Is abortion a mortal sin?

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joaquinvedder said:
Please spare my your moral superiority tirade about how horrible abortion is. Even people who have had abortion’s realize and understand how painful it is. Some women actually have to make sacrifices in their lives, and must get an abortion because of some reason or another. I would call these women brave. It is ridiculous that we tell these women that they’re going to Hell which is completely counter intuitive to your so called “cause” of getting less women to have abortions. Economic steps must be taken to ensure that women and men feel safe about having kids and will be supported. It’s bigger than morality.
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It was not me but joecaro6h who said women who have abortions will not go to Heaven and he even rejected Church doctrine (albeit too cowardly to respond to me) that a women who made a sincere confession would be absolved.
My comments are about a women who does not repent and dies in a state of mortal sin. Like anyone dying in mortal sin they go immediately to Hell. I am saying that if they go to Hell the punishment for murdering an unborn life should be severe.
There is NEVER an excuse/reason for a direct abortion.
 
joecaro said:
What actually is “potential” pregnancy anyway?
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First, the fertilized egg does not have its own DNA until about 24 hours after the sperm enters.

Second, it takes the zygote about a week to attach itself to the wall of the uterus. If it doesn’t attach itself, it dies. Something like 80% die naturally.

So it could be rationally claimed on a scientific basis that before the zygote attaches itself to the wall of the uterus it is more of a ‘potential’ pregnancy than a real pregnancy.
 
joecaro said:
Socialism has never worked for any community or country.
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You must have your own definition of Socialism. It’s not Socialism (as generally defined) to simply offer social services to those in need. Read the Bible? Go ahead: You’ll find all sorts of things like “Divide what you have and give to the poor,” etc.
 
joaquinvedder said:
It’s a bigger issue than morality, it’s as much an economical decision as a moral one.
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I doubt if any woman at any time said, “Oh, I think I’ll have an abortion! That would be so much fun!” Or “I think I will kill my unborn baby!”

If you want to have some insight as to WHY women have abortions, here is a report–


Reduce the causes for abortions, you reduce the number of abortions. Simple.
 
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otrrl said:
Paragraph 1735 of the Catechism gives a sample of reasons why a grave action may NOT be a mortal sin or even a venial sin.

If a woman is forced against her will to have an abortion, then she did not have free will to decide, for example. If she didn’t know it was “wrong” then ignorance is a factor against this being a mortal sin.
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Yes. And go beyond that–free will. How much free will does any particular woman have in that situation? What are the pressures of economic circumstances, her parents/partner pressuring her, the degree to which she has always let other people make her decisions, the example of her friends, her own beliefs about whether a 6-week-old embryo is a “human being,” etc.

The only one who can truly judge guilt or the degree of guilt is God. By pretending that we can make such a judgment is, in my view, blasphemy because we are setting ourselves up as God.
 
EvangelistVictor said:
Yet they never dedicate an hour show on the evils of fornication, drunkenness, cheating, lying, adultry, etc…which we know Catholic and Evangelical church members do. I myself was guilty of some of these sins many years back.

I’m not saying either that we should stop our cry against abortion, there just need to be a balance by our ecclesiastical communities.
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Have you ever heard EWTN talk about the crooks at ENRON or the nice folks on Wall St. that plunged the world into economic crisis and basically stole retirement money from millions of people? Not a peep.
 
joaquinvedder said:
Some women actually have to make sacrifices in their lives, and must get an abortion because of some reason or another. I would call these women brave.
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If an abortion kills a person, how can you call the woman who decided to kill someone brave? That’s like saying a person is brave for killing an innocent bystander so the person can get out of the way of a deadly situation. The ends do not justify the means.

I understand that women can be horrible predicaments but killing an unborn human being is not the solution. It never is.
 
Entwhistler said:
If an abortion kills a person
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That’s the key. “If…” Most people don’t think abortion is “killing a person” if it’s done early enough.
You know how many abortions per year are in the 3rd trimester, right? About 100. How many in the 1st trimester? 91% of 1.6 million (in the US).

What fanatical pro-life people overlook–ignorance? on purpose? ??-- is that many world religions–Judaism and Islam for example–don’t believe the fetus is a “human being” until movement is detected. That takes place between 16-22 weeks. In other words, the first trimester is about 12 weeks…movement isn’t felt until about 1/3 of the way through the 2nd trimester. So they don’t feel it’s murder. You may disagree, but no matter how strongly you feel, you should respect the fact that most people don’t agree with your point of view. And we’re not talking about “liberals” or “atheists.” We’re talking about very religious people who happen to have their own beliefs and their own religion.
 
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Erikaspirit16 said:
You may disagree, but no matter how strongly you feel, you should respect the fact that most people don’t agree with your point of view. And we’re not talking about “liberals” or “atheists.”
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And that’s all fine and good when it’s, say, whether one should drink spirits or whether eating pork is okay. But when it comes to what Catholics believe is murder, there can’t really be a live and let live attitude. If you thought that a toddler was a person but I thought it wasn’t and could be “terminated” at will, you would say that we can’t live and let live.
 
Is abortion a mortal sin?

Of course not. At worst, it is a venial sin. Odds are, God wants us to kill the most innocent via dismemberment and disembowelment.

I’m sure it is alright. Kill them all.
 
gcshapero said:
Is abortion a mortal sin?

Of course not. At worst, it is a venial sin. Odds are, God wants us to kill the most innocent via dismemberment and disembowelment.

I’m sure it is alright. Kill them all.
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Insofar as you state your religious identification as Roman Catholic, I will assume your post is an attempt at sarcasm. At least I hope so. I just might opine that this wasn’t the best place to exercise the “sarcasm muscle.” The subject brings out a lot of “passion” among the responders.
 
joeybaggz said:
Insofar as you state your religious identification as Roman Catholic, I will assume your post is an attempt at sarcasm. At least I hope so. I just might opine that this wasn’t the best place to exercise the “sarcasm muscle.” The subject brings out a lot of “passion” among the responders.
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Tone aside, abortion is genocide. It is indeed a mortal sin. And sadly, it is that bad because of what it does to the souls who participate in it.
 
gcshapero said:
Tone aside, abortion is genocide. It is indeed a mortal sin. And sadly, it is that bad because of what it does to the souls who participate in it.
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I have said it before, (and I think in this post), no one can say a person procuring an abortion commits a mortal sin. Yes, abort is a grave evil (grave - and probably in God’s eyes, very grave) matter, but there are two other conditions, and only God knows what occurs in a person’s heart when it comes to those two conditions being present. Judging another as to yes or no committing a mortal sin is harmful to those reading such words as it sets up posters as having a power of judgment that is reserved only to God.
Charitably, abortion is not genocide, it is infanticide. Abortion is prevalent is all races and cultures.
I totally agree with your contention as to what it does to the souls who participate in it.
 
joeybaggz said:
I have said it before, (and I think in this post), no one can say a person procuring an abortion commits a mortal sin. Yes, abort is a grave evil (grave - and probably in God’s eyes, very grave) matter, but there are two other conditions, and only God knows what occurs in a person’s heart when it comes to those two conditions being present. Judging another as to yes or no committing a mortal sin is harmful to those reading such words as it sets up posters as having a power of judgment that is reserved only to God.
Charitably, abortion is not genocide, it is infanticide. Abortion is prevalent is all races and cultures.
I totally agree with your contention as to what it does to the souls who participate in it.
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This is not based on our own personal judgement. This is based on the teachings of the Catholic Church and the 1st Commandment. It is not wrong to say it is intrinsically evil. And we should be judgemental with this because we are supposed to judge right from wrong. This doesn’t mean judging people, but we can judge peoples’ actions based on what we’re taught.
 
gcshapero said:
This is not based on our own personal judgement. This is based on the teachings of the Catholic Church and the 1st Commandment. It is not wrong to say it is intrinsically evil. And we should be judgemental with this because we are supposed to judge right from wrong. This doesn’t mean judging people, but we can judge peoples’ actions based on what we’re taught.
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Okay, we are then talking past each other.
From you words, you are saying it is all right to judge another for yourself and your perception of the actions of another. I agree, that is fine.
I am talking about making declarative statements about the condition of another’s soul before society/others. Only God has the right and the power to issue that judgment. Not man.
As to intrinsically evil, yes, exactly, that is what the church means when she declares something a “grave matter”
Shalom.
 
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I may be using the words mortal and grave interchangeably (which I thought they were), but that may be my ignorance.
  1. I agree that it is ultimately up to God to decide who is saved and who is damned. We do not have that authority.
  2. Abortion is a damnable sin though. Those in a state of grave (or mortal depending on what we mean by this) are far more susceptible to ending up in Hell.
I don’t think anyone here is claiming the authority to say who specifically goes. But we can say the reasons why people could go, and we know for certain that abortion is among those because it’s murder.
 
Yes, we’re expected to forgive everyone; just take into account what was sinful actions. And it can always happen that if any person is sincere, their sins will be forgiven.
 
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