Is a secular marriage between a baptized Protestant and a non-Christian valid?

[1ke]

You stated in the aforementioned post 13, which I did quote, that non-Catholic ministers could not bless marriages. That statement was inaccurate. Non-Catholic includes the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches. Their clergy have valid holy orders and can, and do, bless marriages. Your reference to Orthodox occurred in the previous paragraph and concerned the parties to marriage rather than ministers of churches and ecclesial communities. I hope that help clears up any misunderstanding.

That is not what I am doing. I am simply aiming for accuracy. The same statement holds true with respect to what you say in post 19.

I respectfully request you put me on ignore status from this point forward. You do nit-pick my posts unnecessarily and I do not wish to respond to these things any longer.

I shall do the same.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I respectfully request you put me on ignore status from this point forward.

I won’t do that but I will not engage with you in further discussion.

You do nit-pick my posts unnecessarily and I do not wish to respond to these things any longer.

I do not respond to your posts that often! You are, of course, entitled to consider another poster’s points as nit picking.

I shall do the same.

Whilst I see no point that is obviously your choice. I don’t mind either way.

 

[jimrob]

Sorry folks. Secular marriages are valid provided they are entered into freely and there are no impediments. The Catholic Church, in common with the Orthodox and Armenian communions, recognises marriage as being an agreement between the people involved. Those marrying in the Church have the benefit of the sacrament of Matrimony, but it is not the priest or deacon who is the minister of the sacrament - it is the couple themselves. The priest is only a witness. The Church sets rules for its own members as to the requirements for a valid marriage. Marriages conducted between couples outside of the Church’s jurisdiction are not subject to these rules.

Where a couple were married before joining the Catholic Church, their marriage is recognised as valid (unless there were impediments). They may receive the sacrament of Matrimony through a ceremony of convalidation, but this is not the same as being married again.

 

[1ke]

Where a couple were married before joining the Catholic Church, their marriage is recognised as valid (unless there were impediments). They may receive the sacrament of Matrimony through a ceremony of convalidation, but this is not the same as being married again.

If they are baptized, the marriage is already a sacrament.

If one or both are unbaptized, it becomes valid upon baptism of the unbaptized parties.

Convalidation makes an invalid marriage valid. It does not make a valid marriage a sacrament. And, a couple who is validly married cannot convalidate their marriage.

A couple who comes into the Catholic Church can ask for the nuptial blessing. This does not convalidate the marriage. It does not make it a sacrament. It is simply a blessing upon the couple by the priest.

 

[1ke]

I won’t do that but I will not engage with you in further discussion.

I do not respond to your posts that often! You are, of course, entitled to consider another poster’s points as nit picking.

Whilst I see no point that is obviously your choice. I don’t mind either way.

If I over-reacted or confused you with another poster, I apologize.

Let’s just say that I now claim a universal disclaimer on all my past and future posts that when is speak of Catholics I am talking about Latin Rite Catholics and when I speak of non-Catholics who lack Holy Orders I am not talking about the Orthodox.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

If I over-reacted or confused you with another poster, I apologize.

I fully accept and thank you.

Let’s just say that I now claim a universal disclaimer on all my past and future posts that when is speak of Catholics I am talking about Latin Rite Catholics and when I speak of non-Catholics who lack Holy Orders I am not talking about the Orthodox.

That sounds like an excellent idea.

 

[puzzleannie]

If a validly baptized Protestant (who has never been Catholic) and a person who was never baptized or whose baptism is invalid (e.g. LDS) have married in a secular ceremony (e.g. by a Justice of the Peace), is that valid in the eyes of the CC?

.

assuming the parties are otherwise free to marry, as a general rule the Catholic Church recognizes the marriages of non-Catholics to be valid natural marriages. If both parties are validly baptized, the marriage is also sacramental. Each case has to be considered individually at such time as the party decides to become Catholic.

If the marriage was done at a justice of the peace it is definitely not valid since God was not involved. Any secular marriage that takes place is not valid.

this is simply not true
all of your postings on this topic are untrue and unfounded

[edited]

 

[Matthew_Holford]

OP did not ask about Orthodox Christians so it is not an issue on this thread.

I believe that would be a decision for the mods not members.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Sorry folks. Secular marriages are valid provided they are entered into freely and there are no impediments. The Catholic Church, in common with the Orthodox and Armenian communions, recognises marriage as being an agreement between the people involved. Those marrying in the Church have the benefit of the sacrament of Matrimony, but it is not the priest or deacon who is the minister of the sacrament - it is the couple themselves. The priest is only a witness. The Church sets rules for its own members as to the requirements for a valid marriage. Marriages conducted between couples outside of the Church’s jurisdiction are not subject to these rules.

Where a couple were married before joining the Catholic Church, their marriage is recognised as valid (unless there were impediments). They may receive the sacrament of Matrimony through a ceremony of convalidation, but this is not the same as being married again.

In the Eastern Churches, Catholic and Orthodox, the minister of the sacrament is a bishop or priest. A deacon cannot be the minister. The couple, husband and wife, are not the ministers of the sacrament.