Is abortion ever justified?

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Abbadon said:
I’ve never carried inside me the child of the man that brutally raped me nor given birth to him/her, what’s it like for the mother to do that? what happens to the psyche of the mother?
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When I asked this question I was hoping for research rather than opinion and anecdotal evidence. Does anyone actually know the answer to this question?
 
Abbadon said:
So you would tell her, her husband and her two children that she must die so that the baby inside her will live?

In a way then aren’t you choosing murder? Your letting her die, do you have that right? To choose her death?
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How would I be choosing her death or her life? She would be choosing. And I would hope that she would choose in such a way as to show her husband and her children that she loved them all, loved her new child and loved her Lord enough to die for them. The way He died for her and for all of them and all of us. I would hope that I would die so that my child could live. I hope that I would choose to die if you were in danger and my dying could save you. That’s what self-giving means. Giving self. Giving life. Giving my life for another. That is love. Not sentimentality but nitty gritty stark stuff. I could not look my husband or my children in the face ever again if I chose my life over my child’s. Over any child’s.
 
Abbadon said:
When I asked this question I was hoping for research rather than opinion and anecdotal evidence. Does anyone actually know the answer to this question?
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Just a thought: Have you researched it? Most of us here are not researchers and would most likely be in the same position as yourself. Have you considered asking people who actually work with women who have been through this? There are probably organizations that would be likely to have such information, or more likely than the majority of posters on a forum like this. Although it is possible that someone here may have done work like that. But you’re more likely to get a more meaningful reply if you ask in a more likely place.
 
Dear Abbadon, I gave you research, real truth, if you want to discuss it with me I will,with you. Just e-mail me and we can talk, you have to trust someone and I know you need answers so e-mail me. You are Loved Nancy
 
c659smith said:
Abortion is never justified. Can someone name me a time they believe abortion is justified and not rationalized?
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When the prospective mother is a nine-year-old girl. It’s obscene to deny the right to have an abortion in those circumstances, & doubly obscene to excommunicate any of those involved: as happened:​

Only her age saved the raped girl from being excommunicated with the others - that’s Catholic compassion :rolleyes:

Sometimes, abortion is the least bad way out of a situation. That is life.
 
wanner47 said:
So you believe that there are things impossible for God, and that there are no such things as miracles?

How do you reconcile that with your Catholic beliefs?
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Life would be very cushy if God dropped by with a miracle when miracles are needed. But the fact is, He doesn’t. So people have to do their best in situations which are very often impossible. It’s God’s fault, not theirs, that He works no miracles for them. Sometimes, an abortion is the only way out.​

It would be grossly irresponsible to arrange one’s life on the supposition that God will provide a way out of impossible situations. Besides, all this kerfuffle about abortion is a luxury for the rich. It’s fine for the Pope to hold forth :mad: - he has not one but two palaces to go to; he’s not stuck in a shanty town or a slum in Brazil or Haiti or South Africa. He does not have to live with the practical results of the burdens he lays upon others. He’s in no position to tell the poor what to do. :mad:

Addendum to post 341:

“In response to public anger, Brazilian bishops last week said that the excommunications were wrong and would not be applied.”
 
DLClark said:
Why kill the baby inside of a women. The baby did not do anything wrong. There is always adoption, but murder is always wrong. Q. What does God want us to do, kill the innocent person because of the sins of others? God is pro-life and so should we be in all circumstances.
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I know that the baby didn’t do anything wrong, but we cannot TRULY know the feeling until it happens to us. i believe God wants us to live our lives the way WE want to live them, alas, he is the one who ends up judging, not us. And I truly believe that it is not fair, when a women decides to do abort, and people at her church treat her different, WE ARE NO ONE TO JUDGE.

I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO IF I FOUND MYSELF IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS, BECAUSE I HAVE NOT LIVED IT, OR WILL I WANT TO LIVE IT, BUT I THANK YOU, BECAUSE ALTHOUGH U MAY OR MAY NOT AGREE WITH ME, YOU STILL TOOK THE TIME TO REPLY TO WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN. 🙂
 
biologybrain said:
two wrongs don’t make a right. The abortion does not remove the spector of abuse from the woman’s psyche. The abortion can actually make the situation worse b/c the guilt associated w/ rape (although there should be no guilt assigned to the victim, most victims feel guilty for one reason or another) is compounded w/ the guilt of abortion. Most cases of post-abortion syndrome involve women who already had a predilection for emotional/mental distress. Being raped can easily bring about post-traumatic syndrome which, when compounded w/ abortion can lead to further issues - not the resolution of the issue.

The compassionate option is to allow the baby to live & give it up for adoption. If the mother cannot stand to see the child and has flashbacks, she should remove herself/the child from the situation. There are countless couples waiting w/ open arms for children. If the mother chose to keep the baby even through the pain/struggle, she should undergo counselling and not be so harsh with her own child. The fact that the child was conceived in rape does not make the child bad. Anyone who cares for someone who’s been raped or is the product of rape knows that’s the first thing that needs to be established. The rape is not the woman’s fault, nor is it the child’s fault. The fault lies directly on the rapists back.

My mother was raped - not violently as you described, but it wounded her deeply. She was only 14-15. She was very frightened & had to see her rapist quite frequently. He was never officially charged/prosecuted. She carried the baby to term. Her parents adopted the baby and he was raised as my mom’s (his mom’s) brother. He knew early on that he was adopted & that my mom had a special place in his life (beyond that of sister). However, he knew he was cherished and loved both by his adoptive parents & his siblings. He looks remarkably like his father. It was difficult for my mother, but she knows the right choice was made. He deserved to live & he is a wonderful man, father, husband, brother, & uncle. There were times that his conception bothered him, but he had been raised to confront the issue up front. **he was reassured that genetics do not make the man - the circumstances and decisions made make the man. **

they lived in a very small town. My mother was ostracized by the community and to this day there are some who can only remember this one bad act committed on her. My mom holds her head up high and proud, as does my uncle. They did nothing wrong and have done much right, starting w/ living their lives to the best of their ability. Some would have taken that from them. Did my uncle not deserve to live just b/c his father made a bad choice? I am very grateful not everyone feels that way!
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what a story, thank you, but my aunt, the woman that i was talking about, is scared for life, maybe, sometimes it gos well, but my aunt’s life didnt go so well.
 
Disciple96 said:
How would I be choosing her death or her life? She would be choosing. And I would hope that she would choose in such a way as to show her husband and her children that she loved them all, loved her new child and loved her Lord enough to die for them. The way He died for her and for all of them and all of us. I would hope that I would die so that my child could live. I hope that I would choose to die if you were in danger and my dying could save you. That’s what self-giving means. Giving self. Giving life. Giving my life for another. That is love. Not sentimentality but nitty gritty stark stuff. I could not look my husband or my children in the face ever again if I chose my life over my child’s. Over any child’s.
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And you are entitled to make that choice to allow yourself to die and leave your husband to take care of the three children. But you cannot take away someone elses right to choose to be with their husband and a mother to the other two children. That is a decision they have to make for themselves…
 
aggiecatholic05 said:
no, we would not abort. My wife and i have discussed this. The child wouldnt be mine, but it would still be half her so i could love it. If she couldnt better to go the adoption route(very easy for babies to get adopted) than the murder route.

Now i have a hypothetical for you. Suppose your father was the man that raped this woman. He fled the country and couldnt be extradited. Could the police arrest you for his crime? A judge convict you? Could you be executed for what he did if he can’t be punished?
-my question is no different than aborting the child concieved through rape.
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yes, i would take responsibility for my fathers actions, we are all sinners. What if ur husband was the rapist?
 
Disciple96 said:
Just a thought: Have you researched it? Most of us here are not researchers and would most likely be in the same position as yourself. Have you considered asking people who actually work with women who have been through this? There are probably organizations that would be likely to have such information, or more likely than the majority of posters on a forum like this. Although it is possible that someone here may have done work like that. But you’re more likely to get a more meaningful reply if you ask in a more likely place.
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I just thought it might have been a question people had asked themselves previously, what does the woman feel? And have answers to it. Do people ever remember the woman in this case or is the fetus more important? Anyway I will at some point do some research and answer this question in the near future.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

When the prospective mother is a nine-year-old girl. It’s obscene to deny the right to have an abortion in those circumstances, & doubly obscene to excommunicate any of those involved: as happened:​

Only her age saved the raped girl from being excommunicated with the others - that’s Catholic compassion :rolleyes:

Sometimes, abortion is the least bad way out of a situation. That is life.
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How is excommunication a bad thing? You are catholic only in name, surely you would understand this… It’s more the demonizing of the people that did this act of kindness that I disagree with…
 
ceciliatherese said:
I am pro-life, but it seems to me that God is only pro-life when He wants to be, as He’s the maker of the moral law anyway. After reading this, I had my doubts 😦 evilbible.com/god%27s%20not%20pro-life.htm
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Before you jump to conclusions you need to learn to read evil propaganda critically.

I do not have time to reply to the link in full (I might try to find the time later on) but just a quick one on abortion and Hosea.

God is the author of life. If He chooses to terminate the Life He Himself created that is HIS PREROGATIVE. He knows what that life is for (He created it after all). We may have a little inkling of what that life is for but we do not know the full story nor do we need to. God does not owe us explanations.

Abortion by definition is our own human action of killing a child in the womb.

If we kill a man it is murder. If God decides that a man’s life is to end at the time He choses, it is not murder.

The whole problem with the entire article is it reeks of human arrogance and pride.

We are creatures. God is the creator totally Supreme.

When we learn to internalize that we will have learnt humility, the antidote to Adam’s sin of pride.
 
nancy_dalrymple said:
It’s like Hell all over again but you can make it,yes your additude changes and you become a frightened individual and hide alot, but if you can find someone who understands and will care for the life you saved, it is all worth it. It was not the childs fault and he or she has a right to live, and when they hand that child over to you and you hold him for the first time all seems to vanish, and only that child will matter to you if you have a woman’s instinct.The hard part is to bring that child up and pray that they will not carry on them what their father has done. You Are Loved Nancy " Suffer the little childern to come unto me, and forbid them NOT, for such is the kingdom of Heaven."
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How incredibly beautiful!!!:clapping:
 
Abbadon said:
I just thought it might have been a question people had asked themselves previously, what does the woman feel? And have answers to it. Do people ever remember the woman in this case or is the fetus more important? Anyway I will at some point do some research and answer this question in the near future.
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Firstlyl, calling the baby a fetus does not diminish her/his right to life. Foetal stage is just a stage in human development in the same manner as infant, baby, toddler, teen, middle aged, etc.

Secondly, there is a book called Victims and Victors that is a must read for all those advocates of abortion in cases of rape and incest. The only real study on this (by the authors) show that these victims themselves are the ones (by a majority) who opt to carry the pregnancy to full term.

So many who were not victims claim to speak for the victims rather than allowing the victims to speak for themselvs.

Having said that though, subjective victim opinion is not the definer of morality. God is.

If someone beat me up to pieces, I still do not have a right to beat him up to pieces.

Why do we want to murder a child who is as much a victim of the assault as the mother?
 
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