Is a sinful act greater than a sinful thought?

[rlg94086]

I am starting this thread due to the signature quote from a poster named LoveJesus:

If a person who desires to commit an abortion is unable to do so because there is a legislation prohibiting her from doing it, is she less a sinner than the one who commits an abortion because the law permits? - Ogo nwa maria

My contention is that both are sins, but the person actually committing an abortion has still committed a greater sin. I base this on common sense and on writings such as this by St Ignatius of Loyola:
sacred-texts.com/chr/seil/seil09.htm

There are two ways of sinning mortally:

First Way. The first is, when one gives consent to the bad thought, to act afterwards as he has consented, or to put it in act if he could.

Second Way. The second way of sinning mortally is when that sin is put in act.

This is a greater sin for three reasons: first, because of the greater time; second, because of the greater intensity; third, because of the greater harm to the two persons.

To me, it is blatantly obvious that the actual abortion is a greater sin, because a life has been taken. It is no different than thinking about murdering, stealing, etc. as opposed to doing it.

 

[St_Francis]

I am starting this thread due to the signature quote from a poster named LoveJesus:

My contention is that both are sins, but the person actually committing an abortion has still committed a greater sin. I base this on common sense and on writings such as this by St Ignatius of Loyola:
sacred-texts.com/chr/seil/seil09.htm

To me, it is blatantly obvious that the actual abortion is a greater sin, because a life has been taken. It is no different than thinking about murdering, stealing, etc. as opposed to doing it.

Could one say that committing the act adds a sin to the one already existing of having thought about committing the act? (I’m not talking about a quick thought or temptation, but the giving into temptation by *entertaining *the thought.)

 

[Timbothefiveth]

When the abortion doesn’t happen, at least the baby doesn’t die.

 

[rlg94086]

Could one say that committing the act adds a sin to the one already existing of having thought about committing the act? (I’m not talking about a quick thought or temptation, but the giving into temptation by *entertaining *the thought.)

That is a good question. Is it one sin or two? Maybe time between thought and action would be the factor involved (e.g. thought about it…didn’t do it…thought again/acted later).

 

[andrewagill]

I would look at Mt 21:28-32

“What do you think? A man had two sons; and he went to the first and said, Son, go and work in the vineyard today.' And he answered, I will not’; but afterward he repented and went. And he went to the second and said the same; and he answered, `I go, sir,’ but did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the harlots believed him; and even when you saw it, you did not afterward repent and believe him.

While the sin of lust is clearly a case where thinking and doing is the same, I’m not sure (but would be willing to be corrected) if it’s a sin to think of committing a sin, but to not act on it. It would depend on the circumstances. If she thinks that the thing growing inside her is not a person but an inconvenience and wants to do harm to it, but is unable, that’s definitely a sin.

But she may be a frightened girl who knows that the life growing in her is a human person and that she feels bad about the prospect of killing her child but feels that she has no other option.

It’s still a mortal sin if she commits that abortion, but I do not know if she sins if she doesn’t want to harm her child and entertains but ultimately rejects a thought which would have the consequence of harming her child, even though that was not her primary intention–even if that rejection were based on incapacity to commit the sin.

 

[thecross]

Are yoou kidding, one sinful thought, one sinful act equals two mortal sins, and you better confess both of them not just the one, or you may have to explain the omission to Jesus at the time of death…
On my knees before the great multitude of heavenly witnesses I offer myself, soul and body, to You, Eternal Spirit of God. I adore the brightness of Your purity, the unerring keenness of Your justice and the might of Your love. You are the Strength and Light of my soul. In You I live and move and am. I desire never to grieve You by unfaithfulness to grace and I pray with all my heart to be kept from the smallest sin against You. Mercifully guard my every thought and grant that I may always watch for Your light and listen to Your voice and follow Your gracious inspirations. I cling to You and give myself to You and ask You by Your compassion to watch over me in my weakness. Holding the pierced Feet of Jesus and looking at His Five Wounds and trusting in His Precious Blood and adoring his opened Side and stricken Heart, I implore You, Adorable Spirit, Helper of my infirmity , so to keep me in Your grace that I may never sin against You. Give me grace, O Holy Ghost, Spirit of the Father and the Son to say to You always and everywhere, “Speak, Lord, for Your servant heareth.” Amen.

 

[rlg94086]

Are yoou kidding, one sinful thought, one sinful act equals two mortal sins, and you better confess both of them not just the one, or you may have to explain the omission to Jesus at the time of death…

Well, I don’t think it is that simple, thus I wasn’t “kidding.”

If one thinks, “I’m going to kill that guy” and then does it, I’m not certain that it constitutes two sins. Clearly, thinking “I’m going to kill that guy” and meaning it, but coming to one’s senses would only be one sin. If going to Confession, in the first case, I’m pretty certain that confessing contritely that you killed someone would suffice. I don’t think it is necessary to also confess to having thought of it, since that would be a necessity in order for the sin to be considered mortal in the first place.

 

[dashso40]

A sinful thought is not the same as a sinful act…a sinful thought is called temptation which is what everyone has…giving in to your sinful thoughts leads to the sinful act…

 

[tjm190]

By this logic, there should be 20 commandments- the original 10 and then the “thought crime” version of each.

 

[rlg94086]

A sinful thought is not the same as a sinful act…a sinful thought is called temptation which is what everyone has…giving in to your sinful thoughts leads to the sinful act…

Actually, seriously entertaining a temptation (e.g. seriously desiring to kill someone, but not going through with it) is a sinful act.

 

[rlg94086]

By this logic, there should be 20 commandments- the original 10 and then the “thought crime” version of each.

Well, not exactly, but you are on the right track…

2302 By recalling the commandment, "You shall not kill,"94 our Lord asked for peace of heart and denounced murderous anger and hatred as immoral.

Anger is a desire for revenge. “To desire vengeance in order to do evil to someone who should be punished is illicit,” but it is praiseworthy to impose restitution "to correct vices and maintain justice."95 If anger reaches the point of a deliberate desire to kill or seriously wound a neighbor, it is gravely against charity; it is a mortal sin. The Lord says, "Everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment."96

2303 Deliberate hatred is contrary to charity. Hatred of the neighbor is a sin when one deliberately wishes him evil. Hatred of the neighbor is a grave sin when one deliberately desires him grave harm. "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven."97

 

[LoveJesus]

I feel that the answer to the question in my signature is yes.

To me, it’s a question of culpability. I think of it this way. Let’s say that abortion is illegalized in the U.S. Obviously there will still be many women in the country who don’t agree with that and feel that they’re entitled to have “full control” of their bodies. They will desire abortion in their hearts, but the only thing stopping them from getting one is the law. I think that is very dangerous. It shows me that they would choose evil over good if the situation allowed. I think that she would be as much of a sinner as the one who legally has an abortion.

When I first saw that quote on an old thread in this forum, this prayer that I regularly say at Mass comes to mind.

I confess to Almighty God
And to you, my brothers and sisters,
That I have sinned through my own fault,
(strike breast)
In my thoughts and in my words,
In what I have done and in what I have failed to do.
And I ask Blessed Mary, ever Virgin,
All the angels and saints,
And you, my brothers and sisters,
To pray for me to the Lord our God.

 

[rlg94086]

I feel that the answer to the question in my signature is yes.

To me, it’s a question of culpability. I think of it this way. Let’s say that abortion is illegalized in the U.S. Obviously there will still be many women in the country who don’t agree with that and feel that they’re entitled to have “full control” of their bodies. They will desire abortion in their hearts, but the only thing stopping them from getting one is the law. I think that is very dangerous. It shows me that they would choose evil over good if the situation allowed. I think that she would be as much of a sinner as the one who legally has an abortion.

When I first saw that quote on an old thread in this forum, this prayer that I regularly say at Mass comes to mind.

I confess to Almighty God
And to you, my brothers and sisters,
That I have sinned through my own fault,
(strike breast)
In my thoughts and in my words,
In what I have done and in what I have failed to do.
And I ask Blessed Mary, ever Virgin,
All the angels and saints,
And you, my brothers and sisters,
To pray for me to the Lord our God.

The question is not whether it is a sin or not. Rather, it is about which is the greater sin. Your sig line asked if the person who desired but didn’t act due to the law was a lesser sinner. Just to be clear, you agree that they would be a lesser sinner? (you said “yes”)

 

[LoveJesus]

Whoops! Sorry, I meant to write the answer to the question is “no”, not yes. I can’t edit it anymore, though…

 

[Timbothefiveth]

If someone’s about to kill you and doesn’t because it’s illegal, that’s still a sin. So, should we end other murder laws too?

 

[St_Francis]

Overall, however, I think that the legal status of abortion has effects other than simply forcing a woman into non-action.

First of all, abortion’s being illegal makes a statement that unborn children are worthy of legal protection, emphasizing the idea that they are “fully human” despite their status as unborn.

Secondly, if abortion is illegal, women will be *much more *careful about running the risk of becoming pregnant. AGI statistics show that a substantial number of women report themselves as having become pregnant while using the pill correctly (a separate number report having become pregnant while using the pill incorrectly).

This means that a woman can be using what is considered to be an almost fool-proof method of preventing conception as correctly as she can and still become pregnant. I think that if this were to become better-known that women would no longer rely on the pill or other forms of birth control because they would have no back-up method, and thus they would reduce their sexual activity.

So, in a way, I think that the question is a bit of a red herring *in the abortion debate * as it seems because it implies that we are trying to reduce sin by making abortion illegal whereas what laws are put in place for is not to reduce sin but to protect people. I emphasize in the debate because outside the context of that debate, it brings up an important point about which many are unclear.

 

[irishpatrick]

I am starting this thread due to the signature quote from a poster named LoveJesus:

My contention is that both are sins, but the person actually committing an abortion has still committed a greater sin. I base this on common sense and on writings such as this by St Ignatius of Loyola:
sacred-texts.com/chr/seil/seil09.htm

To me, it is blatantly obvious that the actual abortion is a greater sin, because a life has been taken. It is no different than thinking about murdering, stealing, etc. as opposed to doing it.

I do not believe thoughts are sins. I believe actions are the only things that can be sinful, at least on a mortal level. Everyone likely commits venial sins of the mind, yet those are not mortal and I do not see how they ever could be.

It is what we do. IMO.

 

[rlg94086]

I do not believe thoughts are sins. I believe actions are the only things that can be sinful, at least on a mortal level. Everyone likely commits venial sins of the mind, yet those are not mortal and I do not see how they ever could be.

It is what we do. IMO.

Having something just come to mind isn’t a mortal sin, but entertaining those thoughts can be a mortal sin. Willful consideration of sinful acts is in itself sinful. Please see the quote from the Catechism (which in turn also quotes the Bible) I posted earlier.

 

[irishpatrick]

Having something just come to mind isn’t a mortal sin, but entertaining those thoughts can be a mortal sin. Willful consideration of sinful acts is in itself sinful. Please see the quote from the Catechism (which in turn also quotes the Bible) I posted earlier.

Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."

Thoughts are not commited acts, they are thoughts. I agree thoughts can be venial sins, yet I do not see any way thoughts can ever be mortal. If one thinks seriously about getting an abortion, it is a venial sin to think of doing such an act, yet it would not become mortal unless the person actually got the abortion…it is the commited act of procuring an abortion that constitutes mortal sin…not the thought of it.

 

[rlg94086]

Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."

Thoughts are not commited acts, they are thoughts. I agree thoughts can be venial sins, yet I do not see any way thoughts can ever be mortal. If one thinks seriously about getting an abortion, it is a venial sin to think of doing such an act, yet it would not become mortal unless the person actually got the abortion…it is the commited act of procuring an abortion that constitutes mortal sin…not the thought of it.

I’m sorry, but you are in error. I will repost what I posted earlier:

2302 By recalling the commandment, "You shall not kill,"94 our Lord asked for peace of heart and denounced murderous anger and hatred as immoral.

Anger is a desire for revenge. “To desire vengeance in order to do evil to someone who should be punished is illicit,” but it is praiseworthy to impose restitution "to correct vices and maintain justice."95 If anger reaches the point of a deliberate desire to kill or seriously wound a neighbor, it is gravely against charity; it is a mortal sin. The Lord says, "Everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment."96

2303 Deliberate hatred is contrary to charity. Hatred of the neighbor is a sin when one deliberately wishes him evil.** Hatred of the neighbor is a grave sin when one deliberately desires him grave harm. **"But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven."97

Both of the bolded sentences above are thoughts/desires. According to Christ and the Church, a thought/desire can be a mortal sin.