J
- Status
C
ceciliatherese
Guest
How dare you say this to her! That she should have died along with the baby? You say there’s no right to life. Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of the whole pro-life position you’re so completely twisting in your post? It’s true that a person should have faith in God, but she should also have common sense. If either she and the baby were going to die, or just one, she shouln’t just sit there and think, ‘oh, maybe God will save both of us’. God requires US to ACT, and then He makes our actions bear fruit.Trying to be honest without sounding like a jerk here ryecroft, but IMHO your choice showed a lack of faith in God and terrible selfishness. So what if the pregnancy endangered yours and the child’s life? You have lived a reasonably full life, and if your soul had been in a state of grace prior to your death, you would have gone to Heaven, which I hear is a good thing. You talk about a right to live. There is no such thing. We are only allowed to live by the Grace of God, now that is no right! Life is a privelige, and we are to live every waking moment of it for our Father in Heaven. I could care less if it was some “medically necessary” BS
. If you have faith in God, all things are possible, like you and your baby surviving the pregnancy! No real offense intended, but I honestly cant comprehend the selfishness you displayed so flagrantly in your choice. It disgusts me.
Spare us the ‘no real offense intended’ BS. You’re saying to a woman who had to go through the heart-breaking choice (one you will never understand or go through, as you’re a male) of choosing between her life or both their lives, who LOST A CHILD because there was nothing else she could do, you’re saying she should have let herself die along with her baby! To hell with her husband and family! As she has lived a ‘reasonably full life’ (and how would you know?) then yes, she def should have let herself die, so there would be both a dead baby and a a dead mother.
I’m so flabbergasted that you show utter disdain for this woman, who had to make a very sad choice, but one that was NOT WRONG IN ANY WAY. There were two lives at stake. What is wrong with her choosing life for HERSELF? Where is her terrible sin? what makes this baby so much more deserving of the right to life than its mother that because it must die, she must die too? because it’s cuter? It’s more innocent? EVERYONE has an EQUAL right to life, unborn children, teenagers, pregnant women, men, and the elderly. We ALL DO. Try and understand that, and stop pointing fingers at everyone who don’t live up to your unbelievable high standards. Thankfully you’ll never have to go through this, as you have no reproductive system, but stop pretending you know what it’s like to do go through it.
P
PastGrandKnight
Guest
Just so you will know, I can think of one major religion where a pregnant woman who is definitely going to die if she carries her child to term is required to abort.
So you will know, it’s called Judaism.
And so you will also know, I was born Jewish, of a Jewish mother. However, a quick glance at my screen name will tell you instantly that while I am still (and forever will be!) a Jew, I am not longer Jew-ISH, as I no longer practice Judaism.
While the above tenet applies to Orthodox Jewish women, I am not sure if it applies to those of the Conservative movement. (Don’t even ASK me about the so-called “Reform” movement, as they are about as liberal as Teddy Kennedy!) But the teaching in Orthodox is that those who are living must defend their lives IF those lives are definitely in peril. Thus, if a mother is going to die should she carry to term, she is required to have an abortion (and, in theory, try again at a later time).
While you and I may or may not agree with that teaching, it is still the rule in one of the oldest religions in the world, certainly older than Christianity…by over 3500 years.
So you will know, it’s called Judaism.
And so you will also know, I was born Jewish, of a Jewish mother. However, a quick glance at my screen name will tell you instantly that while I am still (and forever will be!) a Jew, I am not longer Jew-ISH, as I no longer practice Judaism.
While the above tenet applies to Orthodox Jewish women, I am not sure if it applies to those of the Conservative movement. (Don’t even ASK me about the so-called “Reform” movement, as they are about as liberal as Teddy Kennedy!) But the teaching in Orthodox is that those who are living must defend their lives IF those lives are definitely in peril. Thus, if a mother is going to die should she carry to term, she is required to have an abortion (and, in theory, try again at a later time).
While you and I may or may not agree with that teaching, it is still the rule in one of the oldest religions in the world, certainly older than Christianity…by over 3500 years.
D
DLClark
Guest
Why kill the baby inside of a women. The baby did not do anything wrong. There is always adoption, but murder is always wrong. Q. What does God want us to do, kill the innocent person because of the sins of others? God is pro-life and so should we be in all circumstances.A woman walking home from work in New York City is attacked by a rapist. The man uses a wash cloth and covers her mouth so people cannot hear her scream. She is then knocked out… later she is found on the side of an alley way with all her clothes torn off of her, she can only suspect the worst. The police finally find her… her husband is terrified that she was raped… his woman… scared for life. 2 weeks later they found out she was pregnant. Now, answer me this… if YOUR wife had gotten pregnant… would you not have gone into a stage of denial?! The woman wants terribly to abort. She thinks that it would be a mistake if she lets the child inside her wound let live, not knowing if she would love the child, i child she did not want and did not plan for. Her husband decides not to abort but leave the child to be born, when the child is born, he looks so much like the man that raped he wife she cannot stand to see the child, for she gets flash backs of that terrible day she was raped. 13 years later the child is miserable… he thinks he is a soul sent from hell. When asked who was his father… his mom tells him he was a man who raped her. With that the child is petrified, he then commits suicide. Knowing that it was not his moms fault… and that deep down he parents never really wanted this out come…SO NOW, IF THIS HAPPENED TO YOU, WOULD YOU NOT TAKE IN CONSIDERATION FOR ABORTION?
- I think the Catholic church needs to take consideration if a woman is raped, and ends up pregnant. I think she should have the right to abort without being discramanated by her own church.
- What if this happened to you:
GOD BLESS YOU ALL. :clapping:
P
PastGrandKnight
Guest
You are so right on this issue!
Some time back, I had the nerve to go to the web site of “naral”, the pro-abortion gang of thugs. They tried to justify abortions for those who have been raped, and then they came up with the numbers. As it turned out, less than one tenth of 1 percent of all demands for abortion are as a result of rape.
So what does that mean? Simply that they are trying to justify ALL abortions because of the 1/10 of 1%!
In other words, 99.9% of all abortions have nothing to do with rape. NOTHING!
Then they try to use the Constitution as part of their argument. Yet, I’ve read that document over and over again, and I find nothing in it that gives anyone the right to terminate an innocent human life. That’s my main point: NONE of us have the right to terminate an innocent human life. Period. Stop. End of discussion.
Too bad the pro-abortion gang of thugs can’t understand that simple truth.
R
ryecroft
Guest
Originally Posted by TheWhoFreak
Trying to be honest without sounding like a jerk here ryecroft, but IMHO your choice showed a lack of faith in God and terrible selfishness. So what if the pregnancy endangered yours and the child’s life? You have lived a reasonably full life, and if your soul had been in a state of grace prior to your death, you would have gone to Heaven, which I hear is a good thing. You talk about a right to live. There is no such thing. We are only allowed to live by the Grace of God, now that is no right! Life is a privelige, and we are to live every waking moment of it for our Father in Heaven. I could care less if it was some “medically necessary” BS. If you have faith in God, all things are possible, like you and your baby surviving the pregnancy! No real offense intended, but I honestly cant comprehend the selfishness you displayed so flagrantly in your choice. It disgusts me.>>
The true selfishness would have been to leave my family. And it was not “medically necessary BS” as you put it. We almost waited too long to intervene because we were hoping for a miracle and we may have gotten one because I didn’t die and I didn’t have to have a hysterectomy. I have a right to defend my life - and I believe that Our Loving God has endowed us with the ability and knowledge to use the tools that will not only help someone feel better but also to save their lives. The only variable in this equation was whether I would live or not - there was no chance of the fetus to live in me (which the doctors tell us that we might have been able to live with support less than an hour but closer to 10 -15 minutes.) At that point I would have been dead as well. There was no selfishness displayed here - I risked my life to try to continue this pregnancy and I risked it because of my belief in God. I will never feel ashamed or guilty for what we chose to do - a little sad that this had to happen but I displayed no selfishness and if that disgusts you that’s your problem. For your sake, I really hope God is not as judgemental as you are because if he isn’t he might remind you of a passage which says something to the nature of “Judge not lest you be judged…”(Matt 7:1) It has even been brought up that this may have been a case where double effect came into play - because the fetus had to be removed in order to get to the area of hemmoraging. You still going to be as judgemental if it turns out it’s a case of double effect? Actually, never mind, I really don’t care what you say. But God Bless you anyway - we’re all going to need all of the blessings and prayers we can get before we go before Him.
God Bless All
Trying to be honest without sounding like a jerk here ryecroft, but IMHO your choice showed a lack of faith in God and terrible selfishness. So what if the pregnancy endangered yours and the child’s life? You have lived a reasonably full life, and if your soul had been in a state of grace prior to your death, you would have gone to Heaven, which I hear is a good thing. You talk about a right to live. There is no such thing. We are only allowed to live by the Grace of God, now that is no right! Life is a privelige, and we are to live every waking moment of it for our Father in Heaven. I could care less if it was some “medically necessary” BS. If you have faith in God, all things are possible, like you and your baby surviving the pregnancy! No real offense intended, but I honestly cant comprehend the selfishness you displayed so flagrantly in your choice. It disgusts me.>>
The true selfishness would have been to leave my family. And it was not “medically necessary BS” as you put it. We almost waited too long to intervene because we were hoping for a miracle and we may have gotten one because I didn’t die and I didn’t have to have a hysterectomy. I have a right to defend my life - and I believe that Our Loving God has endowed us with the ability and knowledge to use the tools that will not only help someone feel better but also to save their lives. The only variable in this equation was whether I would live or not - there was no chance of the fetus to live in me (which the doctors tell us that we might have been able to live with support less than an hour but closer to 10 -15 minutes.) At that point I would have been dead as well. There was no selfishness displayed here - I risked my life to try to continue this pregnancy and I risked it because of my belief in God. I will never feel ashamed or guilty for what we chose to do - a little sad that this had to happen but I displayed no selfishness and if that disgusts you that’s your problem. For your sake, I really hope God is not as judgemental as you are because if he isn’t he might remind you of a passage which says something to the nature of “Judge not lest you be judged…”(Matt 7:1) It has even been brought up that this may have been a case where double effect came into play - because the fetus had to be removed in order to get to the area of hemmoraging. You still going to be as judgemental if it turns out it’s a case of double effect? Actually, never mind, I really don’t care what you say. But God Bless you anyway - we’re all going to need all of the blessings and prayers we can get before we go before Him.
God Bless All
J
jmtowle
Guest
As one might observe from the number of posts I’ve submitted, I’m a newbie. I haven’t read all of the posts for this thread , maybe half, and if it turns out that this offering is redundant, I invoke the newbie dispensation rule ( if one exists ).
I’m going to throw out some food for thought to any Catholic person who thinks it’s reasonable to have a law that permits the choice of taking a human life prior to birth.
When the time comes for our own human life to end and we enter into eternity, it is likely, based on all the information addressing eternal life, that God will permit us to see the impact all of our actions and inactions had on our fellow man, good and bad. It is also said that God doesn’t do the condemning, we do that ourselves once we see the Truth free from all error and as God reveals it.
So what if, when we get to this encounter, we discover that God was fine with abortion in some circumstances and birth control was acceptable too, due to overpopulation or some other logical reasoning? Would those people who opposed both practices be condemned for not killing or enabling others to kill unborn lives? Would it be likely that God would condemn for all eternity those people who did not practice artificial birth control and spoke out against preventing procreation through artificial means? Based on the Ten Commandments and the teachings of the Catholic Church, what would their condemning sins be?
If however, it turns out that the teaching authority of the Catholic Church did in fact know the will of God in these matters, and the Holy Spirit did in fact reveal these truths to the Church, and God in fact abhors both practices, do you really believe that there will be any chance whatsoever to explain away the error(s)? Particularly if you are able to observe all the good that might have been done had a particular person been permitted to be born.
What if your vote helped enable president Obama to fund the clinic that took the life of the person God had chosen to make a scientific discovery that would reduce human suffering by a degree not previously experienced by humanity. Wouldn’t anyone and everyone complicit, be held accountable to God for their interference and the unnecessary suffering that resulted from those actions?
Since we are incapable of knowing with any certainty what harm has been done by these actions against pre born life, isn’t the most important question, why risk losing your immortal soul at all, yet alone for practices you don’t necessarily believe in and wouldn’t do yourself?
Every generation has their progressive thinkers and very often they are secularists with a disdain for matters religious. Yet time and time again, Catholic liberals must lie in bed with these enlightened atheists or agnostics only to be discarded as undesirable once the current battle has been won. The French revolution comes to mind.
Look at who is on your side in this battle for “choice”( human life ). Planned parenthood, whose only known actions are taking steps to avoid parenthood through artificial contraception or after the fact contraception aka abortion. How specifically do they prepare or help people plan to be parents? The ACLU, the single most anti God organization in America and the voice for atheists everywhere. Do you think these people have a clue as to God’s will regarding His creation? Hollywood!!! Their collective wisdom as it relates to God’s?
This should all be a slam dunk but it isn’t and there can only be one reason. Those who are of this world are being led by the one who rejected God before there was man. If you are reading posts and participating in these discussions, you are likely being given the opportunity to closely examine your knowledge and reasoning as it compares to the knowledge and reasoning of the Holy Catholic Church. Before you reject it, get to know it.
Don’t take actions or choose inactions based on feelings or logic alone. If you are to reject Catholic teaching, do so because you have learned what the Church holds to be the Revealed Truth and your faith doesn’t permit you accept that it is from God.
I shudder to think of the number of souls who didn’t make the effort to have an informed conscience and unnecessarily left this life with grave sin that could have been forgiven.
Those souls will always be a victory for satan and his evil minions and a saddening loss for the Most Holy Trinity.
May the peace of Christ be with us all, always
JT
We know from Church teaching that one might commit such grievous sin and be spared eternal damnation through the sacrament of reconciliation, after having satisfied all the conditions and being absolved by the priest. But if you think that you have not sinned against God, what are the chances you would seek God’s forgiveness through this sacrament?
I’m going to throw out some food for thought to any Catholic person who thinks it’s reasonable to have a law that permits the choice of taking a human life prior to birth.
When the time comes for our own human life to end and we enter into eternity, it is likely, based on all the information addressing eternal life, that God will permit us to see the impact all of our actions and inactions had on our fellow man, good and bad. It is also said that God doesn’t do the condemning, we do that ourselves once we see the Truth free from all error and as God reveals it.
So what if, when we get to this encounter, we discover that God was fine with abortion in some circumstances and birth control was acceptable too, due to overpopulation or some other logical reasoning? Would those people who opposed both practices be condemned for not killing or enabling others to kill unborn lives? Would it be likely that God would condemn for all eternity those people who did not practice artificial birth control and spoke out against preventing procreation through artificial means? Based on the Ten Commandments and the teachings of the Catholic Church, what would their condemning sins be?
If however, it turns out that the teaching authority of the Catholic Church did in fact know the will of God in these matters, and the Holy Spirit did in fact reveal these truths to the Church, and God in fact abhors both practices, do you really believe that there will be any chance whatsoever to explain away the error(s)? Particularly if you are able to observe all the good that might have been done had a particular person been permitted to be born.
What if your vote helped enable president Obama to fund the clinic that took the life of the person God had chosen to make a scientific discovery that would reduce human suffering by a degree not previously experienced by humanity. Wouldn’t anyone and everyone complicit, be held accountable to God for their interference and the unnecessary suffering that resulted from those actions?
Since we are incapable of knowing with any certainty what harm has been done by these actions against pre born life, isn’t the most important question, why risk losing your immortal soul at all, yet alone for practices you don’t necessarily believe in and wouldn’t do yourself?
Every generation has their progressive thinkers and very often they are secularists with a disdain for matters religious. Yet time and time again, Catholic liberals must lie in bed with these enlightened atheists or agnostics only to be discarded as undesirable once the current battle has been won. The French revolution comes to mind.
Look at who is on your side in this battle for “choice”( human life ). Planned parenthood, whose only known actions are taking steps to avoid parenthood through artificial contraception or after the fact contraception aka abortion. How specifically do they prepare or help people plan to be parents? The ACLU, the single most anti God organization in America and the voice for atheists everywhere. Do you think these people have a clue as to God’s will regarding His creation? Hollywood!!! Their collective wisdom as it relates to God’s?
This should all be a slam dunk but it isn’t and there can only be one reason. Those who are of this world are being led by the one who rejected God before there was man. If you are reading posts and participating in these discussions, you are likely being given the opportunity to closely examine your knowledge and reasoning as it compares to the knowledge and reasoning of the Holy Catholic Church. Before you reject it, get to know it.
Don’t take actions or choose inactions based on feelings or logic alone. If you are to reject Catholic teaching, do so because you have learned what the Church holds to be the Revealed Truth and your faith doesn’t permit you accept that it is from God.
I shudder to think of the number of souls who didn’t make the effort to have an informed conscience and unnecessarily left this life with grave sin that could have been forgiven.
Those souls will always be a victory for satan and his evil minions and a saddening loss for the Most Holy Trinity.
May the peace of Christ be with us all, always
JT
We know from Church teaching that one might commit such grievous sin and be spared eternal damnation through the sacrament of reconciliation, after having satisfied all the conditions and being absolved by the priest. But if you think that you have not sinned against God, what are the chances you would seek God’s forgiveness through this sacrament?
L
limerick
Guest
jmtowle wrote:
“If however, it turns out that the teaching authority of the Catholic Church did in fact know the will of God in these matters, and the Holy Spirit did in fact reveal these truths to the Church, and God in fact abhors both practices, do you really believe that there will be any chance whatsoever to explain away the error(s)? Particularly if you are able to observe all the good that might have been done had a particular person been permitted to be born.
What if your vote helped enable president Obama to fund the clinic that took the life of the person God had chosen to make a scientific discovery that would reduce human suffering by a degree not previously experienced by humanity. Wouldn’t anyone and everyone complicit, be held accountable to God for their interference and the unnecessary suffering that resulted from those actions?”
**If God is omniscient, wouldn’t He have known when He created man that this fate would befall the unborn in question? How can God be disappointed when He already knows the outcome?
Limerick**
“If however, it turns out that the teaching authority of the Catholic Church did in fact know the will of God in these matters, and the Holy Spirit did in fact reveal these truths to the Church, and God in fact abhors both practices, do you really believe that there will be any chance whatsoever to explain away the error(s)? Particularly if you are able to observe all the good that might have been done had a particular person been permitted to be born.
What if your vote helped enable president Obama to fund the clinic that took the life of the person God had chosen to make a scientific discovery that would reduce human suffering by a degree not previously experienced by humanity. Wouldn’t anyone and everyone complicit, be held accountable to God for their interference and the unnecessary suffering that resulted from those actions?”
**If God is omniscient, wouldn’t He have known when He created man that this fate would befall the unborn in question? How can God be disappointed when He already knows the outcome?
Limerick**
J
jmtowle
Guest
What I have been taught and I find is a reasonable explanation, is that God has the ability to know the outcome without influencing it. Otherwise, free will is not possible and all actions are pre determined or pre destined.
Abortions are not pre determined or pre destined. It makes no sense that a God of Love would create life, knowing in advance that the same life would be taken in a manner so violently opposed to it’s very nature.
It’s not that God knew this would happen, it’s that His Nature is such that He is only capable of expressing Love, and His terms demand that any love returned be freely given without conditions. Unfortunately for God and man, not everyone chooses to return this love freely or otherwise.
Disappointment is a curious word. Sadness seems to me to be more likely.
Since we are discussing Catholic teaching on abortion and contraception we are required to look at all the information and adhere to ALL the admonitions. Of course people are free to reject Catholic teaching but for a Catholic to do so, causes grave danger to that person’s eternal soul and damages the Mystical Body of Christ. A non Catholic who rejects Catholic teaching may not suffer for this error to the degree a disobedient Catholic would. The greatest consolation any Catholic has is that they may confess their sin in humility to one of God’s priests and if done with true remorse and a true desire not to repeat that sin and then fulfilling the penance prescribed by God’s anointed priest, are absolved, that sin is as though it never occurred.
No one on earth is forced to believe any of this. But it is there for the knowing and since we are talking about eternal existence, should be of the highest priority when it comes to
worth.
If you voted for Obama, you should be very concerned that you are complicit in grave sin. Swallow your pride and go to confession. Sadly, you probably have a fifty-fifty chance of getting a priest who voted with you. Find a priest who actually knows and is obedient to Church teaching. Much better safe than eternally sorry.
May the peace of Christ be with us all, always
JT
Abortions are not pre determined or pre destined. It makes no sense that a God of Love would create life, knowing in advance that the same life would be taken in a manner so violently opposed to it’s very nature.
It’s not that God knew this would happen, it’s that His Nature is such that He is only capable of expressing Love, and His terms demand that any love returned be freely given without conditions. Unfortunately for God and man, not everyone chooses to return this love freely or otherwise.
Disappointment is a curious word. Sadness seems to me to be more likely.
Since we are discussing Catholic teaching on abortion and contraception we are required to look at all the information and adhere to ALL the admonitions. Of course people are free to reject Catholic teaching but for a Catholic to do so, causes grave danger to that person’s eternal soul and damages the Mystical Body of Christ. A non Catholic who rejects Catholic teaching may not suffer for this error to the degree a disobedient Catholic would. The greatest consolation any Catholic has is that they may confess their sin in humility to one of God’s priests and if done with true remorse and a true desire not to repeat that sin and then fulfilling the penance prescribed by God’s anointed priest, are absolved, that sin is as though it never occurred.
No one on earth is forced to believe any of this. But it is there for the knowing and since we are talking about eternal existence, should be of the highest priority when it comes to
worth.
If you voted for Obama, you should be very concerned that you are complicit in grave sin. Swallow your pride and go to confession. Sadly, you probably have a fifty-fifty chance of getting a priest who voted with you. Find a priest who actually knows and is obedient to Church teaching. Much better safe than eternally sorry.
May the peace of Christ be with us all, always
JT
C
ceciliatherese
Guest
I am pro-life, but it seems to me that God is only pro-life when He wants to be, as He’s the maker of the moral law anyway. After reading this, I had my doubts
evilbible.com/god%27s%20not%20pro-life.htm
J
jmtowle
Guest
Dear ceceliatherese,
You are Catholic, the person who wrote the article is not building his case using Catholic teaching.
The teaching authority of the Catholic Church has recognized for centuries, the inherent danger in erroneous bible interpretation. Fortunately, the Church has done the heavy lifting for us and has drawn from the scriptures the Truth. The results of the many councils and centuries of theological exegesis are compiled in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the deposit of faith, defended by the Holy See, led by the Vicar of Christ.
If you trust that the Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and that the deposit of faith is infallible regarding matters of faith and morals, you are in good and safe hands. If you think the Catholic Church may be wrong on some issues that deal with faith and morals then you must find the Truth outside of the Church and where do you turn?
Either the Catholic Church is the Church started by our Lord and given the authority to bind or loose sins or it isn’t. If it is, put your faith and trust there and be at peace.
Otherwise, you must journey beyond the confines of Catholicism in hopes of finding the
" true authority". Your Protestant brothers and sisters will tell you it’s the Bible but the many arguments that contradict that notion are compelling and in the end you will likely be dissatisfied.
You may embark on this journey if you wish but it’s dangerous and you are not guaranteed a good result. Study the teachings of the Catholic Church, read the Catechism, pray for Wisdom and then go searching if you are not convinced that you are in the Church initiated by Christ and Breathed on at Pentecost. Work from the inside out.
Working from the outside in will be extremely confusing at best.
Contradiction is a concept foreign to the nature of God and entirely human. Using sacred scripture to declare God as being able to contradict His own Nature is folly and a strong argument for not attempting to go it on your own while interpreting the Truth contained in Divine revelation.
I would strongly advise you to search out a priest for spiritual direction. Ask God to place this priest in your life. Stay put, you are already in the best place possible.
May the peace of Christ be with us all, always
JT
You are Catholic, the person who wrote the article is not building his case using Catholic teaching.
The teaching authority of the Catholic Church has recognized for centuries, the inherent danger in erroneous bible interpretation. Fortunately, the Church has done the heavy lifting for us and has drawn from the scriptures the Truth. The results of the many councils and centuries of theological exegesis are compiled in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the deposit of faith, defended by the Holy See, led by the Vicar of Christ.
If you trust that the Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and that the deposit of faith is infallible regarding matters of faith and morals, you are in good and safe hands. If you think the Catholic Church may be wrong on some issues that deal with faith and morals then you must find the Truth outside of the Church and where do you turn?
Either the Catholic Church is the Church started by our Lord and given the authority to bind or loose sins or it isn’t. If it is, put your faith and trust there and be at peace.
Otherwise, you must journey beyond the confines of Catholicism in hopes of finding the
" true authority". Your Protestant brothers and sisters will tell you it’s the Bible but the many arguments that contradict that notion are compelling and in the end you will likely be dissatisfied.
You may embark on this journey if you wish but it’s dangerous and you are not guaranteed a good result. Study the teachings of the Catholic Church, read the Catechism, pray for Wisdom and then go searching if you are not convinced that you are in the Church initiated by Christ and Breathed on at Pentecost. Work from the inside out.
Working from the outside in will be extremely confusing at best.
Contradiction is a concept foreign to the nature of God and entirely human. Using sacred scripture to declare God as being able to contradict His own Nature is folly and a strong argument for not attempting to go it on your own while interpreting the Truth contained in Divine revelation.
I would strongly advise you to search out a priest for spiritual direction. Ask God to place this priest in your life. Stay put, you are already in the best place possible.
May the peace of Christ be with us all, always
JT
D
DLClark
Guest
What does God think about ALL abortions. Why did the Catholic (which are pro-life) vote go for the most pro-choice person to be our predident? Maybe those who voted for BHO should repent and ask forgiveness for their sin.
W
wanner47
Guest
First of all, I wouldn’t consider a site called “evil bible” to be particularly unbiased.I am pro-life, but it seems to me that God is only pro-life when He wants to be, as He’s the maker of the moral law anyway. After reading this, I had my doubts
Secondly, every single example given has been taken out of context and/or grossly misunderstood.
Thirdly, what most antiChristians don’t understand is that since God is the author of life, He has the right to take it away as He sees fit. However, NO human being has that right.
L
limerick
Guest
**If there was always another way, as you suggest, then no one would die. Ever.
Limerick**
A
aggiecatholic05
Guest
maybe? maybe my foot.
L
limerick
Guest
J
jmtowle
Guest
Dear Limerick
Being aware does not imply participation. One can be aware and detached.
I love my wife and children, they sometimes anger me, I still love them and want the best for them. Jesus was angry with the money changers but loved them the way He loved those who tortured and then murdered Him, He forgave them. Christ, Who Is God could exhibit anger but also died a horrific death for every human being who will ever be created. Anger is not the opposite of Love nor is it inconsistent with Love.
We as Catholics are taught that we are made in the image and likeness of God. We have feelings, ergo God has feelings. What form those feelings take or the degree of those feelings is unknowable.
Catholic priests voting for Obama says volumes and it’s the same old same old. Priests, because they are human beings first, are capable of making the same bad decisions any of us may make. Of course they wouldn’t agree that voting for Obama was a mistake but
liberals of all bents are required to join forces with those who think mostly secularly and as the French Revolution proved, this can be a tenuous union. I can understand the secular reasoning, what I can’t understand is a religious person using that same reasoning that rejects the God of creation. Think ACLU and Planned Parenthood.
May the Peace of Christ be with us all, always
JT
Being aware does not imply participation. One can be aware and detached.
I love my wife and children, they sometimes anger me, I still love them and want the best for them. Jesus was angry with the money changers but loved them the way He loved those who tortured and then murdered Him, He forgave them. Christ, Who Is God could exhibit anger but also died a horrific death for every human being who will ever be created. Anger is not the opposite of Love nor is it inconsistent with Love.
We as Catholics are taught that we are made in the image and likeness of God. We have feelings, ergo God has feelings. What form those feelings take or the degree of those feelings is unknowable.
Catholic priests voting for Obama says volumes and it’s the same old same old. Priests, because they are human beings first, are capable of making the same bad decisions any of us may make. Of course they wouldn’t agree that voting for Obama was a mistake but
liberals of all bents are required to join forces with those who think mostly secularly and as the French Revolution proved, this can be a tenuous union. I can understand the secular reasoning, what I can’t understand is a religious person using that same reasoning that rejects the God of creation. Think ACLU and Planned Parenthood.
May the Peace of Christ be with us all, always
JT
L
limerick
Guest
**jmtowle,
Somehow, after reading your response to my post, I am left thinking the whole deal was a shell game.
Very dissatisfied with the indirect nature of your post. Sorry.
Limerick**
Somehow, after reading your response to my post, I am left thinking the whole deal was a shell game.
Very dissatisfied with the indirect nature of your post. Sorry.
Limerick**
J
jmtowle
Guest
Limerick,
I’ll be more direct.
When we leave this life we will experience another reality or nothing. If it’s nothing then we will no longer be aware of anything and nothing will have mattered.
If the next reality is as the Catholic Church professes, those who were obedient to Catholic teaching can expect a wonderful outcome ( total understatement ) and those who rejected the Church’s teachings on abortion, the taking of a pre born human life, may be separated from God eternally. The risk seems absurd.
The reality of eternal life is not dependent on what either one of us think it simply is what it is.
To whatever degree, you have placed yourself in jeopardy by exposing yourself to Catholic teaching. You may have caused yourself the responsibility of discovering what the Church claims to be Moral Truth so that you can reject it from knowledge versus ignorance. If you can’t honestly reject Catholic teaching based on the Theology you must adhere to it or face the potentially dire consequences in eternal life. Unfortunately, this is much more than a mental chess game.
" The Whole Deal " is your journey from God back to God. You left on good terms and you dictate with your life, the terms of your reunion. I would suggest seeking the best guide available for this journey, the guide with the best available road maps, the Catholic Church.
Start with the catechism of the Catholic Church and also read what the Theological doctor’s of the Church said and then what the various Councils placed in the deposit of faith as eternal Truth, revealed by God the Holy Spirit.
Or you can blow it all off as a shell game and hope for the best.
May the Peace of Christ be with us all, always
JT
I’ll be more direct.
When we leave this life we will experience another reality or nothing. If it’s nothing then we will no longer be aware of anything and nothing will have mattered.
If the next reality is as the Catholic Church professes, those who were obedient to Catholic teaching can expect a wonderful outcome ( total understatement ) and those who rejected the Church’s teachings on abortion, the taking of a pre born human life, may be separated from God eternally. The risk seems absurd.
The reality of eternal life is not dependent on what either one of us think it simply is what it is.
To whatever degree, you have placed yourself in jeopardy by exposing yourself to Catholic teaching. You may have caused yourself the responsibility of discovering what the Church claims to be Moral Truth so that you can reject it from knowledge versus ignorance. If you can’t honestly reject Catholic teaching based on the Theology you must adhere to it or face the potentially dire consequences in eternal life. Unfortunately, this is much more than a mental chess game.
" The Whole Deal " is your journey from God back to God. You left on good terms and you dictate with your life, the terms of your reunion. I would suggest seeking the best guide available for this journey, the guide with the best available road maps, the Catholic Church.
Start with the catechism of the Catholic Church and also read what the Theological doctor’s of the Church said and then what the various Councils placed in the deposit of faith as eternal Truth, revealed by God the Holy Spirit.
Or you can blow it all off as a shell game and hope for the best.
May the Peace of Christ be with us all, always
JT
L
limerick
Guest
**jmtowle:
I did not place myself in jeopardy by exposing myself to Catholic teaching. ** I was placed in jeopardy by my parents.**** You want to talk about abuse of the most innocent? Cradle Catholics are hostages to the notion that once we are exposed to even the tiniest bit of doctrine we are bound by those teachings. We don’t understand it, it is taught poorly to us by do-gooders who want to serve the Lord, we don’t have an inkling of what is true and what was fabricated by Gregory the Great, and it goes on and on and on.
I have been livid about this since I was 15 years old. I don’t think the Church plays fair with Catholics who choose to seek others teachings that make more sense to them. To me it remains a shell game, and God is looking less and less like a loving God every day.
Limerick
I did not place myself in jeopardy by exposing myself to Catholic teaching. ** I was placed in jeopardy by my parents.**** You want to talk about abuse of the most innocent? Cradle Catholics are hostages to the notion that once we are exposed to even the tiniest bit of doctrine we are bound by those teachings. We don’t understand it, it is taught poorly to us by do-gooders who want to serve the Lord, we don’t have an inkling of what is true and what was fabricated by Gregory the Great, and it goes on and on and on.
I have been livid about this since I was 15 years old. I don’t think the Church plays fair with Catholics who choose to seek others teachings that make more sense to them. To me it remains a shell game, and God is looking less and less like a loving God every day.
Limerick
- Status