Is Abortion Ever Okay?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Roamin_Catholic_1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Roamin_Catholic_1

Guest
If a woman were to carry a severely disfigured child, and if she did not have an abortion, she, and the child would die, would it be okay to have an abortion? Is it justifiable to take the life of a fetus that would die ANYWAY, to save the life of a woman?
 
The baby can be delivered prematurely in whatever way would be necessary to save the mother, and kept alive as long as possible, which is not an abortion because it is a case of dual effect – the operation was done to save the mother, not to kill the child, and the child is treated with the respect a patient deserves, kept alive a while and comforted rather than being torn to pieces e.g. But the doctors should research every alternative treatment first.
 
I do not believe that direct abortion is ever condoned as a licit option. There are certain cases of rare ectopic pregnancies where the fertilized seed implants in the fallopian tubes (or doubly rarely in the abdomen, ovaries, or within the cervix) and will result in the imminent death of the mother and child due to rupture of the fallopian tubes is one special case.

There is no current medical treatment available that can guarantee the life of both mother and child. But The Church has given moral guidelines without specific official instructions about what options are morally licit or illicit. Most Catholic theologians accept full or partial salpingectomy (removal of the fallopian tube), as a morally acceptable medical intervention in these cases. This is not the same as a direct abortion and it is beyond my technical knowledge to know if its medically possible (highly doubtful) for the tubal tissue with intact fetus to be surgically relocated and reattached to the uterus.

Tubal pregnancies used to be fairly rare but have in modern times increased in frequency to the alarming rate of about 100,000 a year. So this is something that couples need to be concerned with. Reasons for increased incidence are statistically related to increasing risk factors: smoking, sexually transmitted diseases, tubal sterilizations, fertility drugs, and previous occurrences (in most cases behaviorally related factors). In fact, ectopic pregnancies are now the leading cause of maternal deaths in the first trimester when they do not result in a natural miscarriage. This kind of abnormal pregnancy leaves less than 10 weeks for its detection and a medical and moral decision before waiting for a miscarriage or for the tubes to rupture and risk hemorrhage and death.

The moral teachings of the Church call for medical treatment that respects the lives of both mother and child.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has promulgated moral principles for Catholics to follow in these cases:
  • In the case of extrauterine pregnancy, no intervention is morally licit which constitutes a direct abortion.
  • Operations, treatments and medications that have as their direct purpose the cure of a proportionately serious pathological condition of a pregnant woman are permitted when they cannot be safely postponed until the unborn child is viable, even if they will result in the death of the unborn child.
There is a great detailed discussion of this topic area for further insights here:
Catholics United For The Faith: Ectopic for Discussion - A Catholic Approach to Tubal Pregnancies

The bottom line is The Church NEVER permits the direct abortion of a child for ANY reason. Child and Mother must be given equal protection and moral consideration. Those opposed to Catholic teaching on morals and faith will often seek to attack the Church on this topic and claim we are just hiding behind double talk. But in fact The Church is very consistent and its motives of respecting all live (both mother and child) are highly consistent and compassionatly recognize and respect the difficult moral delimmas, grief of the parents and limited medical choices available.

Generally speaking, the child is dependent on the mother for life. At that time the uterus loses its ability to support the life of the embryo it is permitted to intervene to preserve the mother’s life. The difference between this and abortion is the motive within the limitations of remedial actions - there has been no intentional attack on the child. In cases where a hysterectomy needs to be performed (cancer while pregnant or tubal birth etc.) the mother and the uterus have been directly treated; a secondary effect is the UNAVOIDABLE death of a child whose death was imminent as a result of the mother losing her ability to sustain life. This should be seen more as an intervention to prevent an accidental double death rather than an illicit act to arbitrarily target one human over another for death as a matter of social convenience and lifestyle choice.

I hope this helps.

James
 
If a woman were to carry a severely disfigured child, and if she did not have an abortion, she, and the child would die, would it be okay to have an abortion? Is it justifiable to take the life of a fetus that would die ANYWAY, to save the life of a woman?
The fallacy in your argument is that you think you have certainty that the mother would die. You don’t. In fact there have been many recorded instances when the doctor assured the woman she would die unless she got an abortion, but she had the baby anyway, and didn’t die. Consequently, such perceived certainty does not exist.

Regardless, to better understand the moral ramifications, you ought to ask the same question with respect to a 5 year old child. Let’s say you make a similar argument: someone assures you that you must deliberately kill your 5 your old (or hire someone to kill them for you) or else both of you will surely die. Would you kill your own innocent 5 yr old on the chance that doing so might save your own life?

I could not.

I would have no assurance that the person is correct about my 5 yr old’s certain death. Nor would I have certainty that I myself will still not be killed, even if I chose to deliberately kill my own child. One thing I do know with absolute certainty, I ought not to kill innocent human life. I can’t control whether my child or I die. What I can control is my deliberate actions during my living years. So, whether I die or not, I know that if I do not deliberately kill innocent human life, I will have obeyed the will of God, which is really the only important thing.
 
direct abortion is intrinsically evil and always immoral, regardless of consequences or intention.

indirect abortion (an intervention which directly treats the mother, and only indirectly kills the prenatal) is permitted if the prenatal’s life cannot be saved.
 
If Is it justifiable to take the life of a fetus that would die ANYWAY, to save the life of a woman?
Such situations rarely occur, outside medical malpractice. It is permissible to deliver a baby surgically or naturally even when it may not have good chance of survival, and do all possible to save it, but abortion, where the baby is first killed, hacked to pieces and then removed. NO never nada no way. It is never morally good to do a definite murder to spare a possible death. It is permissible for the mother to accept other medical treatment, such as chemotherapy, radiation or surgery, even though it might have a harmful effect on the fetus, but never to directly kill the baby.

being disfigured or having a physical or developmental problem does not make one unfit to live, and is never an excuse to terminate an innocent life. If we accept this we then except the whole area of eugenics, and the direct murder of adults with disabilities.
 
It’s never ok to take a life. Even if the outcome appears to be good, the path that was taken (murder) makes the outcome intrinsically evil. This is also very presumptious of us to make the decision of one life being more valuable than the other, which is very sinful by itself.

The old saying applies, “the end doesn’t justify the means”.
 
It’s never ok to take a life. Even if the outcome appears to be good, the path that was taken (murder) makes the outcome intrinsically evil. This is also very presumptious of us to make the decision of one life being more valuable than the other, which is very sinful by itself.

The old saying applies, “the end doesn’t justify the means”.
Its not “the old saying” but an official Church teaching.
 
Think of a fire. The floor above you collapses. An eight-year-old boy falls through. He lands on your chest. Both your necks are twisted and broken. Firemen arrive. If they leave you like that you will almost certainly both die. If they pull the boy away he will die and you still might die. Can they legitimately beat him to death with fire shovels? No. Instead, as long a shot as it may be, they must remove him gingerly and place him on a stretcher with his head stabilized, and then do the same for you. It just shows respect for both lives to try to save both, even if the odds are slim to none.
 
no abortion is never ok. The baby’s life must be spared instead of the mother’s life. I believe it is in the Code of Canon Law somewhere, not sure where though. Trying to become more familiar with the Code of Canon Law this year
 
direct abortion is intrinsically evil and always immoral, regardless of consequences or intention.

indirect abortion (an intervention which directly treats the mother, and only indirectly kills the prenatal) is permitted if the prenatal’s life cannot be saved.
Isn’t this still causing the fetus to die, be it directly or indirectly?

And is this an official Vatican teaching on terminating a pregnancy? Can you post a link?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top