Is a catholic restaurant owner sinning if he serves meat on Fridays during Lent?

[maryjk]

Aside from that, I seriously think you may want to ask for a second medical opinion, since while meat can help your anemia,a lot of pork and red meat,in most of your meals can jeopardize other areas of your health.(your cholesterol, triglicerides,too much protein for your kidneys, and a higher propensity to cancer associated with high consumption of red meat.)Take good care of yourself and may God bless you.Tam

Thanks anyway. I am fine with the medical care that I received last year. (People with Celiac generally have very low cholesterol and low tryiglicerides. Keep in mind, I said this diet was last year. This is not a life long diet.) Eating red meat is the fastest safest way to raise your iron levels. It is a very common recommendation to someone with low iron and Celiac.

Can’t the .01% of the population that needs to eat meat on these days, simply cook at home?

Generally I do cook at home. Most restaurants won’t cook gluten free. Of those that will, most only have a few choices. Most of those choices include pork or beef.

I guess I am coming to this from a different place then most.

When I do go out, and it isn’t very often, I need to order something gluten free. Because of that, I am already limited in what I can order. Most of the time, the only options that I have include beef or pork of some sort. Because of that, I never eat out on Fridays during Lent. During the rest of the year, I am willing to eat out on a Friday. But instead of abstaining from meat, I pray a rosary or attend daily Mass or fast from TV or computer or I do some other type of penance.

So, yes, if I walked into a restaurant that didn’t serve meat because it was Friday, I would most likely leave. Mainly because that would most likely take away any chance of ordering something gluten free.

 

[Yankee_Trad]

Can’t the .01% of the population that needs wheelchairs to get around in public just stay at home?

If you order red meat from a restaurant on these days, then you encourage it to continue to do so.

However, you can roll your wheelchair without fear, any day of the week, including Sunday! Trust me.

Tamsulosin:

No dessert waiter? Sorry we are out of desserts today.But I can offer you tea or coffee ,gladly.

What kind of restaurant scales down it’s menu for one day? It’s better to close.

 

[LilyM]

If I own a drug store, would it be all right if I sold contraceptives? Would anyone be moved not to buy them, if I refuse to sell them?

If people want to do something wrong, they will. But, I don’t have to be a part of it.

Apples and oranges. Someone who is selling contraceptives is themselves sinning by selling them. Contraception is an intrinsic evil, unlike eating meat on Friday. And unlike everyone who uses contraceptives, not EVERYONE who eats meat on Good Friday is sinning by doing so. In fact since under 14s aren’t bound to abstain that’s a sizeable chunk of the population for whom it’s no sin at all. Why not make a charitable effort to cater to kids who are allowed to eat meat?

There’s a lovely story about St Francis of Assisi - one of his brothers who was ordered to eat meat for his health didn’t do so, since at that time abstinence from meat was a general rule of the Order. Not only did St Francis insist on his eating meat, but insisted that ALL the brothers in that community eat it together with the brother who needed it. That’s charity in action, my friend.

 

[Yankee_Trad]

LilyM:

Apples and oranges. Someone who is selling contraceptives is themselves sinning by selling them. Contraception is an intrinsic evil, unlike eating meat on Friday. And unlike everyone who uses contraceptives, not EVERYONE who eats meat on Good Friday is sinning by doing so. In fact since under 14s aren’t bound to abstain that’s a sizeable chunk of the population for whom it’s no sin at all. Why not make a charitable effort to cater to kids who are allowed to eat meat?

As I said in an earlier post, you can be sure that alot of your customers will be adult Catholics (who have no exemptions), who will disregard the abstinence rule. How would you feel knowing, that some of your patrons are committing mortal sin in your restaurant? You would be helping those people to sin. You may not know which ones exactly are sinning but, you are enabling them to do so.

There’s a lovely story about St Francis of Assisi - one of his brothers who was ordered to eat meat for his health didn’t do so, since at that time abstinence from meat was a general rule of the Order. Not only did St Francis insist on his eating meat, but insisted that ALL the brothers in that community eat it together with the brother who needed it. That’s charity in action, my friend.

Was abstinence from meat a general rule for them every day of the year, as your statement implies? Did this episode happen on Ash Wednesday or, a Lenten friday. I can hardly imagine St Francis breaking that rule on those days.

 

[PapaSquash]

No dessert waiter?
Sorry we are out of desserts today.But I can offer you tea or coffee ,gladly.

Yup, that’s pretty much how you’d do it.

 

[ProVobis]

Eating red meat is the fastest safest way to raise your iron levels.

Isn’t this a female thing, though? I haven’t heard iron deficiency in men to be a problem. But then I’m not a nutritionist and have to keep my cholestrol levels below 100.

 

[LilyM]

As I said in an earlier post, you can be sure that alot of your customers will be adult Catholics (who have no exemptions), who will disregard the abstinence rule. How would you feel knowing, that some of your patrons are committing mortal sin in your restaurant? You would be helping those people to sin. You may not know which ones exactly are sinning but, you are enabling them to do so.

Uh, no I can’t, not unless I choose to quiz the people ordering meat on their religion and health status - which I’m not obliged to do by any means. And assuming they answer truly, which they might not if they know I’d deny meat dishes to Catholics. And if I attempted to find out, they’d certainly ALL get offended and leave, with no exceptions.

Enabling them to sin? So they’re not responsible for what they put in their own gob while I AM?

Even a wife, while she needs to make every effort to persuade her husband not to have a vasectomy, is not obliged to stop having sex with him should he decide in spite of her protests to be sterilised, even though she is in effect enabling him to commit a mortal sin by having sex with him. That’s church teaching.

Adults (in general) are more largely responsible for their own souls and less largely responsible for the souls of other adults than you seem to think.

Was abstinence from meat a general rule for them every day of the year, as your statement implies? Did this episode happen on Ash Wednesday or, a Lenten friday. I can hardly imagine St Francis breaking that rule on those days.

Yes it was a general rule for every day, on my understanding. Not sure what time of year it was when this occurred, but the sabbath (and Lenten Fridays) were made for man, not man for the Sabbath or Lenten Fridays. So it’s entirely possible that he’d consider that brother’s health a sufficiently grave reason to dispense the others from abstaining if needed, if the brother wouldn’t eat meat as his health required without them doing so.

Obedience is important, but equally so is care for the welfare of others, and if you can miss Mass for the sake of looking after another who is sick, then surely you can be dispensed from the obligation to abstain for the same reason.

 

[PapaSquash]

As I said in an earlier post, you can be sure that alot of your customers will be adult Catholics (who have no exemptions), who will disregard the abstinence rule. How would you feel knowing, that some of your patrons are committing mortal sin in your restaurant? You would be helping those people to sin. You may not know which ones exactly are sinning but, you are enabling them to do so.

Was abstinence from meat a general rule for them every day of the year, as your statement implies? Did this episode happen on Ash Wednesday or, a Lenten friday. I can hardly imagine St Francis breaking that rule on those days.

How can I be sure that I fed a lot of adult Catholics yesterday who disregarded the abstinence rule? Clam Chowder, Tuna melts, tilapia sandwiches and veggie omelets were flying out of the kitchen. I think the Catholic population of America is about 25%; I’m sure close to half the items I sold yesterday were meatless. Based on the demographics I’d bet there were more meatless Lutherans than mortally sinning Catholics at my place yesterday. I choose to open and serve meat and I’m certain that I’m not sinning, (in that regard at least) If you’d choose to close then go ahead. In all sincerety, I recommend instead that you choose not to open in the first place - the auction houses are already full of the detritus of broken dreams.

 

[Yankee_Trad]

Uh, no I can’t, not unless I choose to quiz the people ordering meat on their religion and health status - which I’m not obliged to do by any means. And assuming they answer truly, which they might not if they know I’d deny meat dishes to Catholics. And if I attempted to find out, they’d certainly ALL get offended and leave, with no exceptions.

Consider these facts:

*Mass attendance: A more recent study by Fordham University professor James Lothian concluded that 65 percent of Catholics went to Sunday Mass in 1965, while the rate dropped to 25 percent in 2000.

The decline in Mass attendance highlights another significant fact — fewer and fewer people who call themselves Catholic actually follow Church rules or accept Church doctrine. For example, a 1999 poll by the National Catholic Reporter shows that 77 percent believe a person can be a good Catholic without going to Mass every Sunday, 65 percent believe good Catholics can divorce and remarry, and 53 percent believe Catholics can have abortions and remain in good standing. Only 10 percent of lay religion teachers accept Church teaching on artificial birth control, according to a 2000 University of Notre Dame poll. And a New York Times poll revealed that 70 percent of Catholics age 18-44 believe the Eucharist is merely a “symbolic reminder” of Jesus.*

If you have, for example, 100 Catholic customers on Good Friday. Do you really believe all 100 will abstain from meat?

Enabling them to sin? So they’re not responsible for what they put in their own gob while I AM?

They’re responsible for what they buy. I’m responsible for what I sell.

Adults (in general) are more largely responsible for their own souls and less largely responsible for the souls of other adults than you seem to think.

I’m only responsible not to partake in someone else’s sin.

 

[Tamsulosin]

It is funny,the constant hammering that the restaurant has to close ,unless red meat is served. Are you trying to get rid of the competition Papasquash?

The suggestion that the restaurant would go bankrupt because a very few fridays a year(Lenten Fridays) the restaurant changes the menu, does not make sense,unless it
is already bound to become wreckage to start with, which is completely unrelated to your serving tilapia instead of bloody prime rib on those so limited occasions.

I am not saying it is a sin,that is the reason for the thread. I do not know.But I, prefer to honor the day ,and if I were to lose a few dollars, so be it. When in doubt ,abstain.

With regards to all the 14 year olds flocking to my restaurant to be fed,I do not think
that they are going to be debilitated by eating a red meat alternative in one of the meals of a particular day.Really!

 

[Tamsulosin]

Or if your restaurant were nearby,PapaSquash, I would direct all the-I-must-eat red meat demanders to you,although I do not know how you would feel about it. But you would be making great profits, on the sacred Lenten Fridays. Wasn’t that your concern?

 

[Tamsulosin]

Besides,whether Mother Church in our country requires abstinence or not,(apparently in Canada is different,see previous post)one doesn’t feel hungry for all that heavy meal on those sad days. It is like the stomach is half closed.
But if all we think is money,we may as well call our restaurant" Judas’ Bistro".

 

[Lujack]

If you have, for example, 100 Catholic customers on Good Friday. Do you really believe all 100 will abstain from meat?

Actually, yes. Meatless Fridays has a very strange sticking power with people. My roommate at college is a lapsed Catholic who hasn’t been to Mass in three years; no meat for him. I know people in the double digits who are the same way: they haven’t been to Mass in a very long time, and yet they still eat fish on Lenten Fridays.

 

[PapaSquash]

Or if your restaurant were nearby,PapaSquash, I would direct all the-I-must-eat red meat demanders to you,although I do not know how you would feel about it. But you would be making great profits, on the sacred Lenten Fridays. Wasn’t that your concern?

My concern is the same as always - feeding God’s children so they can go about their business and making a living to support my family in the meantime.

No independent operator is making “great profits” in this business unless he’s selling more booze than food. I don’t sell any alcohol - I’m breakfast and lunch only.

As for how I’d feel, I’m not sure I’d care enough to register any emotion. Catholics who insist on meat on Lenten Fridays are so small a demographic that they don’t even register. There are more people who would insist that these people weren’t Catholic anyway for ignoring the discipline, than people who care that I don’t publish a separate menu for eight days a year. My confessor doesn’t care. He had lunch here with two brother priests yesterday. The meat-eaters are non-Catholics. It is in no way bad for them to eat meat on Fridays. It is in no way bad for me to serve it to them.

People come in and they order what they want from the published bill of fare. My job is to get it safely and quickly to the table. I’m not lording it over an army of serfs to get it done, I’m kinda busy. Times are tough - I’m the fool on the grill.

I’d feel I was sinning if I didn’t have an obvious selection of meatless options available. ( I do this every Friday - Lent or no, because abstinence from meat is still the suggested penance on Fridays.) Just as I would feel I was sinning if I supported the local smut-encrusted free newsweekly with my advertising dollars. So I don’t.

It might be arguable that it could be sinful If I were to offer a “special” great price on a beef tenderloin sandwich and feature it prominently on a Lenten Friday, as I’d be making an effort to market that item specifically, knowing it might tempt people who should, by obedience to the Church, abstain. But the menu that is already in place is not at all the same thing.

 

[Tamsulosin]

What transpired from your answers is that you are a fine person,PapaSquash .Thank
you for letting me know your reasoning.

 

[PapaSquash]

What transpired from your answers is that you are a fine person,PapaSquash .Thank
you for letting me know your reasoning.

Thank you. Please allow me to apologize if the tone of my answers were in any way offensive. I got a bit cranky at the suggestion that I might be sinning, and may have been abrasive.

It did give me something to think about.

 

[PJM]

=Tamsulosin;5001543]Being a business open to people of all faiths,should he change the menu on Fridays during Lent,or it is acceptable by the Catholic Church that he provides meat on those days of abstinence?

He does not have to change his menu, but should offer, both as a Chrsitian and a business person, reasonable alteratives.

Even if the cook taste test what is being prepared it would not be a sin."

Hover one cannot decide on there own to eat meat in defiance of Official teaching.

 

[dixibehr]

Consider this:

The Orthodox Churches and most Byzantine Catholic churches abstain not only from meat, but from fish, dairy products, and eggs by precept not only on Fridays, but during ALL the 40 days of Lent.

And without going into detail, Orthodox and many Eastern Catholics have Easter on another day from the West (this year it’s a week later), so therefore Lent starts at a different time.

So you could well phrase your question, “Because many Catholics are bound to a stricter fast and abstinence than others, is it a sin for a Catholic restaurant owner to serve cheese and fish on Thursday in Lent?”

The Latin Church is NOT the totality of the Catholic Church, you know.

 

[Shin]

Consider this:

The Orthodox Churches and most Byzantine Catholic churches abstain not only from meat, but from fish, dairy products, and eggs by precept not only on Fridays, but during ALL the 40 days of Lent.

And without going into detail, Orthodox and many Eastern Catholics have Easter on another day from the West (this year it’s a week later), so therefore Lent starts at a different time.

So you could well phrase your question, “Because many Catholics are bound to a stricter fast and abstinence than others, is it a sin for a Catholic restaurant owner to serve cheese and fish on Thursday in Lent?”

The Latin Church is NOT the totality of the Catholic Church, you know.

In some countries one does not reasonably expect to encounter Eastern Catholics in any significant numbers, because after all Eastern Catholics are Eastern. So certainly while one would know this, one would also know that.

 

[Tamsulosin]

Dixiebehr:Sorry, I did not know that.I would have frased the question differently I guess.