Is abstinance our only option?

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While I realize I’m “swimming up stream” here, IMO, this is precisely one of the reasons why the Church needs to revisit the contraception issue, at least on a limited basis.

While I do see some merit in the denial of abortion causing contraceptives, I don’t in the other types.

While couples (including this one) should be educated and encouraged in NFP, it shouldn’t be their only choice, nor should it be considered a sin, if they opt for another option due to medical considerations. I consider abstainance a poor choice for folks who enjoy physical intimacy and use this intimacy to express their love for one another. Part of the sexual experience is spontaneity (sp?), and NFP inhibits this to a large degree, unless you are in the “allowed zone”.

Just my thoughts, right or wrong.
 
mikew262 said:
While I realize I’m “swimming up stream” here, IMO, this is precisely one of the reasons why the Church needs to revisit the contraception issue, at least on a limited basis.

While I do see some merit in the denial of abortion causing contraceptives, I don’t in the other types.

While couples (including this one) should be educated and encouraged in NFP, it shouldn’t be their only choice, nor should it be considered a sin, if they opt for another option due to medical considerations. I consider abstainance a poor choice for folks who enjoy physical intimacy and use this intimacy to express their love for one another. Part of the sexual experience is spontaneity (sp?), and NFP inhibits this to a large degree, unless you are in the “allowed zone”.

Just my thoughts, right or wrong.
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I have to claim ignorance here.
Am I correct in assuming: abc means birth control which is determined by the church as sinful against God

nfp is the rhythem method or having sex while avoiding the womans ovulation and this is the only form of family planning the catholic church will accept.
Am I accurate?
 
newbie1234 said:
I have to claim ignorance here.
Am I correct in assuming: abc means birth control which is determined by the church as sinful against God

nfp is the rhythem method or having sex while avoiding the womans ovulation and this is the only form of family planning the catholic church will accept.
Am I accurate?
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Well close, but not quite. The rhythm method is a form of NFP, but is not a very reliable form. It is outdated by at least 50 years. The rhythm method refers to a the Calendar Rhythm Method developed in the 1930’s that predicted ovulation based on average cycles.

The methods of NFP referred to here are Billings Ovulation Method, The Creighton Model, and Sympto-Thermal Method. These are methods that are very accurate in predicting fertility. When you hear about NFP being “unreliable” it is almost always the Calendar rhythm method that is being referenced.

You are correct that NFP refers to Natural Family Planning, and one of the ways to prevent conception is abstaining during fertility. It also though, includes ecological breast-feeding which causes extended natural infertility. Here’s one site to look at. www.ccli.org

Welcome to the forums! 👋
 
LittleDeb said:
Well close, but not quite. The rhythm method is a form of NFP, but is not a very reliable form. It is outdated by at least 50 years. The rhythm method refers to a the Calendar Rhythm Method developed in the 1930’s that predicted ovulation based on average cycles.

The methods of NFP referred to here are Billings Ovulation Method, The Creighton Model, and Sympto-Thermal Method. These are methods that are very accurate in predicting fertility. When you hear about NFP being “unreliable” it is almost always the Calendar rhythm method that is being referenced.

You are correct that NFP refers to Natural Family Planning, and one of the ways to prevent conception is abstaining during fertility. It also though, includes ecological breast-feeding which causes extended natural infertility. Here’s one site to look at. www.ccli.org

Welcome to the forums! 👋
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Thank you for the clarity.
When did contraception become sinful?
 
mikew262 said:
While I realize I’m “swimming up stream” here, IMO, this is precisely one of the reasons why the Church needs to revisit the contraception issue, at least on a limited basis.
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Mike, the problem here is that you believe the Church can “revisit” the issue of contraception and alow it. The Church cannot. Contraception is intrinsically disordered, meaning it is always sinful-- and that is a part of the deposit of faith. The Deposit of Faith cannot change.

Your statement above is equivalent of saying “The Church should revisit the stealing issue, at least on a limited basis” or “The Church should revisit the abortion issue, at least on a limited basis”.

It’s not possible to “revisit” what is an intrinsic evil.
 
1ke said:
It’s not possible to “revisit” what is an intrinsic evil.
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There lies the issue. Why is it intrinsicly evil? Abortion is rather obvious, however Contraception, at least certain types, does not destroy anything. If you respond, pls don’t say because the Church says so. I’d like to read something a little more substantial.
 
mikew262 said:
I consider abstainance a poor choice for folks who enjoy physical intimacy and use this intimacy to express their love for one another. Part of the sexual experience is spontaneity (sp?), and NFP inhibits this to a large degree, unless you are in the “allowed zone”.

Just my thoughts, right or wrong.
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I am going to seriously disagree with you on the “spontaneity” issue. Condoms are not spontaneous. My husband, a convert, came out of a former invalid marriage. You could not PAY him to go back to condoms. “Devices” are NOT spontaneous. NFP is real spontaneity. You decide on the marital act based on your circumstances. A spontaneous vacation can also be a lot of fun. But to make a choice to go on a vacation that endangers your job, your children, or your safety, is not spontaneous. It is irresponsible.

Condoms break, foams fail, diaphrams slip. I don’t understand how a man whose wife could die from pregnancy can find himself aroused during her fertility. I would think that a couple in that situation would know that arousal during fertility is not a good arousal.
 
newbie1234 said:
Thank you for the clarity.
When did contraception become sinful?
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Actually the real question is when did it become NOT sinful? Before 1930 ALL Christian churches were against contraception. Google “lambeth” and see what comes up.

EDIT: try lambeth and contraception, might narrow the search.
 
LittleDeb said:
Actually the real question is when did it become NOT sinful? Before 1930 ALL Christian churches were against contraception. Google “lambeth” and see what comes up.

EDIT: try lambeth and contraception, might narrow the search.
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So in 1930 or before someone figured that using a condom was a sin against God?
Or was there some revelation from God to a vatican council that made it clear to them that He didn’t want anyone to use birth control?
 
newbie1234 said:
So in 1930 or before someone figured that using a condom was a sin against God?
Or was there some revelation from God to a vatican council that made it clear to them that He didn’t want anyone to use birth control?
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Well obviously you didn’t read what I asked. Lambeth was an Anglican council, not a Catholic one. Until 1930 NO Christians used contraception. It was considered a sin by ALL Christians.
 
LittleDeb said:
I am going to seriously disagree with you on the “spontaneity” issue. Condoms are not spontaneous. My husband, a convert, came out of a former invalid marriage. You could not PAY him to go back to condoms. “Devices” are NOT spontaneous. NFP is real spontaneity. You decide on the marital act based on your circumstances. A spontaneous vacation can also be a lot of fun. But to make a choice to go on a vacation that endangers your job, your children, or your safety, is not spontaneous. It is irresponsible.

Condoms break, foams fail, diaphrams slip. I don’t understand how a man whose wife could die from pregnancy can find himself aroused during her fertility. I would think that a couple in that situation would know that arousal during fertility is not a good arousal.
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My bad, I reread my post (concerning spontaneity) and I got it backwards, so I retract it. I have nothing against NFP per say, however some stats show it’s failure rate can be as high as 25%. Obviously, the rate depends on how closely the couple follows the correct procedures.
 
LittleDeb said:
Well obviously you didn’t read what I asked. Lambeth was an Anglican council, not a Catholic one. Until 1930 NO Christians used contraception. It was considered a sin by ALL Christians.
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I am sorry I did not look at that link.
I was looking at my bible.
Do all christians still believe that contraception is a sin in your estimation?
 
newbie1234 said:
I am sorry I did not look at that link.
I was looking at my bible.
Do all christians still believe that contraception is a sin in your estimation?
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here’s is a good biblical reference. scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html You can read it in context there. Scripture condems contraception all over the place. Some modern people feel qualified to interpret for themselves without understanding biblical terms. Protestants that I know have rethought contraception once they really read scripture about it.
 
If we look at 1cor10:23 “all things are lawful” how could contraception be a sin?
 
newbie1234 said:
If we look at 1cor23 “all things are lawful” how could contraception be a sin?
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1cor23? What is that? It’s not first Corinthians. That only has 16 chapters. I am not sure what you are referencing.
 
LittleDeb said:
here’s is a good biblical reference. scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html You can read it in context there. Scripture condems contraception all over the place. Some modern people feel qualified to interpret for themselves without understanding biblical terms. Protestants that I know have rethought contraception once they really read scripture about it.
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Some of the quotes at this link state that childbirth is a gift from God and we should go forth and multiply and to deviate from Gods plan would be sinful. If you use nfp aren’t you deviating from Gods plan to multiply?
 
newbie1234 said:
Some of the quotes at this link state that childbirth is a gift from God and we should go forth and multiply and to deviate from Gods plan would be sinful. If you use nfp aren’t you deviating from Gods plan to multiply?
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This conversation is jumping all over the place. Nowhere in scripture are we commanded to have as many babies as the human is capable of. NFP is self control.
 
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