Is a drum kit a Suitable instrument for Mass?

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PatriceA said:
And that’s fine if its not your liking. But to say its inappropriate across the board, is what I take exception to. Not every form of music and instruments for Mass is going to appeal to everyone. That is what is so beautiful about our Catholic faith, there is room for all tastes of music for Mass.
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But it’s not about “taste.” It’s about preserving sacral nature and instruments that preserve the full range of human emotion, experience, and feeling. Guitars and drums are excellent at producing happy, upbeat music, but horrible at producing solemn music, sad music, music of thanksgiving, music of adoration, music of petition, music that expresses a vast range of feelings expressed throughout the history, trials, tribulations, highs and lows of our 2000 or so years of history as His Church.

Guitars and drums don’t have the range to do that. Pipe organs do, and, to basically the same extent, so do other classical instruments, particularly with support of the organ.

Let me say something: I completely enjoy the sound of a well-played guitar, and with the support of drums and perhaps other instruments. Nevertheless, I must say that I do find the music generally banal and incapable of producing sounds expressive of the full range of human emotions and experiences. Pipe organs are MASSIVE instruments capable of producing a mind-boggling repertoire of sounds.

I don’t necessarily like the sound of all, or even much organ music. Would I probably rather listen to some common pop song? Depends on the organ song it’s compared to. I like the sound of Christian music played with more modern instruments as much as the next guy, but I still think it’s completely inappropriate for mass. I base my opinion not on my personal subjective inclination, but on a rational, logical approach.

I think most people, with a little coaxing at times, will admit that music played on modern instruments, and popular Christian music, is extremely banal, dull, repetitive, and consequently extremely low on the “art meter.” Even though I don’t necessarily like all organ music, I acknowledge that it is generally much more artistically sophisticated, rich, and emotive. Thus, it is more worthy of our supreme prayer which is the Holy Sacrifice of Mass.

Don’t get me wrong, you can play modern, banal, dull, repetitive music on an organ. I’ve heard it before. But the massive structure of the instrument usually seduces its player into playing more complex music.

I hope you’ve enjoyed my logical approach.
 
Rascalking said:
YES! Music is SO important to so many of us-would it really hurt to have a simple folk band in mass or something? Really? If your that upset by it-go to a different mass. I just don’t get it. Why would anyone be really against this?
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Because that kind of attitude is the root of division of our Church.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Because that kind of attitude is the root of division of our Church.
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LOL! I think your attitude causes division as well, so we agree on that.

Seriously, I’ve never understood why this is such a big issue. It’s not like people who like music are denying the real prescence, saying the pope isn’t infalible or arguing for reading Harry Potter! 😉

(just kidding on the Potter thing!)
 
Rascalking said:
LOL! I think your attitude causes division as well, so we agree on that.

Seriously, I’ve never understood why this is such a big issue. It’s not like people who like music are denying the real prescence, saying the pope isn’t infalible or arguing for reading Harry Potter! 😉

(just kidding on the Potter thing!)
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Lol, I think you have a point. A tiny tiny point. (Only in the first line, though).

Read my post, the longer one, on this page. I attempt to express the organ-advocate’s view.

Also, I highly doubt the Church, in the beloved and oft incorrectly-quoted Vatican Council II, crowned the pipe organ with “pride of place” for no reason, or for opinions only. Councils see real need somewhere, so they decree. I don’t think I’ve seen many Canons or council declarations based on opinion only. The pipe organ is the supreme instrument of the musical world simply because it expresses most clearly and with most power the full range of human emotion, experience, and feelings.

EDIT: Wow, I said, “Crown the pOpe organ,” at first. I only wish we crowned the pope still, haha.
 
Rascalking said:
LOL! I think your attitude causes division as well, so we agree on that.

Seriously, I’ve never understood why this is such a big issue. It’s not like people who like music are denying the real prescence, saying the pope isn’t infalible or arguing for reading Harry Potter! 😉

(just kidding on the Potter thing!)
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I am not posting this for the sake of argument. I do feel that we are terribly spoiled with a mistaken excess of tolerance in the USA.
If you like Jazz, drums, and other contemporary music, go to a night club or a dance club. That is where such music belongs, not a church or synagogue; and, especially not in a Catholic or Orthodox church. There are many parts of the world that such foolishness as Polka , Jazz, and pseudo-folk music masses would cause riots in the streets, because the people there still hold the Holy Rituals in proper awe and respects.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Lol, I think you have a point. A tiny tiny point. (Only in the first line, though).

Read my post, the longer one, on this page. I attempt to express the organ-advocate’s view.

Also, I highly doubt the Church, in the beloved and oft incorrectly-quoted Vatican Council II, crowned the pipe organ with “pride of place” for no reason, or for opinions only. Councils see real need somewhere, so they decree. I don’t think I’ve seen many Canons or council declarations based on opinion only. The pipe organ is the supreme instrument of the musical world simply because it expresses most clearly and with most power the full range of human emotion, experience, and feelings.

EDIT: Wow, I said, “Crown the pOpe organ,” at first. I only wish we crowned the pope still, haha.
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Seriously, thanks for just laughing, and seeing my point-even if it’s small one.
God bless you my friend.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Lol, I think you have a point. A tiny tiny point. (Only in the first line, though).

Read my post, the longer one, on this page. I attempt to express the organ-advocate’s view.

Also, I highly doubt the Church, in the beloved and oft incorrectly-quoted Vatican Council II, crowned the pipe organ with “pride of place” for no reason, or for opinions only. Councils see real need somewhere, so they decree. I don’t think I’ve seen many Canons or council declarations based on opinion only. The pipe organ is the supreme instrument of the musical world simply because it expresses most clearly and with most power the full range of human emotion, experience, and feelings.

EDIT: Wow, I said, “Crown the pOpe organ,” at first. I only wish we crowned the pope still, haha.
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As I said earlier…

previous to this crowning of the organ as pride of place, the church considered flutes too pagan for mass. and the organ is grouping of flutes.
 
George_Stegmeir said:
I am not posting this for the sake of argument. I do feel that we are terribly spoiled with a mistaken excess of tolerance in the USA.
If you like Jazz, drums, and other contemporary music, go to a night club or a dance club. That is where such music belongs, not a church or synagogue; and, especially not in a Catholic or Orthodox church. There are many parts of the world that such foolishness as Polka , Jazz, and pseudo-folk music masses would cause riots in the streets, because the people there still hold the Holy Rituals in proper awe and respects.
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No, I understand. There is nothing personal here, it’s all in good spirit, so don’t worry about “sake of argument” stuff, were all friends here in the long run. That’s my opinion.

I think there is a difference between a punk band or metal band (my two favorite types of music, though I also love show music…go figure!) and a light folk band with a drum or a guitar or something in church. I don’t see The Ramones playing hymns yet! 😉
 
agapewolf said:
As I said earlier…

previous to this crowning of the organ as pride of place, the church considered flutes too pagan for mass. and the organ is grouping of flutes.
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Then it seems like you have a problem with the decree of the Council. You can write the Holy See.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Then it seems like you have a problem with the decree of the Council. You can write the Holy See.
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No I don’t…there is absolutely NO need to be snarky. My goodness. You could have read my first post before snapping back. Geez, talk about attitudes creating division.

I like some organ. But when people go off on things declaring stuff as if it were cut and dry one way, they seem to forget that the liturgy has changed, and the church has countered its earlier ideas depending on the needs and culture of the people (I’m not talking doctrine, I’m talking liturgy and discipline).
 
agapewolf said:
No I don’t…there is absolutely NO need to be snarky. My goodness. You could have read my first post before snapping back. Geez, talk about attitudes creating division.

I like some organ. But when people go off on things declaring stuff as if it were cut and dry one way, they seem to forget that the liturgy has changed, and the church has countered its earlier ideas depending on the needs and culture of the people (I’m not talking doctrine, I’m talking liturgy and discipline).
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I wasn’t intending to be snarky. Internet forums don’t convey tone. I was thinking about using a smiley of some kind, but I opted against it, since I’ve found that it takes away from the seriousness of posts.

The beautiful thing about the pipe organ is that it’s adaptable to many cultures.
 
agapewolf said:
No I don’t…there is absolutely NO need to be snarky. My goodness. You could have read my first post before snapping back. Geez, talk about attitudes creating division.

I like some organ. But when people go off on things declaring stuff as if it were cut and dry one way, they seem to forget that the liturgy has changed, and the church has countered its earlier ideas depending on the needs and culture of the people (I’m not talking doctrine, I’m talking liturgy and discipline).
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  1. YTC wasn’t intending to be snarky.
  2. (S)he’s right.
 
TheMc said:
  1. YTC wasn’t intending to be snarky.
  2. (S)he’s right.
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Right or not, intentions don’t matter. I don’t think YTC meant to be snotty either, but we all-(myself more than others, I admit that) need to remember that sarcasm can’t always go through online, and sometimes people need to take things with a sense of humor or grain of salt.

In the long run, it doesn’t matter, but it’s a good thing to remember.
 
agapewolf said:
As I said earlier…

previous to this crowning of the organ as pride of place, the church considered flutes too pagan for mass.
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As you’ve made this claim already, do you have reference for this and in what context? A lot of things can be considered pagan.
and the organ is grouping of flutes.
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Also diapason, trumpet, reed, horn, viola, etc.
 
agapewolf said:
As I said earlier…

previous to this crowning of the organ as pride of place, the church considered flutes too pagan for mass. and the organ is grouping of flutes.
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A grouping of flutes is a flute choir, not an organ. An organ may have one or more groupings of different classifications of flutes but it would not be a very good organ if that’s all it had.

The Early Church considered anything other than the human voice as superficial and of less stature when compared to the human voice. The evolution of music was in quite a different place back then. Its no wonder instruments were not allowed. Compared to the capabilities of the human voice it should be obvious that the Early Church thought this way. They also were particularly sensitive to protecting the liturgy against those influences that were associated (not inherent) with certain instruments.

The same holds true today. The human voice is still the highest form. (Who can possibly deny that the form of Chant is most closely aligned with the sacred Liturgy???) The pipe organ has earned it pride of place if used appropriately and other instruments may be admitted if they can follow the same path.

It should also be obvious from this historical development that the Drum Set (a specific type of drums) is inappropriate for Mass for the very same reasons the Church has always taught. In this case, the drum set evolved for styles of music incompatible with the Sacred Liturgy for the same reasons usage of it and other instruments and styles were always forbidden.

Instruments they can be adapted to suit the purpose that has always been, they can be admitted. To make the case for a drum set is difficult given its association, as is an electric guitar, or even the style of rock vocal singing, for the very associations of secular influence the Church has always guarded against in the Liturgy are very closely related with these instruments. (You may also recall that around the turn of the previous century operatic style singing was also discouraged, not because the instrument was the voice, but because of the specific application and the origin of the secular influence from which that usage was derived.)

It is no small matter to consider the detrimental effect that the Liturgy can and surely will have through instruments that imitate and associate with these secular influences.

Joe B
 
It depends on the parish. It should not be used at every mass. I have been to masses where the drums where played and I liked the sound. It gave rhythm to these new songs that I really don’t care for, but I really loved seeing all these “younger than me” folks all joining in and singing praises to God. I was really inspired.

But no matter what is played at mass, no matter what priest is celebrating. The Eucharist is the Eucharist no matter what, and the Eucharist is the greatest gift to us. Greater than any instrument or song of praise.

However if you want my opinion. I love organ music during mass, or just songs sung a capella by everybody there. Even chant every once in a while. But I don’t expect everyone else to like my preference
 
How bout we have liturgical football too! That would get all the men going to Mass. We could just play the game right on a jumbo screen right behind the altar! And then John Madden could recite the Creed! “For us and for our salvation He was crucified BOOM!!!”

When will this nonsense end! Why don’t we just make Andrew Lloyd Weber a priest and have a Jesus Christ Superstar !! Mass?
 
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