Is a church membership needed for salvation?

[tevans9129]

It is my opinion that it matters not to which “church” one belongs to, or any church for that matter, as to salvation, only the condition of the heart and if one has sincerely accepted Christ as their Savior. What says you and do you have scripture supporting your answer? Bear

 

[wsxyz]

It is my opinion that it matters not to which “church” one belongs to, or any church for that matter, as to salvation, only the condition of the heart and if one has sincerely accepted Christ as their Savior. What says you and do you have scripture supporting your answer?

The words of Christ: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

 

[tevans9129]

I am not the brightest lamp in the room so can you explain your comment relative to my question. Thanks, Bear.

 

[GloriousOrder]

Please read and reflect on the words of the Holy Gospel according to St. Matthew, my friend.

In the eighteenth chapter of Matthew, our Lord is quite clear that there is only one Church, and that it is institutional/physical. I’m referring to verses 15-17. He tells the Apostles to rebuke a sinner in private, and if he won’t listen to one, then bring a friend and rebuke him together. If the sinner remains obstinate, our Lord says, the two of you should “tell the church”, and “if he will not bear with the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the publican”. Now, anyone who knows the history of Roman-occupied Palestine knows that publicans were immoral tax collectors who overcharged everyone and kept much for themselves after having given the Romans their share. Publicans were ostracised and “kicked out” of Jewish society.

There is One Church, and it is truly holy, universal, and apostolic!

Here is Matthew 18:17 in Greek:

ἐὰν δὲ παρακούσῃ αὐτῶν, εἰπὲ τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ: ἐὰν δὲ καὶ τῆς ἐκκλησίας παρακούσῃ, ἔστω σοι ὥσπερ ὁ ἐθνικὸς καὶ ὁ τελώνης.

In Latin:

Quod si non audierit, eos dic ecclesiae si autem et ecclesiam; non audierit, sit tibi sicut ethnicus et publicanus."

In both the Septuagint and the Vulgate, I believe our Lord uses the word for “church” that is singular, universal, and united, not referring to a local church/assembly.

 

[wsxyz]

I am not the brightest lamp in the room so can you explain your comment relative to my question. Thanks, Bear.

In Chapter 66 of Justin Martyr’s First Apology, he describes transformation of the Eucharist: “For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Saviour was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apology 66:1-20 [A.D. 148]).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Apology_of_Justin_Martyr
newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

 

[tevans9129]

Thanks for the reply, perhaps I need to rephrase my question, as I do not see the answer in your response, is it mandatory to belong to a “church” to gain salvation?

Bear

 

[arabic_catholic]

Christ started one Church to guide christians and he himself gave it the authority, being outside of tha Church of christ does not make any sense and it leads to confusion

The church hold tradition that goes back to the time of the apostles and the bible as we know it came from that tradition

the new testament talked about a church in the book of act that made a council to solve the problems of the time and peter practice his authority , its clear that the church was visible and it was there from the begining , and thank God for it because she(the church) brought to us the original christianity of the first century christians !!

if you study the church fathers you will see clearly that there was only one church , not 2 or three , and whenever a problem came to them they will solve it in a council

so yes its important to be part of the church and to understand the teachings of the church . and you will be AMAZED how biblical is the catholic church!! and i can say its more biblical then any other church

 

[tevans9129]

In Chapter 66 of Justin Martyr’s First Apology,

Thanks for the info wsxyz, however, I would like to have scripture supporting your view, not the opinion of other men. I think we can agree that with the internet, one can find support for most any view one may have. IMO, if it cannot be proven with scripture, then it is only the opinion of the one expressing his views. Bear

 

[Vico]

It is my opinion that it matters not to which “church” one belongs to, or any church for that matter, as to salvation, only the condition of the heart and if one has sincerely accepted Christ as their Savior. What says you and do you have scripture supporting your answer? Bear

Technically speaking if one has been validly baptised, and in a state of grace at death and they are saved. The Catholic Church states that it contains the fullness of the faith and that other Christian particular churches and ecclesial communities do not have that fullness. It does require more than faith however. Baptism gives us the faith and hope and charity necessary though the Holy Spirit, yet we may turn away from God and loose our charity, in which case we are no longer saved. It is possible to certainly receive forgiveness for this, restoring friendship with God, with contrition, through the Holy Mystery of Confession. Perfect contrition will also bring forgivness, yet for one baptised Catholic will loose their charity if they leave the practice of the Catholic faith.

 

[tevans9129]

In both the Septuagint and the Vulgate, I believe our Lord uses the word for “church” that is singular, universal, and united, not referring to a local church/assembly.

It was my understanding that the Septuagint was OT, where exactly does it talk about the “church”, could you provide c & v please? Bear

 

[Elsport1]

wsxyz;7868134:

In Chapter 66 of Justin Martyr’s First Apology,

I would like to have scripture supporting your view, not the opinion of other men.

So where do you think you got your Bible from? God did not have the heavens rain down with complete Bible’s. The Bible was put together by men who had their opinions (obviously led by the Holy Spirit) about what was the inerrant word of God and what was not. By the way these men who put the Bible together were all part of the Catholic church.

IMO, if it cannot be proven with scripture, then it is only the opinion of the one expressing his views. Bear

This is actually a huge problem with protestantism. How does one know if his opinion is right? On almost any subject people twist the word of God to say whatever they want it to say. The Catholic church offers THE authentic interpretation of the scriptures.

 

[wsxyz]

Thanks for the info wsxyz, however, I would like to have scripture supporting your view, not the opinion of other men. I think we can agree that with the internet, one can find support for most any view one may have. IMO, if it cannot be proven with scripture, then it is only the opinion of the one expressing his views.

Justin, writing in the year 148 A.D. relates that he and all of the Christians believed, as they were taught before their baptism, that the bread and wine he received at Mass was not common bread and wine at all, but the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ.

Of course at the time he was writing, there was no such thing as “The New Testament” so he can be forgiven, perhaps, for not quoting chapter and and verse to back himself up. Still, he certainly had heard the gospels and various other writings, perhaps including some or all of the epistles of St. Paul, read aloud at Mass.

“the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.”

“For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.”

 

[ConstantineTG]

Thanks for the reply, perhaps I need to rephrase my question, as I do not see the answer in your response, is it mandatory to belong to a “church” to gain salvation?

Bear

It is mandatory to belong to THE Church, the one Christ founded on Peter.

 

[tevans9129]

. Perfect contrition will also bring forgivness, yet for one baptised Catholic will loose their charity if they leave the practice of the Catholic faith.

Thanks for the response Vico, would you care to explain the verses that I have quoted below and answer the questions that I have asked?

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Do you see any qualifiers in v9, are there any exceptions, are there any “ifs or buts”?

Romans 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

I see nothing in v10 about belonging to any “church”, do you?

Romans 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

I “believe on Him” with all my heart, I have confessed with my mouth that Jesus is Lord, I believe that God raised Him from the dead, I have confessed my sins to Him and have asked His forgiveness and that He will be my Lord and Savior, however, I am not Catholic, therefore, is it your opinion that I do not have salvation?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

I have faith that the Lord will do as He promises and that I am saved by His grace, not by anything that I have done, or not done.

Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

If one must do works for salvation, is salvation then a “gift of God” or, is it something that we have earned?

Bear

 

[tevans9129]

J

“the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.”

“For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.”

That is great scripture; can you explain how it translates into the need to be a member of a church for salvation? If, that is your point. Bear

 

[tevans9129]

It is mandatory to belong to THE Church, the one Christ founded on Peter.

Can you provide a c & v for your assertion? Bear

 

[cemiller]

That is great scripture; can you explain how it translates into the need to be a member of a church for salvation? If, that is your point. Bear

I think that what he is trying to say is that you must belong to the church to recieve the flesh and blood that Jesus speaks of. I could be wrong about his intent, but I would guess that this is what he’s trying to get to…

 

[Elsport1]

Thanks for the response Vico, would you care to explain the verses that I have quoted below and answer the questions that I have asked?
Where did the Bible come from??? How can you use something the Catholic Church put together to attempt to disprove the teachings of the Catholic church?

The scriptures need to be taken as a whole. Not as little one liner’s. Remember the Bible was not originally broken down into chapter and verse.

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Don’t most serious Satanists believe that Jesus is Lord and that he was raised from the dead? Are they saved?

Do you see any qualifiers in v9, are there any exceptions, are there any “ifs or buts”?
see above comment.

Romans 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

What exactly must one confess? I’m not sure if just reading this line you can say.

I see nothing in v10 about belonging to any “church”, do you?
No, I don’t. But also if I read the entire Bible I won’t find anything about sola scriptura or about being saved by “faith alone” in fact in the book of James it specifically says you can’t be saved by faith alone. To play your quote one line out of the Bible game here it is

James2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Romans 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

I “believe on Him” with all my heart, I have confessed with my mouth that Jesus is Lord, I believe that God raised Him from the dead, I have confessed my sins to Him and have asked His forgiveness and that He will be my Lord and Savior, however, I am not Catholic, therefore, is it your opinion that I do not have salvation?
The catholic church teaches no one is guaranteed of salvation until death, so no I don’t think you currently have salvation as you are obviously not currently in heaven. Do I think you will be saved if you continue to practice your faith outside of the one true faith? To put it bluntly, possibly; but not likely.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

I have faith that the Lord will do as He promises and that I am saved by His grace, not by anything that I have done, or not done.
Once again see James 2:24

Also we are saved through faith, and it is an unmerited gift from God…but that doesn’t mean we don’t have to do anything to keep the gift.

Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

If one must do works for salvation, is salvation then a “gift of God” or, is it something that we have earned?
We can NEVER earn heaven the sin of Adam guaranteed that. The gift of God was to open the doors to heaven again to us…we can always choose not to follow the “narrow way”.

Mathew 7:14 For narrow the gate and straitened the way that leads to life, and they are few who find it.

If it were as easy as saying I believe in you Jesus, I’m sorry for my sins would the way to heaven really be through a “narrow gate”?

It’s late and way past my bedtime so hopefully I my post is coherent. Best wishes and prayers in your quest for Truth.

Bear

 

[Vico]

tevans9129,

We must cooperate with God’s gift of the Holy Spirit to us to remain in holiness for our salvation. Christ is present to us in his body the Church. Those cannot be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, and refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

James 2:24-26
24 See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Matt 16:15-19
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Mark 16:15-16
15 He said to them, "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 20:21-23
21 (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Mark 2:10
10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth"

 

[Elsport1]

John 6:51-55

[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven. [52] If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. [53] The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? [54] Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. [55] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Tevans, are you eating the flesh of the son of man? I imagine you’ll answer no. So will God raise you up on the last day?