Is abstinance our only option?

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So I was thinking about this during dinner and discussing it with my husband.

Let me see if I have this situation straight. The contraception advocates are suggesting to the OP that he and his wife are best served in this situation by using contraception. The NFP advocates are saying that very conservative use of NFP might be a possible option to total abstinence. Then there are others who say nothing is reliable enough other than total abstinence.

Even if I were not Catholic I would be looking at the option of contraception with a very :ehh:.

The suggestion of contraception seems irresponsible at best. To suggest a tiny bit of latex or a little bit of foam is like putting a loaded gun in someone’s hand and saying, “try to point that way.” We are talking death here folks. The suggestion to have sex randomly when pregnancy might bring about death is just plain bad advice. From a purely health standpoint the only options that hold any water here are total abstinence or extremely conservative interpretation of NFP rules.

Any sex during possible fertility is just playing Russian roulette (with an apologetic nod to any of my Russian friends.)
 
LittleDeb said:
So I was thinking about this during dinner and discussing it with my husband.

Let me see if I have this situation straight. The contraception advocates are suggesting to the OP that he and his wife are best served in this situation by using contraception. The NFP advocates are saying that very conservative use of NFP might be a possible option to total abstinence. Then there are others who say nothing is reliable enough other than total abstinence.

Even if I were not Catholic I would be looking at the option of contraception with a very :ehh:.

The suggestion of contraception seems irresponsible at best. To suggest a tiny bit of latex or a little bit of foam is like putting a loaded gun in someone’s hand and saying, “try to point that way.” We are talking death here folks. The suggestion to have sex randomly when pregnancy might bring about death is just plain bad advice. From a purely health standpoint the only options that hold any water here are total abstinence or extremely conservative interpretation of NFP rules.

Any sex during possible fertility is just playing Russian roulette (with an apologetic nod to any of my Russian friends.)
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vasectormy, condom with spermicide
 
Karin said:
well what does your Bible tell you God’s Law is:D ??
or what does your Pastor tell you God’s law is??
I have a feeling our ideas on what is or is not God’s law may differ…😦
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I follow the greatest commandment.
And The other eight.
Not the sabbath.
I live life according to epistles and gospels
 
LittleDeb said:
Trading in one spouse’s health problems for two spouses’ health problems. see link here dontfixit.org/ More confidence in the man-made devices by using two? Failure means her death. That is an enormous gamble you are asking them to take.
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if she gets pregnant you know what she could do to save her life.
 
I should have phrased my original post better … I was looking for the “Catholic answer”. FYI, leaving the Catholic church is not an option for me … I’m home and I love it.
 
DiggidyDog said:
I should have phrased my original post better … I was looking for the “Catholic answer”. FYI, leaving the Catholic church is not an option for me … I’m home and I love it.
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abstinence till menopause
 
newbie1234 said:
i don’t have to follow Moses law.
…
Nothing in the new covenant about contraception.
…
The thread is about a man who can’t have sex with his wife because if she gets pregnant she could DIE.
So the church stance is either abstinence or nfp.
If the guy uses contraception IT IS A SIN.
It is absolutely ludicrous to control that man’s life like that.
…
Abstinance, NFP… or of course the third option of leaving the Roman Catholic Church.
I go with 3
…
vasectormy, condom with spermicide
…
if she gets pregnant you know what she could do to save her life.
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I’ve been watching this thread, and I have to call your attention, newbie, to the slippery slope you’ve travelled down.

Accepting contraception is really indicative of a whole mindset about love, sex, and the human person–and we can see it right here.

From saying bc must not be sinful, to recommending that a man sterilize himself, to underhandedly advocating abortion–the murder of an innocent unborn child–all in the interest of sexual pleasure!

This is exactly the thought process of many morally relativistic Americans today…and it’s sad.

This is all because you can’t fathom that God might ask continence of His people. To legalistically search the Bible for a direct condemnation of contraception is futile, and more importantly shows that you’d rather follow your own passions than conform your will to God’s.

You’re missing out on the richness what it means to be human, and what human sexual love means.

Contracepting in the end amounts to using the woman for sexual pleasure, not an expression of the couple’s love. Sex is a complete gift of each spouse to the other. But using contraception, the husband essentially de-values his wife’s gift of her fertility by trying as hard as he may to get around it, and refuses to give all of himself by withholding his own fertility (this was the sin of Onan, which you are loathe to accept but which LittleDeb was talking about).

As tough as it must be for the OP, the only acceptable way for a Catholic to deal with the situation he and his wife are in is to learn as much as they possibly can about NFP and to use it very carefully. I’d recommend praying a lot, talking to a good priest, and perhaps investigating Dr. Hilgers’ Pope Paul VI institute in Nebraska–maybe they’ll have some helpful medical advice which no one here can give you.

OP-- God bless you and your wife’s faithfulness!
 
LittleDeb said:
Please show me these failure rates of NFP. Please remember that coitus interuptus is not NFP so any source which includes it is incorrect. Withdrawl is a contraceptive method that uses no devices. In stats it belongs under contraception. The methods referenced here (Billings, Creighton, STM) are very reliable in planned conception, both avoiding and achieving.

Please reread the link I sent you from ScriptureCatholic. It shows that this interpretation is faulty.
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_family_planning
 
I don’t know how any good Catholic can use nfp and not think they are getting around Gods will to multiply.
If it is sinful to use bc, then it is sinful to use nfp period
If you don’t want to or can’t have children then ABSTINANCE.
To the op- abstinence till menopause or risk death or sin.
To everyone else: if you think bc is sinful, but you’ll deny God by figuring out a womans cycle, then only have sex at the worst time to concieve, I have news for you: God Almighty, the Maker of the Universe, knows what is in your heart. Remember Ananias and Sephira.
I don’t care what special dispensation the Catholic Church has made up (nfp)
 
newbie1234 said:
I don’t know how any good Catholic can use nfp and not think they are getting around Gods will to multiply.
If it is sinful to use bc, then it is sinful to use nfp period
If you don’t want to or can’t have children then ABSTINANCE.
To the op- abstinence till menopause or risk death or sin.
To everyone else: if you think bc is sinful, but you’ll deny God by figuring out a womans cycle, then only have sex at the worst time to concieve, I have news for you: God Almighty, the Maker of the Universe, knows what is in your heart. Remember Ananias and Sephira.
I don’t care what special dispensation the Catholic Church has made up (nfp)
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NEWBIE…
I really have takne offense by many of your posts…but besides the point…WHAT DO YOU CARE WHAT US "GOOD"CATHOLICS DO???
If you are so worried about the use of NFP then perhaps you should actually learn something about it and how it can be used or not used based on OUR faith/religion…may I suggest you contact Dr.Hilgers (** In 1994, Dr. Hilgers was appointed to permanent membership to the Pontifical Academy for Life.)** at the Pope Paul VI Insititue 🙂
 
mikew262 said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_family_planning
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I got a kick out of the so called “Disadvantages” of NFP, many of seem to revolve around the frustration of being deprived of sex on demand. Gotta love the secular take.
Disadvantages
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•The fertility awareness and statistical forms of NFP require periodic abstinence, known as continence, most commonly 8-10 days of each menstrual cycle. It is common for the woman’s sexual desire to be highest on those fertile days, and low in other parts of the cycle. [26] That the couple must abstain from sex during the woman’s periods of peak sexual desire may be deeply frustrating for both partners, and lead to feelings of isolation.[27]
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•Couples seeking the lowest risk of pregnancy (less than 1% per year) may be required to abstain for more than half of each menstrual cycle.
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•Some schools of NFP teach that orgasmic acts outside of intercourse, such as oral sex and masturbation, are incompatible with the correct practice of NFP. Some couples are not comfortable with this restriction. Periodic abstinence also limits spontaneous sex.[31]
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•NFP does not protect against sexually transmitted disease.[31]
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newbie1234 said:
I don’t know how any good Catholic can use nfp and not think they are getting around Gods will to multiply.
If it is sinful to use bc, then it is sinful to use nfp period
If you don’t want to or can’t have children then ABSTINANCE.
To the op- abstinence till menopause or risk death or sin.
To everyone else: if you think bc is sinful, but you’ll deny God by figuring out a womans cycle, then only have sex at the worst time to concieve, I have news for you: God Almighty, the Maker of the Universe, knows what is in your heart. Remember Ananias and Sephira.
I don’t care what special dispensation the Catholic Church has made up (nfp)
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Can you offer an explanation how you reconcile the use of ABC with Natural law?
 
setter said:
Can you offer an explanation how you reconcile the use of ABC with Natural law?
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I cannot use scripture to validate its use.
Just like I cannot use scripture to validate the use of a toothbrush.
But I can use scripture to prove that no where does it say that abc is sinful.
So then it is lawful.
Is it Gods will for me to use it?
I am single and trying to practice celibacy.
I have time to devote my whole life to God.
If God was to put a Christian woman in my life to marry, then I would marry her. If then we were led to believe that a child would take us away from serving God fully, then abc would be within His will for us. If we were led to have a baby and chose to use abc for our own selfish reasons then we would not be in Gods will.
 
mikew262 said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_family_planning
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Sorry, but Wiki’s very first source that references 25% failure is a contraception source. No go. Remember that I said that contraception advocates put withdrawl under “natural.” Your source’s numbers don’t add up with what is presented. It also references the rhythm method as the “most widely known” then includes its failure rate. Sorry, Rhythm may be the most widely known, but it is NOT the most used.

The common use failure rate you present has no real backing. Please give me a source that does the math. ie. this method common use failure, that method common use failure rate, then all add up to the 25%. For authentic scholarship you would then do the same with contraception common use failure rates. I don’t buy into stats that are pulled out of thin air.

EDIT: From Wiki’s contraception source: “*Most perfect-use rates have been clinically evaluated, but some are based on clinical expertise or “best guesses” (such as some forms of periodic abstinence, withdrawal and no method use).”
 
LittleDeb said:
The common use failure rate you present has no real backing. Please give me a source that does the math. ie. this method common use failure, that method common use failure rate, then all add up to the 25%. For authentic scholarship you would then do the same with contraception common use failure rates. I don’t buy into stats that are pulled out of thin air.

EDIT: From Wiki’s contraception source: “*Most perfect-use rates have been clinically evaluated, but some are based on clinical expertise or “best guesses” (such as some forms of periodic abstinence, withdrawal and no method use).”
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Agreed. Symptothermal method is documented to have a 13.7 pearl rating [M.E. Wade, Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1981 Oct 15;141(4):368-76.]. This assumes regular use. Perfect use will typically produce results with 1/10 the original pearl rating. These are very loose estimates toward percentage chance of becoming pregnant over a year. This is somewhat better than condoms and some IUD’s (and interestingly, use of barrier methods with symptothermal methods shows unsubstantial improvement).

Oral contraceptives do have a much higher chance of success, according to this study.
 
noma said:
Agreed. Symptothermal method is documented to have a 13.7 pearl rating [M.E. Wade, Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1981 Oct 15;141(4):368-76.]. This assumes regular use. Perfect use will typically produce results with 1/10 the original pearl rating. These are very loose estimates toward percentage chance of becoming pregnant over a year. This is somewhat better than condoms and some IUD’s (and interestingly, use of barrier methods with symptothermal methods shows unsubstantial improvement).

Oral contraceptives do have a much higher chance of success, according to this study.
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I’m not familiar with the term “pearl rating.” The stats on NFP are confusing either way. Take me for example. By some stats my current pregnancy would be considered an NFP “failure.” We consider it quite the success! It only took two months of trying to conceive to succeed.

Sadly, contraception advocates don’t understand a very important distinction between natural planning methods and contraception. Contraception always involves a sex act. No conception with NFP involves the absence of the sex act. (and/or the natural absence of fertility.) So this makes gathering stats on “success” or “failure” somewhat futile. Since the terms are defined so badly by secular society, the bias towards results is skewed.

Maybe when secular society again sees children as a blessing, it will revamp it’s definitions to consider the conception of new life an outstanding success!
 
As much as I advocate for NFP, I do question the statistics on it. Remember that infertility patients use NFP to concieve, they are being thrown into the mix of statistics! Im going to NFP classes and I am the only person who is using it to not concieve, the rest are somewhat infertile!
 
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