Is Amazon a corrupt company?

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True. But they have impacted a lot of local used book stores who did not move aggressively into the internet market.

Personal opinion, based on personal experience.
 
“Corruption” may not be the best words to use, but between their tax evasion and willingness to treat their employees like livestock, I do find many of their practices unethical.
First, I have seen no actual evidence of tax evasion. You may fault them because they have taken advantage of various tax loopholes that were written into law, but that is not Amazon’s fault, nor does it constitute an ethical violation. Take it up with your Congressman, or municipal leaders. It is entirely understandable that in an effort to make a profit, a company would make use of existing tax breaks.

Second, as stated above, every person above that actually worked there said it was a good work environment, no worse than any other company in a similar industry.
 
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I’m happy they pulled out of NYC they deserved it after legalizing murder
 
I don’t consider the acceptance of corporate welfare, especially at the expense of the underserved communities needing the assistance, as ethical. Nor do I approve of corporations not paying their fair share in taxes as the rest of us do. You may see it differently, but I hold corporations to the same high standards that are expected of the middle class. I applaud New York City for agreeing with me. And yes, I’ve taken it up with my elected officials, but thank you for the reminder. 🙂

Second, I’m glad that people posting on CAF have personally had a good experience as Amazon employees. It’s too bad that not everybody agrees. Amazon Warehouse Workers Tell Us Their Horror Stories
 
“Corruption” may not be the best words to use, but between their tax evasion and willingness to treat their employees like livestock, I do find many of their practices unethical.
As far as the taxes, what’s being reported as “evasion” (at least the in the US this week; I don’t know about the European) is bog-standard US tax law. When your business expenses for the year exceed your income, you can deduct that loss from next year’s income (you actually have a fixed number of years for this).

Whether you’re a mom and pop ice cream store who spent $100k the first year but only had $10k in revenue, or an Amazon that lost billions before becoming profitable, the rule is the same. It’s not a “loophole”, its intrinsic to the notion of taxing income.

As for livestock the first thing that came to mind was . . .


🤣

And as for the book stores that went under due to the ability to search nationally with amazon . . . when the core of your business model is restricted access to information, enhanced communication will do you in. This is where most of the travel agents went, and what the real estate agents are going through now.

The travel agents got used to people having to go through them for their computer terminals, and the “multiple listing service” in each area locked out everyone else, and was too expensive to duplicate.

Both are cases of using market/monopoly power to extract profits from consumers.

hawk
 
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Amazon’s tax_avoidance_ (better?) is voluntary, however. (Those us who are pro-life on abortion know darn well not to look to the State as a metric for ethics . . . . )

And man, I love Dilbert!! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:
 
I don’t consider the acceptance of corporate welfare, especially at the expense of the underserved communities needing the assistance, as ethical.
Yes, I too am not a big fan of corporate welfare, but Amazon doesn’t pass legislature. Tax laws are passed by elected officials at the municipal, state, and national levels. If you consider corporate welfare to be unethical, then the people passing the laws offering those benefits are the ones who are engaging in unethical practices.
Nor do I approve of corporations not paying their fair share in taxes as the rest of us do.
Again, Amazon has paid all the taxes that it is obligated to pay under law, and takes advantage of any available tax exemptions that it is afforded by law, just as you do when paying your personal income taxes. So again, the burden of unethical practice would be on our elected legislators.
Second, I’m glad that people posting on CAF have personally had a good experience as Amazon employees. It’s too bad that not everybody agrees. Amazon Warehouse Workers Tell Us Their Horror Stories
That is fine, but again, the vast majority of people working for Amazon like working for the company. So for example, Amazon received a 74% recommendation rate from people who have worked for the company on Glassdoor.com. If a worker doesn’t like working there, they are engaged in a mutual and voluntary relationship, and they are free to quit. I have worked in the logistics and warehouse industry before, so I am very familiar with this industry as well as what are reasonable working conditions for the operational task they perform.

You may not like them or their business model, which is fine, personal preference, right? However, that is very different than making unsubstantiated accusations of corruption or unethical practices.
 
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Amazon’s tax_avoidance_ (better?) is voluntary, however. (Those us who are pro-life on abortion know darn well not to look to the State as a metric for ethics . . . . )

And man, I love Dilbert!! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:
Right, and to my knowledge, Amazon is not an abortion provider, nor have they created legislation to allow for abortion. Blame your legislators for that, and perhaps our courts for very spurious interpretations of the Constitution.
 
Amazon’s tax_avoidance_ (better?) is voluntary, however.
I don’t think it’s even avoidance (again, US).

If they’ve spent $6b, and brought in $4b, they’re still at a loss. Yes, large amounts of money is flowing, but there is still no profit.

If a business has a $1M net profit for the first quarter, and $20m need lost for the last three combined, that’s $19m loss for the year. It’s a longer period, but that’s Amazon’s situation.

Wasn’t last year their first profit ever??? They went for an amazingly long time putting in money for the hope of a later profit. That’s finally happened (actually, I was surprised!), but they’re still a net loss.

There’s no “avoiding” here; this is how you’re supposed to do it, per the tax code.

Now, a “Companies incorporated on August 15, 1996 pay 5% tax” as an exception to the normal 15% rate is a loophole, as are many others (and the tax code has a disturbing number of these).

Similarly, paying ABC corp to do work the government needs done, at market rates is not “corporate welfare”–notwithstanding the fact that ABC makes a profit.

All in all, as an economist, I’d abolish C taxation entirely, and tax everything S-corp style–pass it through to the shareholders.

hawk, the economics doc

p.s. I’ll add the famous quote from judge Learned Hand, one of the giants of American jurisprudence:
Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes.
Gregory v. Helvering , 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934)
 
Yep, as to the books stores. Paradigm shift. Caught the mom and pop stores of many of sorts, similarly.
 
I don’t think it’s even avoidance (again, US).
To clarify, I’m speaking in lay language and not legal terms. Amazon made its presence in NYC conditional on $3B in “government incentives” - including the avoidance municipal taxes - and threatened to pull out Seattle when faced with the prospect of paying taxes to help the homeless. Learned Hand’s opinion notwithstanding, it’s small businesses and middle class families that shoulder the surplus burden
That is fine, but again, the vast majority of people working for Amazon like working for the company.
I’ll surmise that the vast majority don’t work in the warehouse. 🙂
So for example, Amazon received a 74% recommendation rate from people who have worked for the company on Glassdoor.com.
Glassdoor does not provide a reliable or accurate sampling method. It is voluntary without any ability to verify reviewers.

CAF doesn’t, either, by the way. For all that lurkers know, you could be a shill for Amazon, and I could be a disgruntled ex-employee with a bone to pick. Chances are that that neither of us are either one, (I’m certainly not the latter!), but skepticism online is always warranted.

Even on the off-chance that we could face-value trust Glassdoor, would you be happy knowing that a quarter of Amazon employees are enduring the substandard labor conditions described in my link? Is that 74% OK with you even iflaborers in Britain must forego bathroom breaks and pee in soda bottles?

I can’t tell from your profile if you’re Catholic, but most of us heresubscribe to a faith that finds this treatment of workers unacceptable.
You may not like them or their business model, which is fine, personal preference, right? However, that is very different than making unsubstantiated accusations of corruption or unethical practices.
It’s not a “personal preference.” This isn’t chocolate-vs.-vanilla ice cream that we’re discussing. I am claiming that it is unethical to lobby city governments for excessive tax breaks as a condition of locating there.
If you consider corporate welfare to be unethical, then the people passing the laws offering those benefits are the ones who are engaging in unethical practices.
Who do you think lobbied for those policies in the first place? I’ll give you a hint. It isn’t Mother Theresa. Amazon Spends Company Record on U.S. Lobbying in 2018: Filing

Amazon is hardly a passive pawn here.
 
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To clarify, I’m speaking in lay language and not legal terms. Amazon made its presence in NYC conditional on $3B in “government incentives” - including the avoidance municipal taxes
Whether as an economist, civil libertarian, or concerned citizen, I’m opposed to those. So much so, that the federal government should forbid them.

I don’t blame a company who takes them into consideration when comparing costs, though.

The theory is that the municipalities get far more additional taxes than if the entity didn’t come, both directly from the entity, and secondarily from the taxes paid by the workers, and those whom they buy things from, and so forth. In this case, it was supposedly $10b that would flow just from Amazon.

That’s theory. Practice shows that it doesn’t work out as hoped–although I don’t think it’s nearly as bad for corporate plants as sports stadiums, in which I think we’re still waiting for a case of break-even (and one of my pet peeves at the moment is that Nevada is handing two thirds of a billion dollars in tax money to the Davis family to bring their gang of thugs, err, the Raiders, here).

Anyway, study after study have shown that these don’t work.

I had a conversation with our mayor a couple of years ago in which she noted that our inability to offer tax incentives being a problem in luring movie production here. Huh? Sure, we don’t have any incentive, but the taxes are merely something like a $400 shooting permit, and, uhm, well, there’s the sales/use tax on stuff they buy, sure . . . I guess we could impose some kind of movie tax just so that we could waive it for them, but we have no income tax here . . .

hawk
 
There are a lot of people who say its corrupt and people who say its fair. However, I wonder if the people who say its fair just tolerate/ excuse the misconduct of not following laws and regulations. Overall, I don’t see it as so bad compared to other companies.
 
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Amazon IT / office jobs are probably less abusive.
Amazon does have a bit of reputation for overworking even their tech workers. From what I hear, companies like Tesla and Netflix are still worse,* but Amazon’s influence means that the spotlight tends to be on them more.

* Note that this is excluding the video game industry, which as a whole has a really bad reputation for overworking employees.
I do boycott Amazon
I don’t boycott Amazon. I just never got sucked in to begin with. I’ve always found it a bit weird how people talk like they depend on Amazon now, because for me they seem more like a last resort when I can no longer find something in a store (happens from time to time). I’m actually a bit more interested in AWS than their retail.
Glassdoor does not provide a reliable or accurate sampling method. It is voluntary without any ability to verify reviewers.
It’s also worth noting that, from what I’ve heard, Amazon has some really good compensation, perks, and vertical movement. People will tolerate a lot if you give them those, but it doesn’t make Amazon a great place to work. It’s just a great place to reach financial and career goals, even if you’re stressed out a lot.
 
Oh yes, I’m all too familiar with the rationale. I live in a city dominated by a major corporation that negotiated its perks with the promise of “providing jobs.” It didn’t mention that its lay-offs would come often and in enormous quantities.

What I was mostly trying to detail for our forum cohort is that these tax breaks, loopholes, and other incentives weren’t something that Bezos shockingly discovered one day while - oh, say - taking a nature walk. “Hey! Tax incentives! Didn’t see those coming . . . Sure, I’ll help myself!” Corporations like his lobby actively, (and legally bribe), for them.
 
There are a lot of people who say its corrupt and people who say its fair. However, I wonder if the people who say its fair just tolerate/ excuse the misconduct of not following laws and regulations. Overall, I don’t see it as so bad compared to other companies.
Again, do you have any evidence of corruption or misconduct, or are you simply making unsubstantiated speculation based on the fact that you don’t like Amazon? If you don’t like Amazon that is fine, but if all you are doing is offering unsubstantiated gossip, then consider yourself guilty of breaking the 8th Commandment.
 
It doesn’t break the 8th commandment if there is a lot of witnesses and stories that attest their corruption that I heard which is evidence.

Also I found out recently that they are finding loopholes to the system like evading taxes.

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Fortune

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Amazon Will Pay a Whopping $0 in Federal Taxes on $11.2 Billion Profits​

This is the second year in a row the trillion dollar company won’t pay

I’m just trying to confirm if its true.
 
It doesn’t break the 8th commandment if there is a lot of witnesses and stories that attest their corruption that I heard which is evidence.
Yes, we call that gossip when there is no evidence of actual wrongdoing which you yourself already admitted you do not have.
Also I found out recently that they are finding loopholes to the system like evading taxes.
Taking advantage of a tax loophole that was legislated into existence by due process of law does not constitute tax evasion. Tax evasion involves the intentional misreporting of assets and earnings in order to deceive the authorities. And again, to date, there have been no cases of tax evasion against Amazon. If you have a court ruling that demonstrates otherwise, feel free to post it.
 
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