Irrefutable Proof against being born gay?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mr_bamber
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Felix_Il_Gatto said:
When did Christ say, “Homosexuals are born heterosexual”? Where did Christ say, “All people are born heterosexual”?
Yes, Adam and Eve were created male and female, but they were also the only humans on earth. Maybe if God had created multiple men and women in Genesis, Adam would have been more attracted to a man. We don’t know because God made it so that the human race could be propagated by only making two human beings at that time.
The Bible condemns homosexual acts (along with the eating of shellfish, the wearing of mixed fabrics, crop rotation, and women not covering their heads when they pray), but it never condemns persons with homosexual tendencies.
I don’t believe I have denied any “obvious” truth. Nothing in faith is “obvious”. That is why faith is called a mystery.
Click to expand...
St. Paul speaks of homosexuality as a kind of madness, one of the results of idolatry, in part because in paganism, sex, including sex with male temple prostitutes, was a kind of religious act.
 
Felix_Il_Gatto said:
The Church also leaves, for example, the Apparitions of Our Lady of the Rosary in Fatima up to our own relative experiences concerning the appartion, which allows us to choose as individuals if we want to believe it or not. Is the Church then allowing this “theology of the relativistic principle” to remove us away from God’s Grace because they allow us to have opinions that they don’t relegate?
The Church teaches nothing against my theory. So how is my having a theory regarding this matter taking me away from God’s grace?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
In discussing sin we have to perhaps regrettably move away from the main body of opening premis of this thread to review what it is that constitutes sin; primarily culpability of action. Pre-Vatican 2 Catholic theology tended to emphasise legal casuitry in personal responsibilty toward God and toward one’s neighbour, a mechanical form of morality set in, O.T. catalogue replacing N.T. attitude.
In discussing sin there is need to move away from the objective toward the subjective journey with God, the road to Emmaus.
 
RobbyS said:
The Church says that homosexuality is “intrinsically disordered.” That is another way of saying, psychologically all screwed up. The gays hate this language, in part because they ARE all screwed up. …
Click to expand...
Rob I know you don’t mean to be harsh, but this would necessarily be a sore point with anyone when discussing their homosexual drives etc. I thank God there are so many here who at least understand that it is indeed a disorder - SSAD (same sex attraction disorder) but IT IS IMPORTANT to understand the disorder and it’s origins inorder to have a truly charitable view for all gay, lesbian, bi and homosexual identified people.

A quick synopsis of the causes of same sex orientation is found at SSA Hope:
ssahope.com/same_sex_attraction_education.html
Please click on the link and read the page to at least gain a rudimentary idea of why it is not their fault and even why they can not always recognize the disorder as such but feel they were born gay etc.

I think we faithful Catholics sometimes have knee-jerk reactions to these discussions because of the myths and lies spread by gay activists - but even they do not truly understand themselves or their past environment, unmet emotional needs etc…
I hope I don’t sound judgemental towards you. I used to feel and speak the same way in these discussions.
Peace,
Carla
 
Mannyfit75 said:
But the fact is that the ten percent figure is false. It stems from the 1948 report by Alfred Kinsey, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male. The study was profoundly flawed, as later psychologists studying sexual behavior have agreed. Kinsey’s subjects were drawn heavily from convicted criminals; 1,400 of his 5,300 final subjects (twenty-six percent) were convicted sex offenders—a group that by definition is not representative of normal sexual practices.
Click to expand...
His work is still seen as valid and his institute is still working in the realm of human sexuality. He placed people into groups based on their sexual attraction, ranging from pure heterosexual to pure homosexual.
Furthermore, the ten percent figure includes people who are not exclusively homosexual but who only engaged in some homosexual behavior for a period of time and then stopped—people who had gone through a fully or partially homosexual “phase” but who were not long-term homosexuals. (For a critique of Kinsey’s research methods, see Kinsey, Sex, and Fraud, by Dr. Judith Reisman and Edward Eichel [Lafayette, Louisiana: Lochinvar & Huntington House, 1990].)

Recent and more scientifically accurate studies have shown that only around one to two percent of the population is homosexual
Click to expand...
I can give a whole list of Scholors who basically feel that book is just a political read. I would be very weary of reading something like that and thinking that it had merit.
 
CarlaOLS said:
Rob I know you don’t mean to be harsh, but this would necessarily be a sore point with anyone when discussing their homosexual drives etc. I thank God there are so many here who at least understand that it is indeed a disorder - SSAD (same sex attraction disorder) but IT IS IMPORTANT to understand the disorder and it’s origins inorder to have a truly charitable view for all gay, lesbian, bi and homosexual identified people.
Click to expand...
The Church views **homosexual acts **as **a disorder **"Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents **homosexual acts **as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that 'homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.’ (CCC 2357)

The Church will only approve of sexual acts in which there is possibility of procreation, homosexual acts “close the sexual act to the gift of life” (CCC 2357)

In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder.

The American Psychological Association Council of Representatives followed in 1975.

Perhaps there is not a great deal of disparity when the world and the Church consider homosexuality.
 
Convert66 said:
Here is a link to a rather lengthy and weighty article entitled, Causes of Homosexuality: A Christian Appraisal of the Data.
All my best…🙂
Click to expand...
I particularly like his closing comment: “…to **seek chastity according to God’s plan **is not an imposition of arbitrary norms but the inner condition of attaining the fulfillment desired by every human heart. Though it may be a long difficult road, as the late Karol Wojtyla stated, **'Chastity **is the sure way to happiness (Wojtyla, 1960, p. 172)”
(Emphasis mine)

We may all be in need of healing, an ongoing process. Thank you.
 
KEVIN_WILCOX said:
The Church views **homosexual acts **as **a disorder **"Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents **homosexual acts **as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that 'homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.’ (CCC 2357)

The Church will only approve of sexual acts in which there is possibility of procreation, homosexual acts “close the sexual act to the gift of life” (CCC 2357)

In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder.

The American Psychological Association Council of Representatives followed in 1975.

Perhaps there is not a great deal of disparity when the world and the Church consider homosexuality.
Click to expand...
The APA is having second thoughts however…

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/08/18/faith-and-sexual-identity/

an article (and other stuff) from WSJ concerning sexual identity and faith

dj
 
KEVIN_WILCOX said:
I particularly like his closing comment: “…to **seek chastity according to God’s plan **is not an imposition of arbitrary norms but the inner condition of attaining the fulfillment desired by every human heart. Though it may be a long difficult road, as the late Karol Wojtyla stated, **'Chastity **is the sure way to happiness (Wojtyla, 1960, p. 172)”
(Emphasis mine)

We may all be in need of healing, an ongoing process. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Josef Pieper in *The Four Cardinal Virtues *deals with Temperance last. This is the cardinal virtue under which chastity is subsumed. Pieper went to Aquinas to consider the virtues because he felt that in Aquinas one encountered the most disciplined, dynamic and penetrating independent thinking — yet a kind of thinking that spoke less to the individual writer, meaning Thomas himself, than to a great tradition of wisdom itself. That wisdom shines through in this post and it is one I am presently reflecting greatly upon.

payingattentiontothesky.com/2010/01/20/st-thomas-on-temperance-and-intemperance-discipline-and-dissoluteness/

A subsequent post also deals with Chastity as well as a short list of Dawn Eden’s on why to be chaste.

A teaser:

"Chastity helps us direct our sexuality and sexual desires toward authentic love and away from using persons as objects for sexual pleasure. Chastity is not, as I had imagined, a matter of repression of sexual feelings and temptations, but is the successful integration of the gift of sexuality within the whole person. To integrate the gift of sexuality means to make it subordinate to love and respect through the practice of chastity.

Dawn Eden writes: “Part of chastity entails the proper ordering of sexual pleasure — which means engaging in it only within marriage. But more than that, it is really a way to look at all of one’s relationships so that they no longer become mere exchanges of commodities. It means experiencing others’ presence — not just what they do, but their existence itself — as a gift. A spouse is a particularly special reminder of that most perfect gift of self made by Jesus Christ."

dj
 
I want to thank DJ and Ladybri for rightly turning the discussion to chastity. How beautiful it is! What freedom exists in it! Praise God.
 
Would Dawn Eden also consider the temperance of chastity a virtue to be practiced within marriage as indeed I would, from the quote you kindly provided her viewpoint is a little unclear.
 
CarlaOLS said:
I want to thank DJ and Ladybri for rightly turning the discussion to chastity. How beautiful it is! What freedom exists in it! Praise God.
Click to expand...
Beautiful yes, but unfortunately not the gambit of the OP, irrefutable proof against being born gay to which we must return.
 
I practice chastity between every time I have sex. Isn’t that enough? :o

And so do gays.
 
larkin31 said:
I practice chastity between every time I have sex. Isn’t that enough? :o

And so do gays.
Click to expand...
If sex is so natural how come people have so many problems with it?

Since the 1970’s when society started talking openly about sex the incidence of laryngopharyngeal squamous cell carcinoma has increased 70%.
 
KEVIN_WILCOX said:
If sex is so natural how come people have so many problems with it?

Since the 1970’s when society started talking openly about sex the incidence of laryngopharyngeal squamous cell carcinoma has increased 70%.
Click to expand...
talking about sex is dangerous!
 
Camerong has misquoted the Cathechism!!!

Here is the correct section:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Note the Catechism does say that homosexuality is a objectively disordered tendency. All baptized are called to chastity.
 
I didn’t take the time to read the previous 11 pages of posts here, and may be echoing what others have posted…but…

Does it really matter why one has an attraction to members of one’s own sex?

Whether or not it’s inborn or developed, it is a reality for a number of people, and we as Catholic Christians need to deal with that reality. While it may be interesting from a sociological/anthropological POV to speculate on the origns of homosexual inclinations in homosexual persons, it really is a moot point as to how we should view the sin of homosexual activity.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top