Is abstinence for meat always a sacrifice?

[TrueLight]

If fasting is just a routine, then it is worthless. Better to not fast.

I think by “routine”, he or she means “practice”.

 

[57classic]

Depends on how you fast. If you are fasting completely - only water and juice, no food at all - then you probably should check with someone. But until V2, the church mandated that everyone fast the entire 40 days of Lent. How? Because the church says that when we fast, we can have 1 meal per day plus 2 small snacks. It’s not that hard to do, assuming you don’t have any medical problems like diabetes. You don’t get sick, you just get really hungry. The hard part is when it’s only fruit and vegs. I have never been able to do that one.

And the great side effect of lowering the obesity rate.
I read somewhere that the reason for the Lenten fast was because when most of the world was agriculturally based, in the early spring cows aren’t giving milk and chickens aren’t laying eggs yet. The meat butchered the previous fall was mostly used up and hunting might or might not result in tonight’s supper. Dryed fuits, vegtables, grains and early spring shoots were all that was readily avialable. Fasting and abstinence was a daily reality. The Church allowed people to offer up their suffering giving their day to day existence a closer walk with Jesus’ own suffering. I have no idea how true this is so don’t jump all over me…it does make some sense though.

 

[Brooklyn]

Rubbish!
Try fasting on a long period of time.20, 30, 40, years or so and it will become a “routine”.
A very, very, beautiful routine!

I have to agree with you. Fasting has never been easy for me, no matter how often I do it. But I think it’s an important spiritual practice. It’s good to say “no” to ourselves.

 

[Brooklyn]

not a diet plan.fasting.not a unusual penance,and it is not a mortification.fasting more than one day in a row would call for consultation.

I missed this the first time I looked at your post - fasting is not a mortification? Says who? Maybe you enjoy fasting, but I sure don’t, and I definitely consider it a mortification. Any time we deny ourselves, that is a mortification.

 

[asd72]

If fasting is just a routine, then it is worthless. Better to not fast.

We are talking about Friday abstinence not fasting. It is a precept of the Church in the UK to abstain from meat on Fridays at the very least. Besides I didn’t mean doing things mindlessly, but just getting into regular good habits.

 

[asd72]

I missed this the first time I looked at your post - fasting is not a mortification? Says who? Maybe you enjoy fasting, but I sure don’t, and I definitely consider it a mortification. Any time we deny ourselves, that is a mortification.

Yes I believe you can often use similar methods for mortification and penance. Denying ourselves small pleasures strengthens our will and avoids slavery to created goods which is mortification. And we can also offer it up in union with Christs Sacrifice in reparation for sin as penance.

I think that’s right?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Rubbish!
Try fasting on a long period of time.20, 30, 40, years or so and it will become a “routine”.
A very, very, beautiful routine!

If its something you just do, then its meaningless. St. John Chrysostom has warned in his writings that fasting for the sake of fasting is fruitless. I know Indians who are vegetarians and even vegans. Are they holy people for not eating meat at all?

I think by “routine”, he or she means “practice”.

Perhaps.

We are talking about Friday abstinence not fasting. It is a precept of the Church in the UK to abstain from meat on Fridays at the very least. Besides I didn’t mean doing things mindlessly, but just getting into regular good habits.

Abstinence is just a type of fasting. Fasting means to give up something, not necessarily food. Giving up a type of food such as meat is fasting also. The Latin Church just wanted some clarity on the distinction between giving some a type of food from giving up all food, thus they came up with the term. You will not read Church Fathers like St. John Chrysostom separate fasting from abstinence.

 

[Brooklyn]

Yes I believe you can often use similar methods for mortification and penance. Denying ourselves small pleasures strengthens our will and avoids slavery to created goods which is mortification. And we can also offer it up in union with Christs Sacrifice in reparation for sin as penance.

I think that’s right?

I think that’s right. I can’t remember who it was, but I remember some saint saying that we should say “no” to ourselves at least once every day, even if it’s something so small as to resist a piece of candy. That is how we unite ourselves with Jesus Christ. The way of the world is always to please ourselves and fulfill whatever desires we have. The Way of the Cross is self denial. That is what abstinence on Friday is all about. That is the day we commemorate our Lord’s sacrifice on the cross We join with his sacrifice through through penance and self denial.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

I think that’s right. I can’t remember who it was, but I remember some saint saying that we should say “no” to ourselves at least once every day, even if it’s something so small as to resist a piece of candy. That is how we unite ourselves with Jesus Christ. The way of the world is always to please ourselves and fulfill whatever desires we have. The Way of the Cross is self denial. That is what abstinence on Friday is all about. That is the day we commemorate our Lord’s sacrifice on the cross We join with his sacrifice through through penance and self denial.

Modern/contemporary life makes it SO easy to gratify ourselves and our desires.

Aldous Huxley really nailed it on the head in Brave New World.

• PAX

 

[Brooklyn]

Modern/contemporary life makes it SO easy to gratify ourselves and our desires.

Aldous Huxley really nailed it on the head in Brave New World.

• PAX

I would go so far as to say that our times are all about self gratification and little else, the complete antithesis of Christianity. “If it feels good, do it.” You’re certainly right about Aldous Huxley.

 

[thomas_jd]

The power or efficaciousness of fasting (abstinence) can be clearly seen in Matt:17 , 21
“But this kind does not go except thru prayer and fasting”
Jesus speaking to the apostles in response to the question of why they could not drive out a demon.
Over forty years of prayer have not driven out the demon of abortion, now Prayer & Fasting
is the next step!
Powerfull weapon in the eyes of God.

 

[Big_Feet]

I usually abstain from meat as my Friday penance outside of Lent. I usually end up eating cheese pizza on Fridays. Pizza is my favorite, so I tend to really look forward to Friday. Should I choose a different penance, since I am not really making any sacrifice, or is it enough that I am just making a change?

An interesting blog post on the reasons for abstinence from meat on Fridays:
newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2012/03/why-do-catholics-abstain-from-meat.html

We abstain from meat in order to quiet our passions
St. Thomas Aquinas summarizes the traditional position well:
"Fasting was instituted by the Church in order to bridle the concupiscences of the flesh, which regard pleasures of touch in connection with food and sex. Wherefore the Church forbade those who fast to partake of those foods which both afford most pleasure to the palate, and besides are a very great incentive to lust. Such are the flesh of animals that take their rest on the earth, and of those that breath the air and their products, such as milk and eggs.” (ST II-II, q. 147, a.8)