think our DNA is somehow special.

Couple that also with the fact there is zero guarantee that any such cell will grow into a human adult, given that nature itself is the most prolific abortion doctor of all. Have you ever read the stats on how many pregnancies self abort? Usually before the mother even knows she is pregnant.

And finally we do not assign rights based on potential. We do not lock you up because you are a potential murderer. We do not let all the murderers free because they are potential rehabilitants.

No we assign rights based on what things ARE not what they MAY be.

So really, I see no advantage at all (except for mental simplicity) of the DNA argument, and I see at least three glaring holes in it.

However in any discussion of “rights” there IS no thing more important than their very source. What could possibly be more important in a discussion of X than the very source of X? What makes us special in terms of rights is the ability to conceive of them in the first place and the ONLY source we are aware of for this is the faculty of human consciousness. That, therefore, unlike mere DNA, is actually something worth protecting, in ALL its forms.
 
Nozzferrahhtoo said:
What has this capability got to do with rights?
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This capability has everything to do with human rights extending to your own position at the moment of being capable of continuing to grow as a human being.
Nozzferrahhtoo said:
Many cells, human and otherwise have the capability to grow into something else.
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I could care less about cells that turn into something else. I’m talking about human zygote cells growing into adult human beings. Your attempt to turn the discussion away from this tells me that deep down, you know there is a huge difference between a sperm cell and a Zygote.
Nozzferrahhtoo said:
What is so special about a Human one and not a Chimp one, or a dog one, or a cow? It is just basic arrogance to think our DNA is somehow special.
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I’m not talking about chimps am I. Let them have their own rights and you can fight for whichever ones you feel they should have. In this thread we are talking about human rights and abortion of HUMANS.
Nozzferrahhtoo said:
Couple that also with the fact there is zero guarantee that any such cell will grow into a human adult, given that nature itself is the most prolific abortion doctor of all.
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Irrelevant. Nature kills all sorts of adults. Doesn’t mean they deserve to die at the hands of other humans which is exactly what abortion is doing.
Nozzferrahhtoo said:
Have you ever read the stats on how many pregnancies self abort? Usually before the mother even knows she is pregnant.
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Has nothing to do with this thread which is dealing with the intent to abort. You are attempting to come up with all sorts of reasonings that quite frankly make zero sense to the topic at hand.
Nozzferrahhtoo said:
And finally we do not assign rights based on potential. We do not lock you up because you are a potential murderer. We do not let all the murderers free because they are potential rehabilitants.
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Sure we do. A newborn has basic human rights and he/she has potential to grow into an adult human being as I originally stated with a Zygote.
Nozzferrahhtoo said:
No we assign rights based on what things ARE not what they MAY be.
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I never said a zygote has the potential to be human. I said a Zygote has the potential to grow into an adult human being. Notice the difference between my wording and what you would have wanted me to say?
 
Like I say, meaningless - I’m not sure you know what you mean:rolleyes:
body and cell are not the same - sheesh!
 
Des, clearly it was a random comment with no real meaning, forgive me for imagining you might have been trying to say something:rolleyes:
 
Doc_Keele said:
kimmielittle, I’m still baffled as to why someone who claims to know what my comment meant needs to ask if I believe legality outweighs morality? It doesn’t make any sense.
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It went to your reasoning for posting this statement of yours;
“The existence of foetal homicide statutes (excepting Massachusetts) emphasizes the fact that common law doesn’t recognize the foetus as a person.”
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‘Descriptive not normative’ addresses the ** body of the statement - not the reasoning **.

There can be only two reasons for posting it;

One; You thought legality outweighs morality. In which case there would be reason to post it.

Two; You don’t think so…in which case there was no need to post it.🤷
 
Nozzferrahhtoo said:
AD Hominem. Some decorum please. Please address the post and not the poster. I openly and honestly reached out and said I need more help understanding your point of view. In response to that you chose instead to use it as a chance to question my honesty and approach. If that is the kind of person you are, then so be it, but I am not about to pander to it.
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I have no doubts…but I wonder if you chose to miss my point - because it doesn’t fit your IMHO ] poorly constructed ideas and don’t wish to move from them?
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Is not an ad hominem - it is personal opinion.
 
Doc_Keele said:
ah, the fallacy of false alternatives…😃
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Please furnish proof that there is a third alternative.

You assert that the two alternatives I gave are false, please prove this.

You still refuse to address the reasoning for posting it.
 
Kimmie, I don’t have to tell you the reason for posting what I did, the post speaks for itself. The post was a simple statement of fact, your attempts to inflate it into something else are your business and yours alone.
 
Doc_Keele said:
Kimmie, I don’t have to tell you the reason for posting what I did, the post speaks for itself. The post was a simple statement of fact, your attempts to inflate it into something else are your business and yours alone.
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:rotfl:

You just throw out statements of facts for no reason?
Your post - addressed no other post.

I am merely trying to find out what your reasoning behind posting it was. I wasn’t the only one who questioned your reasons.

Debate works this way: You state something - we question.

IMHO sniped quips doesn’t address the question asked - neither do non answers - or skirting the question.:rolleyes:
 
Nozzferrahhtoo said:
AD Hominem. Some decorum please. Please address the post and not the poster. I openly and honestly reached out and said I need more help understanding your point of view. In response to that you chose instead to use it as a chance to question my honesty and approach. If that is the kind of person you are, then so be it, but I am not about to pander to it.
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but I wonder if you chose to miss my point - because it doesn’t fit your IMHO ] poorly constructed ideas and don’t wish to move from them?
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An ad Hominem makes a statement - this asks a question - of you. That is why it has a ? mark.

I hope this helps.
 
Oh my goodness. I didn’t get a chance to tell a certain someone that it’s “mitosis” not “mytosis.” Oh well…🤷

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe today.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.*
 
flyingfish said:
I’m sorry if what I said hurt you. I don’t think that you should be selling your computer and going to the library. I don’t think you’re a bad person in any way for not doing that, and I never meant to suggest that you are a bad person.

It was not my intention to judge you.
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I’m sorry. I guess you hit a real sore spot I have. There are many things I want to do and so many I can’t do. I’ve wondered in the past whether I should sell everything I have and give the money to the poor. I know that I live in absolute luxury compared to most of tthe people in the world. But I have to take care of myself, too, and doing so costs me money. My life and my finances are very complicated. It’s not as easy as just selling my house and all my possessions. If it were, that is exactly what I would do.

I didn’t want to list what I’m doing because to me that would feel like I would be boasting and I would be embarrassed.

My computer is literally my link to the rest of the world. If I didn’t have it I don’t know what I would do.
I meant to say that the person doesn’t exist, obviously I don’t think a fetus is a vacuum with nothingness inside it. What exists is a human fetus, or a human newborn. It’s not yet a person, but it’s on its way to growing into one.
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I don’t know how else I can phrase it. I don’t think it makes sense to talk about rights with respect to a physical system that doesn’t have self awareness or thoughts.
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I don’t think there is anything else I can say to make my position any clearer than I have already made it.
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I don’t think either of us can get the other to understand our positions. I’m really tired now, so I would like to just stop debating that part of this thread, if that’s OK with you.

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe today.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.*
 
LittleSoldier said:
I’m sorry. I guess you hit a real sore spot I have. There are many things I want to do and so many I can’t do. I’ve wondered in the past whether I should sell everything I have and give the money to the poor. I know that I live in absolute luxury compared to most of tthe people in the world. But I have to take care of myself, too, and doing so costs me money. My life and my finances are very complicated. It’s not as easy as just selling my house and all my possessions. If it were, that is exactly what I would do.

I didn’t want to list what I’m doing because to me that would feel like I would be boasting and I would be embarrassed.

My computer is literally my link to the rest of the world. If I didn’t have it I don’t know what I would do.
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I’m really sorry, and you should know I feel really bad for pressing you on that issue. I was doing it for the sake of the argument, and it was immature of me and I shouldn’t have done that. I don’t think you’re a hypocrite, and I don’t think you need to sell everything you have. If I could take back what I said I would.
 
flyingfish said:
I’m really sorry, and you should know I feel really bad for pressing you on that issue. I was doing it for the sake of the argument, and it was immature of me and I shouldn’t have done that. I don’t think you’re a hypocrite, and I don’t think you need to sell everything you have. If I could take back what I said I would.
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Yeah, that twenty-minute limit really can cause problems!

Actually I think your point is a good one and a valid one, if used to describe groups of people. I am sure there are a lot of people who speak out against abortion or hunger or poverty and then do absolutely nothing about these problems. And I’ve often wanted to ask them what they actually do. Words are cheap. Work takes effort.

I’ve never liked this saying, but I think it fits here: We need to both talk the talk and walk the walk. Way too many people only talk the talk.

Don’t worry. Everything is fine between us. I want to apologize for some of the things I’ve said to you and about you. I went way beyond charity and my actions were not kind or appropriate. I know you’re a good person. I think most people are good and I should always assume that a person is good until I’m shown evidence that proves they are not.

Pax. 🙂

*Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe today.

St. Francis, please pray for all unwanted and hurt animals.*
 
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