Is abstaining from meat or eating fish necessarily fasting?

[D.Erasmus.R]

I’m questioning if abstaining from meat or eating fish is always a form of fasting.
Now in the days when meat was a luxury, it made sense to consider abstaining from it as fasting. Nowadays, while there’s a lot who can’t go without meat, there’re plenty nice meat free things to eat, especially if you’re vegetarian. So abstaining from meat doesn’t seem to necessarily be a form of fasting. Some eating forms of meat might actually be pence, like meatloaf or offal.
While eating fish maybe pence in areas where fish is common, there’re plenty nice ways to have fish. Some even have a kind of seafood feast on Good Friday.
So I’m questioning if abstaining from meat or eating fish is actually fasting.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

No, it’s not fasting. It’s abstaining.

We are required to fast on some days, as in actually eat less food in addition to abstaining from meat, and to just abstain on other days.

I don’t see how you arrive at “in the days when meat was a luxury, it made sense to consider abstaining from it as fasting”. Most people couldn’t afford luxury food, so they would have been “fasting” almost every day by your definition.

I also don’t see how you think eating meatloaf is penance. Meatloaf is very tasty.
And how is eating fish penance “in areas where fish is common”? It’s part of the normal diet there, not a penance.

Sorry, but your whole post seems kind of confused.

If what you’re really saying is that it’s not a penance to go without something because there are other good food alternatives to eat, i would respond with:

• The fasting or abstaining rules are the minimum requirement and you can always voluntarily choose to do more
• Abstaining is primarily a symbolic gesture, not meant to be a huge penance (especially since, as I said above, many people throughout history couldn’t afford meat on a regular basis anyway).

 

[alyss531]

I think you can always do more, if you don’t think giving up meat is enough of a sacrifice. My husband and I are vegetarian, and have been for years, so we always do vegan Fridays.

 

[Uliana988]

Yeah, but offal is delicious. So, not a penance for me. If I had to eat lean meat (chicken breast, pork loin, round steak), that would be penance.

 

[BartholomewB]

You’ll find a full explanation on this old thread, incuding the difference between abstaining and fasting.

Lent/Fasting and Abstinence Liturgy and Sacraments

Ok, can someone please tell me what days we are supposed to fast and what days we are supposed to abstain. I seem to mix them up sometimes. Also are we supposed to cover our crucifixes during Lent?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Meatloaf at my house would never be a penance. Mine is the best. Experts agree

It is not good to be utterly serious all the time

 

[1ke]

I’m questioning if abstaining from meat or eating fish is always a form of fasting.

Abstinence involves the type of food eaten or not eaten.

Fasting involves the quantity.

Abstaining from meat is not fasting. It’s abstention. Eating fish is irrelevant.

Now in the days when meat was a luxury, it made sense to consider abstaining from it as fasting.

We abstain from flesh meat because Christ gave up his flesh for the life of the world.

So I’m questioning if abstaining from meat or eating fish is actually fasting.

Again, fasting has to do with quantity, not type.

You are asked to both abstain AND fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

You abstain on the other Fridays.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Meatloaf at my house would never be a penance. Mine is the best. Experts agree

My husband used to court me when we first met by bringing over meatloaf that he made himself, because I was on a perpetual diet and never had food in the house.
Worked pretty well.

 

[lilypadrees]

Regarding fish, tilapia is the most flavorless fish I’ve ever eaten. Lentil soup and grilled cheese sammies

 

[D.Erasmus.R]

Yes I’m being very subjective here.

 

[Uliana988]

Tilapia takes like aquarium tank to me. I can only eat it if it’s covered in a rich cream sauce.

 

[dochawk]

No, it’s not fasting. It’s abstaining.

But abstaining is a type of fasting.

Fasting is refraining from something. In the East, we actually fast from the Divine Liturgy itself on weekdays in lent.

Fasting is the restraint for spiritual growth, not necessarily reduced food intake.

Note that the Eastern fasting rules (which are quite similar to what the Western rules were long ago) are pretty much what the very poor ate in the Mediterranean in the first or second century . . .

Regarding fish, tilapia is the most flavorless fish I’ve ever eaten

And that’s among it’s better properly.

Most of the tilapia sold in the US comes from china–and if you look at how its raised, uhm, well, . . . .I won’t eat it unless I’ve confirmed another country of origin . . .

Tilapia takes like aquarium tank to me.

Uhh, yes, but, well, not quite that sanitary . . .

 

[Mary888]

It depends on your taste preference. I understand that fasting has to be like a sacrifice", to help us overcome our own material passions.
For me giving up meat is somewhat easy since I only eat it for health reasons and to not make a fuss at the family table. The meat industry is mainly pretty cruel with animals and all that impressed in my teens and it remains like something sensible to me. Some animals we breed for love and others for eating.
Considering my reasons are parallel to the biblical restrictions on food, so they are not God’s commandments but my own ideas, I don’t think it is a sacrifice for me to abstain from eat.
With fish is different since I like it a lot. And giving up sea fruits or shellfish is definitely just because of Lent and because of Leviticus. I love shellfish but it is true that the Bible teaches us not eat it (who knows? maybe there is a reason why God told us not to eat anything from the sea without back bones; maybe one day we will discover the role of shellfish in the ocean and maybe they cleanse the ocean so this is why He told us not to eat it because it’s packed with all the garbage in the ocean; I know research has been done regarding sea squirts and it has been observed that their role is actually to cleanse the sea).

 

[D.Erasmus.R]

I’m sorry for all you offal & meatloaf lovers.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

But abstaining is a type of fasting.

While I understand what you are saying, given the way the Western Catholic Church uses the terms “fasting” and “abstaining”, your statement just makes things more confusing for people who are already confused.

I personally am always baffled that people cannot seem to understand (or look up) the simple rules for a “fast day” and an “abstinence day” in Latin Catholicism, but it is what it is. A “Fast Day” is one thing, and an “Abstinence Day” is another thing. It’s kind of like the legal definition of terms: the legal definition says one thing even if there are nuances in the plain meaning of the words.

Theological discussions of how abstinence is a type of fasting are way beyond the level of people who ask basic questions about this subject. It just gets them muddled as to what they’re supposed to do on Ash Wednesday.

For this particular thread, the OP’s questions and statements were unusual to the point where it seemed he really did not have even a basic grasp of the concept.

So, while I understand what you’re getting at, saying that “abstaining is a type of fasting” is about 3 levels of understanding higher than where this OP seems to be with his thread. Just my opinion.

 

[Uliana988]

Offal is delicious and nutritious.

 

[Mi_Rose]

offal is awful :crazy_face:

 

[dochawk]

So, while I understand what you’re getting at, saying that “abstaining is a type of fasting” is about 3 levels of understanding higher than where this OP seems to be with his thread.

I’m a displaced professor.

I can’t help trying to educate!

 

[Cruciferi]

Tenure Track is hard to find nowadays

 

[dochawk]

Especially if you’re not wiling to move

My house is paid off, my cars are paid off, I have no debt to speak of, and my retirement accounts should let me retire comfortably in my early 60s.

It’s hard to get me to consider moving . . . I can drive classic cars twelve months a year here, and we just had a snow, so no more for another decade, good air connections to see family . . .