Irreverance

[JimR-OCDS]

Our bishop has ordered that no one except the priest or deacon, are to remove or place the Eucharist into the tabernacle. So far, everyone is complying.

Jim

 

[romanholiday]

To stay on topic:

It is understandable if an older person cannot genuflect or make a profound bow. But some sign of reverence should be done. Perhaps a bow of the head or sign of the cross as some have suggested. Unfortunately, it seems that too many parishes treat the Eucharist as though it were just bread and wine and not really Jesus. I have never seen this occur at any Tridentine Rite parish or any tradition minded NO parish. At these places, the Eucharist is always treated with the utmost respect and care. Cardinal Ratzinger, now Benedict XVI has said that the crisis in the Church is a crisis of faith and that when liturgy collapses, the faith of the people often follows.

 

[gvogt4]

Would you care to explain how her post is on topic? Remember, the OP is talking about the reverence shown to the Holy Eucharist by priests and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. The post is a classic fallacy of argumentation. Pointing to the behavior of others to take the focus off the issue at hand. I actually agree that many people seem to be doing anything other than praying after receiving the Holy Eucharist. But that is a separate issue from what we are talking about in this thread and shifting the focus of the topic is usually what happens when someone has nothing else of substance to say.

Well, my friend, you have now used 2 posts to state your opinion that puzzleannie posted off-topic. If this were the case, that is the job of the Moderator. It is true that the OP stated a specific instance regarding a “woman” and what transpired when she placed the Host in the tabernacle, and she contrasted the reverance at one Mass to that of another, and she stated her concerns about receiving from an EMHC, but the spirit of her post included reverance or irreverance to the Eucharist at Mass in general. In fact, she began by stating “I was just struck how different everyone treats the Eucharist”. Then she digressed and stated the aforementioned example.

Puzzleannie’s point was that it was her opinion that one should close their eyes and contemplate on the Eucharist (which is a good idea) and implied that those who do not are showing irreverance (which I disagree with.) Puzzleannie, I understand what you are trying to get across here, and I appreciate that, but people are different, and we should not try to “box up” how God reaches each of us or how we each respond to Him. Our Parish is large. I usually sit near the front, which means I receive early. I will not go through all of what I do afterward, but that which you suggested is a part of it. However, many times, near the end of the time which others are still proceeding to receive the Eucharist, I do enjoy witnessing how our Lord comes to my brothers and sisters to whom I am especially connected to in a special way at this moment. In doing this, however, I have witnessed more than one incident that I would classify as unfortunate at best. I do not believe that witnessing these incidents nor feeling the hurt I did as a result were irreverant on my part. By the way, I was born in '67 and the Communion rail was done away with before I first received, but I do remember it and the use of it at my childhood Parish. Too bad it’s gone.

 

[Light_Seeker]

Would you care to explain how her post is on topic? Remember, the OP is talking about the reverence shown to the Holy Eucharist by priests and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. The post is a classic fallacy of argumentation. Pointing to the behavior of others to take the focus off the issue at hand. I actually agree that many people seem to be doing anything other than praying after receiving the Holy Eucharist. But that is a separate issue from what we are talking about in this thread and shifting the focus of the topic is usually what happens when someone has nothing else of substance to say.

Yes, you are correct, the OP is discussing lack of reverence to the host by EMHCs. She discussed this in the vein of what she witnessed.

Since she discussed what was witnessed after she received The Eucharist, I can not see how a post mentioning the reverence of the laities actions after receiving is not relevant to this topic. Perhaps not the main focus of an EM displaying irreverence, but in no way is it a red herring, or fallacy of argumentation as you claim. . In fact, I don’t even believe she’s debating! Furthermore, she had posted several times earlier on possibilities of physical impairment preventing reverence…

 

[romanholiday]

Well, my friend, you have now used 2 posts to state your opinion that puzzleannie posted off-topic. If this were the case, that is the job of the Moderator. It is true that the OP stated a specific instance regarding a “woman” and what transpired when she placed the Host in the tabernacle, and she contrasted the reverance at one Mass to that of another, and she stated her concerns about receiving from an EMHC, but the spirit of her post included reverance or irreverance to the Eucharist at Mass in general. In fact, she began by stating “I was just struck how different everyone treats the Eucharist”. Then she digressed and stated the aforementioned example.

The problem was that it was clearly off topic and an instance of bait and switch argumentation, not just my opinion. By pointing out the irreverent behavior of others, it was like saying, “Who are you to judge what I’m doing, see what you and all those other people are doing?!!” A way to try and make people feel guilty about pointing out irreverence.

And as far as the Moderators doing something, let’s just say that the things they allow and don’t allow to be discussed on these forums is often interesting.

 

[romanholiday]

Yes, you are correct, the OP is discussing lack of reverence to the host by EMHCs. She discussed this in the vein of what she witnessed.

Since she discussed what was witnessed after she received The Eucharist, I can not see how a post mentioning the reverence of the laities actions after receiving is not relevant to this topic. Perhaps not the main focus of an EM displaying irreverence, but in no way is it a red herring, or fallacy of argumentation as you claim. . In fact, I don’t even believe she’s debating! Furthermore, she had posted several times earlier on possibilities of physical impairment preventing reverence…

Unfortunately, you are in error in claiming that it is not a fallacy of argumentation. Shifting the focus from one thing (the reverence of EMHC’s and priests by the altar and tabernacle) to another (what the laity notice and are doing in the pews) IS a red herring argument. At least that is what I learned in Philosophy 101.

 

[romanholiday]

I apologize for some of my posts being off topic, but it drives me crazy when people point out other’s behavior to take focus off there own. Let’s stick to the reverence that should be shown by EMHC’s and priests by the tabernacle and altar.

 

[gvogt4]

Do you really not see that what you are describing is exactly what you are doing?

 

[Marian_Carroll]

The thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in a meaningful way.