Irritations within Church and Catholics

[Bruno_Schulz]

**February 2009, Pope Benedict XVI. opened his arms in forgiving the “Pius Brotherhood”, who left our Cath. Church; did wrong in disobeying the Pope, dedicating own Priests and Bishops independent from Vatican - therefore where excommunicated. The Pope offered them to come back into the Holy Catholic Church.

Same world who couldn’t care less before, now suddenly cared with great concern, because one of them, as the Pope at that point had not been told, denies holocaust – the British bishop Richard Williamson.

The Pope declared as soon as he was told, that of course nobody can deny the fact of holocaust, and British Bishop Richard Williamson has to accept this fact.

In spite of this clarification, the profane world loves to announce the Pope did wrong in denying holocaust, or at least not caring if a Catholic Bishop does so. The Pope was startled at such totally wrong accusations and lies!

This did not keep a lot of Catholics from leaving the Church these days, under the “justification”: “The Pope denies Holocaust”.

In fact my friends and I think, that these Catholics who leave the church now for this non-reason that’s now artificially exaggerated, never really had been Catholics, nor even Christians. Woe to those “Catholics” who damage Jesus’ Church in that way!

Pius Brotherhood did not renunciate; obviously accepts to be away from Vatican and our Church - Richard Williamson still denies holocaust.
**

 

[AveSantaMaria]

I love the Pope so much! I am so sad that other people do not love him as well. Let us keep this situation in our prayers.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

I love the Pope so much! I am so sad that other people do not love him as well. Let us keep this situation in our prayers.

the Pontiff acted with Christ like love, even if the Bishop holds unpopular views, that is an entirely seperate matter from the theological reasons for his excommunication. one issue is not contingent on the other.

the Pontiffs job is not to win some popularity contest, its in Service to Christ and His Body. Its to make decisions with the Authority of the Seat of Peter.

He made a decisionthat united a schismatic sect back to that Body, how can that be wrong?

 

[AveSantaMaria]

I once went to a spiritual warfare seminar where I learned that in spiritual warfare there is attack and counterattack. Do you think that these attacks could be of demonic origin, coming from the fact that the Pope Benedict XVI said a few weeks ago, “we must save people from self destructive sexual lifestyles?” So very very bold of him in an era of political correctness!!!

 

[1holycatholic]

the Pontiff acted with Christ like love, even if the Bishop holds unpopular views, that is an entirely seperate matter from the theological reasons for his excommunication. one issue is not contingent on the other.

the Pontiffs job is not to win some popularity contest, its in Service to Christ and His Body. Its to make decisions with the Authority of the Seat of Peter.

He made a decisionthat united a schismatic sect back to that Body, how can that be wrong?

The same statement applies to all bishops, priests and deacons. :yup:

 

[Shin]

Honestly, the more the secular world loves the pope the more concerned I am, since what he is supposed to stand for is anything but in agreement with them. If the sinners love him, if few attack him, is he doing the work he is supposed to do?

The relationship is supposed to be one at odds. Of challenging, of clearly condemning sins, and showing the clear better path of charity.

Of course that doesn’t justify the sinful attacks upon him, the calumnies and false accusations, however it is not as if one can expect much better of the world given its separation from God.

This sort of things separates the sheep and potential sheep from the goats.

Ave Maria. +

 

[po18guy]

The media, in the US particularly, have for all practical matters, renounced the truth and chosen political sides. Additionally, they have reduced themselves to the level of those who shout rumors in a crowd. They have become prostitutes, placing money above the truth. Pretty good description of Judas, actually.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

Pope Benedict XVI said, “we must save people from self destructive sexual lifestyles?” So very very bold of him in an era of political correctness!!!

I might have misunderstood this posting due to my poor English, but why do you think it was bold of the pope? Still: BOLD has a lot of meanings – see here: dict.cc/?s=bold

Yes, we really must save people from self destructive sexual lifestyles. Look at cultures where homosexuality was common like Greece or where even child molestation was common like in Rome. Both cultures have been wiped out. Many other cultures before, who lived against Gods will in perversity, had been destroyed as the bible tells us. So, the pope is right in warning in this direction. Let’s listen to this great Pope who really lives in God.

And as all of you pointed out here, all the Pope did in the actual case, was perform Christian love. It’s a shame and incomprehensible, that so many misunderstood and put words and thoughts onto the Pope he never neither said nor thought.
A scandal, that even so many Catholics left the church for that NONreason. Those who did, never had been Catholic before! I wonder, how they will justify themselves before Jesus Christ. They can’t – woe them!

Our older brethrens in God, the Jews misunderstood deliberately. They and even some Catholics think it’s a scandal too, that the Pope prays for them to find back to Jesus. What’s wrong if we do?! It’s love only.
I wouldn’t mind if a Moslem would pray for me to convert to Islam. I’d take it as an action of love, as he doesn’t know nor recognise Jesus.

Deliberately to misunderstand somebody, I a very common sin but an all the more destroying sin.

**

 

[AveSantaMaria]

I think it was bold and good because so many people are incredibly concerned with pleasing people and with being politically correct these days. So they don’t say anything when something needs to be said. They seek to serve men not God. While the side defending what is morally wrong speaks out all the time and introduces people to a false morality.

**
A man of conscience, is one who never acquires tolerance, well-being, success, public standing, and approval on the part of prevailing opinion, at the expense of truth.** Pope Benedict XVI

Satan is behind the abortion industry. We sacrifice our children to Satan.

He may be behind this as well. In spiritual warfare, when God uses a person to combat evil there is attack and counterattack. So he said something that God blessed and now perhaps Satan is using other means (that seem unrelated at first glance - but no coincidences exist in life) to create war. If these false attacks stick, he seems less reliable as a moral leader of our society and so his previous words are easier to ignore.

But God always wins out in the end. :dancing: :bowdown2: :bowdown: :clapping:

 

[Michael_David]

Here in the States, we have seen people leaving the Church since the 80’s. A whole generation, for the most part, is missing from Sunday Services. Where they went, if anywhere, is beyond me. Seems they just try to sober-up on Sunday mornings, rather then go to Church.

Some are starting to come back now, but that generation is still a minority in the Church. The older ‘boomers’ are still there, but it’s the younger ‘boomers’ that are lost.

What is happening in Europe now is not because of the Pope, that is just an excuse… any excuse will do, when you want to leave in the first place. As what happened here, any excuse or no excuse was needed. It’s like the Harvest when the grain is being sifted from the chaff. This is how I see it, and it’s been happening for some decades.

 

[1holycatholic]

Here in the States, we have seen people leaving the Church since the 80’s. A whole generation, for the most part, is missing from Sunday Services. Where they went, if anywhere, is beyond me. Seems they just try to sober-up on Sunday mornings, rather then go to Church.

Some are starting to come back now, but that generation is still a minority in the Church. The older ‘boomers’ are still there, but it’s the younger ‘boomers’ that are lost.

**What is happening in Europe now is not because of the Pope, that is just an excuse… any excuse will do, when you want to leave in the first place. **As what happened here, any excuse or no excuse was needed. It’s like the Harvest when the grain is being sifted from the chaff. This is how I see it, and it’s been happening for some decades.

+1,000,000

 

[wcknight]

AT first I was a little apprehensive about this pope possibly being too strict, following Pope John Paul II, who was so loved by both Catholics and non-Catholics.

But Pope Benedict has rated 100% in my book and is in total agreement with the spirit and policies of his predecessor. He has been concillitory and patient with those who have left the Church. He has been firm in supporting human rights. Now if he can just convince Obama to go Pro-Life.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Many things of the old, especially so of the New Testament happen again and again.

In John 6:65 Jesus made clear, that nobody can follow Him, if he is not given this Gift of being able to follow Jesus and UNDERSTAND, which is not given to many who think they are the better Christians, but in fact are Pharisees.

When those who followed Jesus heard this bold word, many of Jesus’ disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

So Jesus asked those Twelve who remained: “You do not want to leave too, do you?” And Peter who later was the first Pope, said: “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Yesterday I spoke to a theologian of the ordination “Of The Holy Family”. He said: Yes, sad though, that the church at our time gets smaller. But those who are true, will form a better church.
**

 

[Michael_David]

Yesterday I spoke to a theologian of the ordination “Of The Holy Family”. He said: Yes, sad though, that the church at our time gets smaller. But those who are true, will form a better church.

Ah, quality over quantity…

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

Ah, quality over quantity…

,

Yes. And it’s right so too. What use are Catholics in our Church, who know nothing about Christianity.
On the other hand: We in Germany pay ChurchTax - which is 10% of the income-tax. Those laving Church don’t have to pay Church-tax.
And I’m very much sure, that many of those who left the Church, did it for monetary reasons

This of course weakens the church too

Church Tax is the one and only tax I like paying!

**

 

[Michael_David]

**,

Yes. And it’s right so too. What use are Catholics in our Church, who know nothing about Christianity.
On the other hand: We in Germany pay ChurchTax - which is 10% of the income-tax. Those laving Church don’t have to pay Church-tax.
And I’m very much sure, that many of those who left the Church, did it for monetary reasons

This of course weakens the church too

Church Tax is the one and only tax I like paying!

**

So it comes down to money! Not Charity!

Tell me more… how did that Church Tax get started? Is it country-wide and given to all the different Churches, or started by the Church itself for it’s own support?

Our Churches still rely on ‘charitable’ contributions by the parishioners… no tax enforced, even tax deductible.

Could a little of what is going on in the UK with the Catholic and Protestant (mostly Ireland) and how it becomes a ‘sanctioned’ State Church, but only one Church can be this? Is this moving into Europe? Does it allow for Multiple Religions in the one Country?

You got me curious now…

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**
Hi there,
let me just answer to the Tax-matter…
the rest of your question I didn’t quite get - might be becaus it’s too late now -)

Yes Michael, it is sadly enough a matter of Church-Tax, that to too many over here makes the decision of to stay or not to stay in Church ridiculous and unworthy of a Christian, but that’s how it is

Church-Tax over here was decided for in 1920 – the “Weimarer Republik”. Then Hitler who took over in 1933 – just to shut up Pope Pius XIIth who made the Nazies the hell of a mess, agreed to the continuations of Church-Tax in Germany and Austria. Today well 70% of the income of BOTH ! Churches – Cath. and Protestant, origins of Church-Tax – but it’s decreasing, as people leave Church

This tax people pay however voluntarily. Well – not quite, as things are such, that you have to pay this tax by law, if you are member of either Church.

So: If people don’t want to pay this tax, they “simply” leave Church. They have to register at the administrative bodies, that they no longer belong to a church.

I myself think that’s a severe sin – but people don’t care nowadays. I often heard people say: Hey – are you nuts to still pay Church-Tax – I bloody well left that club :-(((((

So – in fact – Church-Tax is a very double-edged sword.
Stupid people cling it to “a club” (and don’t pay)
Intelligent know it’s strengthening the most important constitution we have.

I’m glad to pay church tax to the Rom. Cath. Church! And I wouldn’t dare to stop this! Not because I fear the anger of God, but because I want to strengthen our Church!
**

 

[Michael_David]

Seems our eternal fate comes down to ‘choices’.

Yes, we have to make choices everyday. Some are merely secular, some are intellectual, and then there are those that are spiritual… and this is where the grain is sifted from the chaff.

I like your choice to continue on with it. I’d do it here if it came down to that… rather then ‘deny’ one’s Faith.

Thanks for the reply. My ancestors are from your near North East. Not one of the countries you mention with the Church Tax though.

Yes, we can both smile and be happy… you because you pay it (for support) as a tax, and me because I pay it (for support) as charity.

Keep smiling…

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**In Switzerland it used to be such (at least years ago - I don’t know if it’s still so) that one could choose: Either to pay church tax as here in Germany, or - if not - pay the same amount to a charity organisation of your choice.
That way, people don’t walk off the church just for monetary reasons Good thing I think.
However: Either I belong to the Chath. Church FULLY - or not at all.

At the moment by the way, Dalai Lama is in Germany. People celebrate him as if he’d be a Saint. That sucks me

In the papers you read “nobody fights so much for peace as he does”.
Rubbish! - The Pope does so too and with a lot more efficiency.

When Dalai Lama says: Don’t use force, it seems as if someone’d say: No Hillbilly-Village, don’t use force against the USA! How could this little spot Tibet, use force against China?!

I’ll never understand ho people can celebrate a Nonchristian, as he is on the wrong way. Any way that’s not Jesus way, is the wrong way. And so many from the west prefer the Buddhist way, to that of Jesus Christ (Mt 24,11: many false prophets will appear and deceive many people).

**