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Pug
Guest
I like Amazing Grace. Also, I just love “How Great Thou Art”, but the only place I ever hear that one is on my own lips.
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otm
Guest
Yeah, I agree with you! A good number of them are suspect - I mean, basing a hymn on the Old Testament, or the Psalms, or the Gospels or Epistles - I mean, how dare they?
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otm
Guest
Anima Christi:
Yeah! All that stuff form the Old Testament, and the Psalms and the Gospels and Epistles - how un-Catholic! You’ld think someone actually approved that book!Oh, I should mention that even though I dislike using “Amazing Grace” at Mass, there are other songs that are far worse than “Amazing Grace.” Most of the questionable hymns/folk songs we sing at Mass that seem to go against Catholic teaching were written by “Catholic” composers.
I really wouldn’t mind if we kept Amazing Grace, as long as we got rid of anything that was written after 1962, most of it is AWFUL
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otm
Guest
porthos11 said:
And many Catholic hymns of recent origin, which paraphrase the Psalms and teaxts of the Bible are more Catholic than the drivel that was around prior to Vatican 2.
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otm
Guest
James_2:24:
Oh, the other official liturgy of the Church? The Liturgy of the Hours…
Well, given that it is part of the approved songs attached to the other official liturgy of the Church, and was approved by Rome, perhaps you might not want to be more Catholic than the Cathiolic Church…
Oh, the other official liturgy of the Church? The Liturgy of the Hours…
Tongue in cheek
That’s why I don’t strongly object to “On Eagles’ Wings” because that’s actually based on Psalm 91. I also don’t have a problem with “I Am the Bread of Life” despite its being “spoken” by Christ because it is simply based on the Gospel text of John 6. It’s all about genre.
However, I don’t like the melody of “On Eagles’ Wings.” Side-by side with “Holy God We Praise Thy Name” and “Be Thou My Vision”, it’s really a drag. IMHO, of course. YMMV.
But I still think “Lord of the Dance” is inexcusable.
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Anima_Christi
Guest
I prefer songs at church such as “Jesus my Lord, my God, my all”, “Praise to the Lord” and “Hail Holy Queen enthroned above” (not the Sister Act version though). Anything that has a solemn rhythm, not the profane campfire melodies.
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Nan_S
Guest
Boy, oh boy. Do you think traditional Protestant-origin hymns are bad? You should have come to Mass with me in the 1970s and heard the songs we got at the 11am “family mass.”
Simon and Garfunkle’s Sounds of Silence: “Hello, darkness, my old friend, I’ve come to talk with you again…”
Andrew Lloyd Weber’s Jesus Christ Superstar: “Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, who are you, what have you sacrificed?”
Week after week, strum, strum, strum went the guitars. And the priest smiled so indulgently.
GAAKKKKK! Even as a teenager these heretical lyrics upset me. Give me Amazing Grace anyday, please!!!
Simon and Garfunkle’s Sounds of Silence: “Hello, darkness, my old friend, I’ve come to talk with you again…”
Andrew Lloyd Weber’s Jesus Christ Superstar: “Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, who are you, what have you sacrificed?”
Week after week, strum, strum, strum went the guitars. And the priest smiled so indulgently.
GAAKKKKK! Even as a teenager these heretical lyrics upset me. Give me Amazing Grace anyday, please!!!
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steve_green_2
Guest
Go right ahead Allan and play that song at 4:00pm Sat. at St. Anthony’s, I only attend the TLM there anyways. I am sure there are some Prot. songs that are good. AG is just, IMHO, painful and not very inspiring, and no I do not need latin music 24\7.
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JOHNYJ
Guest
The whinny souless songs we got stuck with after Vatican 2 were awful. Kum by ya, bread of Life, what so ever you do, .Give me a goof old fashioned methodist hymn any day.
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atheos_sum
Guest
Mt19:26:
But it’s a good song and should be sung more often no doubt.
In fact, it was written by a popular Calvinist hymnodist named John Newton who wrote many many hymns. If you read/listen to the lyrics with a scrupulous ear, the Calvinist message becomes clear.
But it’s a good song and should be sung more often no doubt.
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Luvadoxi
Guest
I really wish people wouldn’t be so positively judgmental against Protestants. I was one for 50 years until Christ converted me to his Church through the Eucharist–and yes, I’ve gone through being very angry at having been robbed of this–but I have no one to blame but the original reformers, and sin, and history–I’m a very orthodox, JPII, B16 Catholic, and yet it really annoys me to hear some of these posts. I love “Amazing Grace.” Perhaps it shouldn’t be sung in today’s poorly catechized parishes–the state of things is truly appalling–I can’t believe it, and I’ve been Catholic almost 2 years. I can’t believe how bad things are, really. But I digress. Do you all know the story of “Amazing Grace”? In the 1700s, John Newton, a deserter from the British Navy and slave trader, lived a dissolute life. After an injury aboard ship, he read a copy of Thomas a Kempis’ Imitation of Christ. As his ship almost sank, he had a conversion experience and his soul was flooded with a manifestation of God’s grace. He became a minister and composed over 280 hymns, of which this was his best known. It really is no different from St. Paul’s experience, or that of many other adult converts to Christianity. We do not know why some of us were given the grace to become Catholic, and we shouldn’t condemn those that, for whatever God’s mysterious reasons are not. I really am not at all sure “Amazing Grace” is contrary to Catholic Faith. It brings me to tears.
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Sacramentalist
Guest
The English edition of the Church’s Liturgy of the Hours contains the hymn Amazing Grace. Check out Vespers for the Common of Several Martyrs.
There’s nothing remotely heterodox in the hymn; the hymn uses Christian terms and sentiments that historically have been understood differently by the various sects, but nothing intrinsically heretical.
There’s nothing remotely heterodox in the hymn; the hymn uses Christian terms and sentiments that historically have been understood differently by the various sects, but nothing intrinsically heretical.
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mercygate
Guest
.
Sunday in Church we sang a Catholic song that proclaimed:
"bread that is broken, wine that is poured/Love is the sign of the Lord.
I ASK you. Makes “Amazing Grace” sound like The Baltimore Catechism by comparison. The author, a baptized Christian – and slave trader – had a “Damascus road” conversion experience during a storm at sea and gave the rest of his life to the cause of abolishing slavery . . .
I know many cradle Catholics who have had profound conversion experiences and can point to “the hour I first believed.” Ignatius of Loyola comes to mind.
This is not a phenomenon limited to Fundamentalists. In fact, I would contend that until one comes to grips with one’s faith in a deeply personal way, one is on the near side of spiritual maturity. The recognition may not come as a one-shot flash followed by an altar call, but there must be some realization that Christ is REAL and that one’s entire life has meaning only in HIM.
mercygate, M.Div.
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Brendan
Guest
As a side note here.
You can sing the lyrics to Gilligan’s Island to the tune of “Amazing Grace”, and vice versa of course.
You can sing the lyrics to Gilligan’s Island to the tune of “Amazing Grace”, and vice versa of course.
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Mike_Dye
Guest
Yes it is allowed.
Mike
Mike
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HitF12
Guest
I agree. I think Amazing Grace is a beautiful song, and I also fail to see how it contradicts Catholic teachings.
I also see alot of post-vatican 2 song-bashing happening… I don’t see the problem with them. I personally like a lot of Landry’s and Foley’s stuff (although not all). I like the language in them, not because of their grandeur, but because I understand them. As a post-vatican 2 baby, I grew up with these songs and they bring me comfort. And I remember stuff.
For example, the Foley son “The Cry of the Poor” often cycles thru my head during my day at work…
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Flora_Louise
Guest
For the lyric in question, it’s all about how you interpret the word, “appear.”
According to Merriam Webster, there are several definitions, including:
“How precious did that Grace [come into existance], the hour I first believed.”
But for Catholics saved by Grace at infant Baptism, there’s still going to be an inevitable moment in later childhood/adulthood when we truly embrace, understand, and love the faith. That’s the moment we’re singing about:
“How precious did that Grace [look], the hour I first believed.”
For us, the Grace was there all along. It just appears/looks so precious the moment we truly and fully believe.
According to Merriam Webster, there are several definitions, including:
- to come into existence
- to have an outward aspect; to seem or to look like
“How precious did that Grace [come into existance], the hour I first believed.”
But for Catholics saved by Grace at infant Baptism, there’s still going to be an inevitable moment in later childhood/adulthood when we truly embrace, understand, and love the faith. That’s the moment we’re singing about:
“How precious did that Grace [look], the hour I first believed.”
For us, the Grace was there all along. It just appears/looks so precious the moment we truly and fully believe.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
1 your explanation is quite a leap and requires one to do some mental gymnastics.
2. This thread is over a decade old…
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