Is AIDS punishment from God for Gay people?

[Newbie2]

Newbie2;3437518:

Yep, the idea still exists, but as mentioned it’s difficult to buy that notion.

I do wonder sometimes if the Almighty uses such circumstances to bend or modify our behavior, though…kinda like throwing up a challenge to we humans as a whole.

While this line of thought isn’t theologically sound…it illustrates that certain behaviors are not good for us; adultry, homosexuality, premarital sex, drug abuse etc. If we had not participated in these things, again as a human race, not necessarily as individuals, there would be no AIDS epidemic.

QUOTE]

This is not true. It is well documented that HIV originated in Africa when native tribes ate chimpanzees that were infected with a similar virus. Through viral adaptation, much like that of the yearly pandemic influenza strains, it came to be successful in causing pathologies in humans. When a tribesman moved from the inner jungle to seek the city life, he brought HIV with him.

While IV drug users and homosexuals are statistically at higher risk for contracting HIV, it is has not been confirmed that HIV was initially spread across continents by the gay community or through drug use. Actually, because the US blood filtering systems were not sophisticated enough to filter out tiny viral particles, many many thousands of hemophiliacs and others who received blood transfusions were infected before HIV was discovered in the blood banks. There is also a huge population of health care professionals, especially nurses who encounter HIV regularly and are at risk for exposure to infected blood and needle sticks. The point is, it is impossible to tell. From what we know about viral adaptation, is theorized HIV actually developed in the 1920s to 1950s. That’s a lot of people that have since interacted and traveled the world.
I agree that it is likely that more conservative behavior would have reduced the speed of the spread of HIV.
To say that HIV would not be a pandemic if we were more responsible is a gross misunderstanding of the nature of how viral diseases spread.

I did say that I wonder, not surmise that it’s factual. In any case, the point is that those certain behaviors have been a significant source of spread of HIV.

 

[rinnie]

No any kind of evil, disease come from the Devil. Not God. God is the one who helps us and picks up the pieces. God would never hurt us he loves us.

 

[buffalo]

I’m hoping that you understand that many children and adults suffer from a variety of illnesses, (some always fatal), through NO fault of their own. To pretend that consequences land with perpetrators only is very far from the reality of illness. All of us are called to sacrificial suffering and we can often see it at work in the lives of children and adults who suffer serious illnesses.

Epigenetics is showing that our lifestyle and effect of the environment can manifest itself in disease.

The consequences affect all of us.

We do know smokers get cancer. Stay away from cigarettes and your chances of getting it go way down. Live a clean and healthy lifestyle and your chances of dying from natural causes at a ripe old age go up.

Epigenetics show that our lifestyle choices can be passed to our children. Again, good stewardship of our bodies is important. Remember the saying - our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?

 

[catharina]

Epigenetics is showing that our lifestyle and effect of the environment can manifest itself in disease.

The consequences affect all of us.

We do know smokers get cancer. Stay away from cigarettes and your chances of getting it go way down. Live a clean and healthy lifestyle and your chances of dying from natural causes at a ripe old age go up.

Epigenetics show that our lifestyle choices can be passed to our children. Again, good stewardship of our bodies is important. Remember the saying - our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?

I clearly remember the teaching (not a saying) that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.

I also know that suffering and disease abound among the very poor who have, in many cases, done little to “deserve” or “win” the grace of suffering and disease. Maybe you should remember that in following Jesus Christ, all are called to a life of sacrificial suffering.

 

[truagape]

The Church has NEVER taught that AIDS is a punishment from God for gay people.

Hank Hannograth (sp) better known as “The Bible Answer Man” publically stated on his national radio program earlier this year that the latter part of Romans chapter 1 had a divine correlation to gays and the AIDS virus. I wanted to strangle him!! He’s a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.

As far as the Catholic Church’s official teaching as documented in the Catechism, your right, the claim "AIDS is a punishment from God for gay people" isn’t there. The Catechism predates the understanding of AIDS.

 

[mangy_dog]

Curious if this idea still exists. I heard it when I was 12 in a chat room. I cried.

The simple, straight forward answer to this question is - No.

Now…is the question being asked correct in its context and its wording? That answer is also - No!

Lets take this by parts. AIDS is not the “punishment of God” - AIDS is the consequence of our own concupiscence, our own desire to do things our way.

Did AIDS come about because of homosexual acts exclusively? No.
Unprotected homosexual/heterosexual acts do nothing to curb the spread of AIDS which at this point is uncertain as to how it began. Bestiality? homosexuality? No one is sure.

Homosexuality, fornication and adultery are sins - horrible sins that carry their own consequences. AIDS is just the one of the physical risks of not obeying God’s law. The real serious loss is our own souls.

Lets not justify sinful acts or be obfuscated with their consequences.

Fornication, Adultery and homsexuality are indefensible.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[truagape]

The simple, straight forward answer to this question is - No.

Now…is the question being asked correct in its context and its wording? That answer is also - No!

Lets take this by parts. AIDS is not the “punishment of God” - AIDS is the consequence of our own concupiscence, our own desire to do things our way.

Did AIDS come about because of homosexual acts exclusively? No.
Unprotected homosexual/heterosexual acts do nothing to curb the spread of AIDS which at this point is uncertain as to how it began. Bestiality? homosexuality? No one is sure.

Homosexuality, fornication and adultery are sins - horrible sins that carry their own consequences. AIDS is just the one of the physical risks of not obeying God’s law. The real serious loss is our own souls.

Lets not justify sinful acts or be obfuscated with their consequences.

Fornication, Adultery and homsexuality are indefensible.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

I almost agree with you. Almost.

 

[mangy_dog]

I almost agree with you. Almost.

That’s close enough.

I’m like the mule that carried Jesus into His triumphant entry into Jerusalem. What happened to the mule after that? …who knows!

It did its job and that was it.

I am the mangy dog who eats the crumbs that fall from my Master’s table.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[truagape]

That’s close enough.

I’m like the mule that carried Jesus into His triumphant entry into Jerusalem. What happened to the mule after that? …who knows!

It did its job and that was it.

I am the mangy dog who eats the crumbs that fall from my Master’s table.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

**THE DONKEY
G.K. Chesterton

When fishes flew and forests walked
And figs grew upon thorn,
Some moment when the moon was blood
Then surely I was born;

With monstrous head and sickening cry
And ears like errant wings,
The devil’s walking parody
On all four-footed things.

The tattered outlaw of the earth,
Of ancient crooked will;
Starve, scourge, deride me: I am dumb,
I keep my secret still.

Fools! For I also had my hour;
One far fierce hour and sweet:
There was a shout about my ears,
And palms before my feet.
**

 

[Louise71]

Thank you! This is the most reasonable answer I’ve read on this topic. The truth is, noboday can say for sure whether it is a punishment or not. But, if we do what is right by God and follow His commandments, we can have a clean conscience.

 

[Louise71]

Sickness is the result of infection by certian types of germs that enter our body (like strep, a bacterial infection, or HIV, a viral infection), or the result of cells inside our body mutating in ways that cause suffering (such as cancer). Sometimes, sickness is the result of genetic defects that were passed on from parent to child (such as sickle-cell aenemia). Sometimes, sickness is caused by our immune system not responding correctly to certian things - these are called allergies (like, say, an allergic reaction to bee stings). Sickness can also be mental in nature - such as a seratonin defiency that causes depression (the brain has certian chemicals it needs to perform well. If it doesn’t have what it needs, it can cause psychological or behavioral problems). There are a whole bunch of other things that can happen to our body.

But one thing is for certian - sickness can effect anyone. It doesn’t matter if your rich or poor, black or white, Catholic or protestant, Job or Judas - sickness happens to everyone. Certianly, it happens to *some *people more than others. People without sufficient preventive healthcare may be prone to suffer from sickness more than those in countries with lots of preventive healthcare. People who live in hot, humid, close-to-the-equator climates may suffer from malaria more - because the mosquitos there carry it, while the mosquitos here in the US don’t.

There is no reason to think that the pious are effected by sickness any more or less than the non-pious. There is no reason to think that God ever punishes people with sickness - except if you read the Bible and actually believe some of the stories in there.

 

[Louise71]

I find this post very patronising. I think most people know what causes sickness but we don’t know how or why AIDs started so you can’t really say yes or no to whether it is punishment or not.

 

[rossum]

How do you know this?

See: HIV/AIDS among Women Who Have Sex With Women.

link:

A study of more than 1 million female blood donors found no HIV-infected women whose only risk factor was sex with women.

rossum

 

[jmvizanko]

How do you know this?

Basic biology? In order of most likely transmission to least likely you have gay or heterosexual anal sex, heterosexual vaginal sex, and then gay or straight oral sex. This is just a consequence of the fluids and membranes involved.

 

[wcknight]

AIDs initally spread among the heterosexual population in Africa with truckers visiting prostitutes, and bringing it back to their family. It’s wrong to say that any disease is some sort of punishment from God. SInce other folks are equally susceptible to AIDs, it definitely was not a punishment aimed at gay folks.

We live in a world full of germs and contagions, many of which are deadly when encountered under the wrong circumstances. We have free will to put ourselves at risk (or not) throughout our entire lives. To say that God is responsible for punishing us when we do risky things is to remove personal responsibility from our actions.

Plus many diseases are almost completely or seemingly random events. We may have no culpability in encountering them. We just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. I know of no disease that differenciates the good from the bad. Germs and diseases are equal opportunity pathogens.

 

[Dale_M]

This thread is four years old, guys. Many of the participants have moved on to other things. For example, the person who started the thread hasn’t visited CAF since March '09.