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JohnDeereFan
Guest
Oh, OK. Then I guess calling you a jerk isn’t calling you a name.
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Monica4316
Guest
can you tell me where and when the Church has said you are anathema? were you ever Catholic? anathema is formal excommunication for heresy and it only happens to people who were Catholics and then started openly preaching heresy.
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Monica4316
Guest
I also wanted to add 
about being born again…
baptism marks you as “Christ’s own”. However, God has given us free will and that doesn’t guarantee salvation, cause the person can always leave. God doesn’t force us to love Him… that wouldn’t be love. Rather, He gives us graces, that we can accept or reject… we should cooperate with grace. And then, Christ saves us.
about being born again…baptism marks you as “Christ’s own”. However, God has given us free will and that doesn’t guarantee salvation, cause the person can always leave. God doesn’t force us to love Him… that wouldn’t be love. Rather, He gives us graces, that we can accept or reject… we should cooperate with grace. And then, Christ saves us.
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SonofMonica
Guest
No, you can’t.
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JohnDeereFan
Guest
Are you familiar with the Council of Trent?
Yep.
But the Catholic does teach that these things are heresy.
Then it’s your word against the Council of Trent.
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SonofMonica
Guest
I’m going to assume that you’re about to go ahead point out what I did to you that caused you to feel I was being a jerk, so that I can apologize, and that you’re not just calling me a jerk to be mean and to violate this forum’s Terms of Service…
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JohnDeereFan
Guest
What’s the violation? It’s not name calling.
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SonofMonica
Guest
Yes, and I knew exactly that’s where you were getting your information. Your misconceptions about Trent are nothing new, here. Anathemas pronounced there apply to Catholics. Not to non-Catholics. You can’t toss a non-Catholic out of the Church. He can preach whatever he wants to at his own place of worship, heresy or not.
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SonofMonica
Guest
Ok, when you grow up, we will talk again.
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JohnDeereFan
Guest
And your arrogance in just dismissing everything I say out of hand because I’m a Protestant is nothing new, either.
The Council of Trent did not make that distinction. Either it’s wrong to believe those things or it’s not.
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JohnDeereFan
Guest
I should say the same to you.
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Monica4316
Guest
yes and you’re misinterpreting it…
it’s not enough to be Catholic and then leave the Church to be formally excommunicated. You’re formally excommunicated if you’re like Martin Luther… if you come up with heresies and preach them and lead people astray with them, as a Catholic. Then, the Church tells you, you can’t receive Communion, and “excommunicates” you. That’s anathema.
Did the Church formally forbid you, personally, from receiving the Eucharist? or did you just leave on your own? if so, you’re not “anathema”.
Peace
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JohnDeereFan
Guest
I disagree. The Council of Trent does not make that distinction.
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Monica4316
Guest
the Council of Trent does not stand alone. It should be interpreted together with other Councils and Church teaching. Especially with all the grey areas that might be unclear.
But I’m sorry I can’t debate anymore…
God bless!
But I’m sorry I can’t debate anymore…
God bless!
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PRmerger
Guest
JohnDeereFan responded:
To which I respond: so how many denominations will you accept is the correct number? I’ll work with you on whatever number you claim is true.
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bacalzoLDS
Guest
In response to ‘sheep stealing’, no one gets ‘stolen’ w/o their permission. If the Catholics are so devout then the fact that other missionaries come shouldnt’ be irritating. That goes for any church. You dont’ have church police of any denomination that I am aware of. I say let the missionaries talk to other members of other churches. If one’s testimony is strong then their testimonies will only get stronger as one testifies of their own beliefs. I don’t see missionaries as a threat. One should know what their church believes to be able to discuss civily w/missionaries of other denominations w/o bible bashing.
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phoenix3212
Guest
Oh, but the problem isn’t whether people are devout, it’s whether people are educated. People can be led to believe that Catholicism is pagan, idolatrous, cultish, and what have you without knowing any better. This is why I insist that before missionaries try to convert Catholics, they first learn about the faith from Catholic sources.
Indeed, many Catholics around the world know virtually nothing about the faith. Someone needs to teach them, before they are proselytized by often Anti-Catholic missionaries.
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bacalzoLDS
Guest
Okay! I understand now. And I totally agree w/you. 
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Matariel
Guest
Well, I guess as an Ex-Protestant (Evangelical/Fundamentalist) I could be considered a “stolen sheep” from Protestantism, but to me it seems the vast majority of fallen-away Catholics are ones who didn’t know their faith well to begin with (one Catholic-turned-Baptist told me I was the “first one who told her that the Popes are the successors of St. Peter” 
and that “St. Christopher is no longer a Saint” (a popular urban myth, apparently) ) and it seems like converts to Catholicism are truth-seeking people who have studies the Bible and Church history and thought about this intensely for a long time. I think taking advantage of peoples’ gullibility is the dividing line between sheep-stealing and whatnot. On the other hand, if people aren’t properly catechized in their religion, no wonder some may fall away. The fact is, in North and apparently South America, good catechesis has been lacking for a while. Fortunately, this trend seems to be slowly diminishing, thank God.
and that “St. Christopher is no longer a Saint” (a popular urban myth, apparently) ) and it seems like converts to Catholicism are truth-seeking people who have studies the Bible and Church history and thought about this intensely for a long time. I think taking advantage of peoples’ gullibility is the dividing line between sheep-stealing and whatnot. On the other hand, if people aren’t properly catechized in their religion, no wonder some may fall away. The fact is, in North and apparently South America, good catechesis has been lacking for a while. Fortunately, this trend seems to be slowly diminishing, thank God.
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bacalzoLDS
Guest
The claim is that all Catholic converts are truth seekers. I don’t think the Catholic church is the only one that has truth seekers. Truth seekers end up in a variety of denominations. So, I beg to disagree.Not all people who leave the religion they were born into are not all lame and uneducated or slack in their studies. If you talk to anyone who converted to a different religion other than the one they were raised in, most are actually offended at the assumption that they were slack in their studies of the doctrine.
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