Is a lot of popular modern music trying to imitate the emotions of achieving sanctity?

[John_Russell_Jr]

One has to wonder. I’d like peoples thoughts about this. It seems that much of the music our young people are listening to is designed to stir up emotions that are supposed to come from achieving a high level of sanctity. What I mean is if you listen to the music you can sense the underlying theme of - I’ve made it, I’m there now. These emotions are what we get to experience when we are saints. If this is so then I understand how people really want to experience these emotions. After all it’s the purpose of our existence to achieve sanctity and experience these emotions. But people are deluding themselves in a fantasy world if they think these songs will satisfy this need and they clearly don’t have a clue their doing this.
If you listen to a lot of christian rock it’s the same story. People get totally absorbed in the music and experience emotions that your supposed to get from becoming a saint but it’s just a delusion. They clearly don’t know or accept what I say here. But it seems to ring true with me. Traditional catholic hymns and gregorian chant don’t attempt to give you this euphoric feeling you get from becoming a saint and making it. They simply raise the mind to God and inspire awe and reverence etc. Do people know that this euphoric feeling of making it is only genuine and proper when one becomes a saint? I’m not saying people are evil because of this but they are deluded and living a fantasy in this area. What do you all think and do you have any other observations here?

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

I rembered something I saw on a music TV show. A quote from David Bowie that says he said - rock is the devils music.
I heard it myself where Michael Jackson says in a very oozy voice with oozy music in a pleading type manner - sell your soul.
Kizz - Gene Simmons has to be a satanist.
Marylin Manson is too.
And many great rock figures are certainly satanists.

Is the whole rock and pop etc scene dominated by satanists and is this type of music the devils work to give people these emotions that you could only get from sanctity until very recently? I think it might be. I understand many singers and bands are not like the above but have they been duped into the enemies plan unwittingly. So many people are experiencing false emotions of euphoria and having made it and it’s all a delusion because their not saints. When all you guys get back online I’d like your thoughts.

 

[Epistemes]

Hello,

Your first post I agree with, but your second one…I don’t know. It makes me very uncomfortable when people call any type of music “the devil’s music,” only because doing tends to avoid the real issues at the center of the music, the musicians, and why people enjoy listening to it.

For instance, last night I was reflecting on Kurt Cobain, lead man for the seminal grunge group Nirvana, who committed suicide during April 1994. A good friend’s brother, who is a musicologist, stated on his blog about three years ago that the album *In Utero *essentally reads like a suicide note. Whether you agree or disagree, I think it can be accurately stated that he was the most culturally relevant person of the 1990s: he was the jaded, disillusioned, angst-ridden Spokesman For The Generation (or so we thought until we learned that all those great anthems was his way of trying to tell us that he couldn’t handle it). Sad, really – but his death was iconic and ultimately representative of something much larger.

A realization that nearly all of us begin to make about the time that we’re coming of age is that there is a God-sized hole right in the middle of each of us, and I believe we spend the majority of our lives trying to fill that hole – oftentimes with anything other than God. For many, the vented frustration which Kurt Cobain himself embodied was one such way of attempting to deal with the existential loneliness and emptiness that is at the center of us all.

Can music be used as a substitution for the God experience? Yes, but so can food, sex, even our pets – it’s just that music, like the Psalms themselves, reflect an ideology concerning man’s relationship to himself and to the universe and to any notion of the Creator. Given that we are living in a society that is increasingly secular, and given that a number of people who call themselves “Christian” may not even believe (much less give thought to) in the Resurrection, is it any wonder that the songs which are being promoted by industry record companies reflect these values? Mankind is not alien to notions of hope, optimism, success, and transience, but the manner in which we attempt to achieve these goals greatly differ between us. Some may find that the lyrics of Scott Stapp seem to fill that God-sized hole, or others may try building their Facebook or MySpace page up with thousands of friends and information (and sometimes improper pictures) of and about themselves, but ultimately the emptiness and loneliness do remain.

Isn’t that where the Church should step in?

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Hello,

Your first post I agree with, but your second one…I don’t know. It makes me very uncomfortable when people call any type of music “the devil’s music,” only because doing tends to avoid the real issues at the center of the music, the musicians, and why people enjoy listening to it.

For instance, last night I was reflecting on Kurt Cobain, lead man for the seminal grunge group Nirvana, who committed suicide during April 1994. A good friend’s brother, who is a musicologist, stated on his blog about three years ago that the album *In Utero *essentally reads like a suicide note. Whether you agree or disagree, I think it can be accurately stated that he was the most culturally relevant person of the 1990s: he was the jaded, disillusioned, angst-ridden Spokesman For The Generation (or so we thought until we learned that all those great anthems was his way of trying to tell us that he couldn’t handle it). Sad, really – but his death was iconic and ultimately representative of something much larger.

A realization that nearly all of us begin to make about the time that we’re coming of age is that there is a God-sized hole right in the middle of each of us, and I believe we spend the majority of our lives trying to fill that hole – oftentimes with anything other than God. For many, the vented frustration which Kurt Cobain himself embodied was one such way of attempting to deal with the existential loneliness and emptiness that is at the center of us all.

Can music be used as a substitution for the God experience? Yes, but so can food, sex, even our pets – it’s just that music, like the Psalms themselves, reflect an ideology concerning man’s relationship to himself and to the universe and to any notion of the Creator. Given that we are living in a society that is increasingly secular, and given that a number of people who call themselves “Christian” may not even believe (much less give thought to) in the Resurrection, is it any wonder that the songs which are being promoted by industry record companies reflect these values? Mankind is not alien to notions of hope, optimism, success, and transience, but the manner in which we attempt to achieve these goals greatly differ between us. Some may find that the lyrics of Scott Stapp seem to fill that God-sized hole, or others may try building their Facebook or MySpace page up with thousands of friends and information (and sometimes improper pictures) of and about themselves, but ultimately the emptiness and loneliness do remain.

Isn’t that where the Church should step in?

Hello and thx for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’m not against all musicians and don’t think their all bad. I’m just exploring one big way many are being led astray today. Rock stars are the modern saints for so many. They present themselves as saints and talk / sing like saints. When I say saints I’m talking about the confused and ignorant souls who don’t know what a saint is , making them their saints.

I have something else I want to tell you. This is very providential. I’m very glad you dropped me a line in this thread. I first came across St Gemma a few weeks ago. I have a post in this forum about the end times incl. her revelation about the last century. I began to really like this saint and I made her one of my patrons a short while ago. After I found out she died and her feast day is on 11 April. This is my birthday. This blew me away. I’m very keen on this saint now. Only a few hrs ago I wrote to my spiritual director and told him a bit about this, and I know very little about this saint so I told him I was going to get everything I can to learn about her. I said I will pray to her from now on for certain things I need but I did not know any prayers. Then your signature has a website with the prayers I need. This is very exciting for me. I may have found a new friend above.

Can you recommend books or other websites on this saint I may like.

A big thx for posting. God bless you.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Hello,

Your first post I agree with, but your second one…I don’t know. It makes me very uncomfortable when people call any type of music “the devil’s music,” only because doing tends to avoid the real issues at the center of the music, the musicians, and why people enjoy listening to it.

For instance, last night I was reflecting on Kurt Cobain, lead man for the seminal grunge group Nirvana, who committed suicide during April 1994. A good friend’s brother, who is a musicologist, stated on his blog about three years ago that the album *In Utero *essentally reads like a suicide note. Whether you agree or disagree, I think it can be accurately stated that he was the most culturally relevant person of the 1990s: he was the jaded, disillusioned, angst-ridden Spokesman For The Generation (or so we thought until we learned that all those great anthems was his way of trying to tell us that he couldn’t handle it). Sad, really – but his death was iconic and ultimately representative of something much larger.

A realization that nearly all of us begin to make about the time that we’re coming of age is that there is a God-sized hole right in the middle of each of us, and I believe we spend the majority of our lives trying to fill that hole – oftentimes with anything other than God. For many, the vented frustration which Kurt Cobain himself embodied was one such way of attempting to deal with the existential loneliness and emptiness that is at the center of us all.

Can music be used as a substitution for the God experience? Yes, but so can food, sex, even our pets – it’s just that music, like the Psalms themselves, reflect an ideology concerning man’s relationship to himself and to the universe and to any notion of the Creator. Given that we are living in a society that is increasingly secular, and given that a number of people who call themselves “Christian” may not even believe (much less give thought to) in the Resurrection, is it any wonder that the songs which are being promoted by industry record companies reflect these values? Mankind is not alien to notions of hope, optimism, success, and transience, but the manner in which we attempt to achieve these goals greatly differ between us. Some may find that the lyrics of Scott Stapp seem to fill that God-sized hole, or others may try building their Facebook or MySpace page up with thousands of friends and information (and sometimes improper pictures) of and about themselves, but ultimately the emptiness and loneliness do remain.

Isn’t that where the Church should step in?

It’s about 3-30am here and bed time nears. If you can recommend books , websites etc it’s appreciated. I’ll look for a reply later. I thought you might like to know being a St Gemma fan that I’m having a small debate with my spiritual director to let me make a website about victim souls this past few weeks and St Gemma has come along in the process. I’ve entrusted the site to her and she’ll feature on it if it’s made now. I’ll make her it’s patron. So any good resources on her is appreciated. God bless and good night to you.

 

[Epistemes]

Can you recommend books or other websites on this saint I may like.

I’ve PMed you. Don’t want this thread to fall off track so early.

 

[MarieVeronica]

But people are deluding themselves in a fantasy world if they think these songs will satisfy this need and they clearly don’t have a clue their doing this.

I agree with you, John. Sad, isn’t it. The words of St. Augustine come to mind… “Our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee, O Lord”.

So many people… looking for happiness in all the wrong places.

 

[Monica4316]

Hi

the interesting thing I noticed from reading about the Saints, is that when they became Saints they didn’t feel that they “made it”, they actually felt great contrition for sin, and often went through terrible sufferings and ‘the dark night of the soul’… some of them had ecstasies and saw visions but their sanctity consisted of their love for God and humility, and patience during trials.

But I see what you are saying in a way.

I noticed with some modern Christian “praise and worship” music (which is mostly Protestant) - that it affects people emotionally, and sometimes people mistake the feelings they get for real spiritual growth.

Sure God gives us consolations and sometimes even through music but that’s not how we get to heaven.

btw, I’m beginning to really appreciate Gregorian chant, I think that is what ‘worship’ music should ideally be like.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Hi

the interesting thing I noticed from reading about the Saints, is that when they became Saints they didn’t feel that they “made it”, they actually felt great contrition for sin, and often went through terrible sufferings and ‘the dark night of the soul’… some of them had ecstasies and saw visions but their sanctity consisted of their love for God and humility, and patience during trials.

But I see what you are saying in a way.

I noticed with some modern Christian “praise and worship” music (which is mostly Protestant) - that it affects people emotionally, and sometimes people mistake the feelings they get for real spiritual growth.

Sure God gives us consolations and sometimes even through music but that’s not how we get to heaven.

btw, I’m beginning to really appreciate Gregorian chant, I think that is what ‘worship’ music should ideally be like.

Hello to you and thx or your post. Thx to the others too.
I understand what you mean about the trials, dark night etc. It’s true. If you read the writings of saints, particularly when they write on spiritual matters, you can see that their soul is flying like an eagle. They have made it. Achieved the goal. They do have trials, aridity, etc but when they experience the said emotions those emotions are genuine and not a trick. This is what we’re all meant to strive for.
I have a few Gregorian chant albums on my ipod. It’s superb music. Nothing raises the mind up like this.

God bless you

 

[Awake]

It seems that much of the music our young people are listening to is designed to stir up emotions that are supposed to come from achieving a high level of sanctity.

Couldn’t you say the same thing of all forms of art?

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Couldn’t you say the same thing of all forms of art?

I agree. You can get these emotions falsely in many ways. Drugs, alcohol, art, business success, athletic achievement etc etc. I think this is the main one that is destroying our young people though. It certainly is not the only one. They have been duped into idolising pop stars as though they were saints. They are being manipulated here. They are told the purpose of life is fame and fortune. False. The purpose of life is sanctity to cut it short. To know, love and serve God in this life and enjoy him forever in the next. It seems the young people are being given these false emotions to delude them that they’ve made it. If they didn’t get these emotions falsely then perhaps they might look for them by striving for sanctity… They have been duped. It’s possible record ompanies know this and are using it to sell records. It wouldn’t surprise me. I gues it’s an age that wants it all now too. People want the benefits of sanctity without all the hard work. They want this on a subconscious level is what I mean. Anymore thoughts from all are welcome on this.

 

[Awake]

I agree. You can get these emotions falsely in many ways. Drugs, alcohol, art, business success, athletic achievement etc etc. I think this is the main one that is destroying our young people though. It certainly is not the only one. They have been duped into idolising pop stars as though they were saints. They are being manipulated here. They are told the purpose of life is fame and fortune. False. The purpose of life is sanctity to cut it short. To know, love and serve God in this life and enjoy him forever in the next. It seems the young people are being given these false emotions to delude them that they’ve made it. If they didn’t get these emotions falsely then perhaps they might look for them by striving for sanctity… They have been duped. It’s possible record ompanies know this and are using it to sell records. It wouldn’t surprise me. I gues it’s an age that wants it all now too. People want the benefits of sanctity without all the hard work. They want this on a subconscious level is what I mean. Anymore thoughts from all are welcome on this.

Well, no that’s not quite what I’m saying.

All forms of art, such as music, poetry, literature, painting, sculpture, etc., are not just meant to entertain, but to touch the very core of a person’s soul.

True, a particular industry may have more profit-seekers and may rely more on quick gimmicks, but essentially I don’t see how you can say that modern music is aimed to “stir up emotions that are supposed to come from achieving a high level of sanctity” while other forms of art are not.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Well, no that’s not quite what I’m saying.

All forms of art, such as music, poetry, literature, painting, sculpture, etc., are not just meant to entertain, but to touch the very core of a person’s soul.

True, a particular industry may have more profit-seekers and may rely more on quick gimmicks, but essentially I don’t see how you can say that modern music is aimed to “stir up emotions that are supposed to come from achieving a high level of sanctity” while other forms of art are not.

Hi
I’m not talking about the other things here - just much popular music. I don’t think the emotions one gets from seeing beautiful art inspire the emotions peculiar to achieving sanctity. Beauty reveals God. If we experience the euphoric emotions of sanctity by looking at beautiful art then we may have psychological probs. I’m not saying you can’t be overwhelmed with awe and wonder when you see beautiful art. In fact this is the true purpose of art - to lead us to a greater love and appreciation of God and his creation. I’m not quoting the dictionary here and I’m not an expert on pschycology so I could be wrong.

If you watch MTV or any tv music shows aimed at our young people you’ll get a very big shock at what’s on there. It’s corrupting a whole generation. I love music and art etc. I’m just pointing out that whole generations are being duped- especially by the music industry. I’m not infallible so I appreciate all (name removed by moderator)ut on this.