Is an Evangelical Marriage valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church?

[Reynardus]

Hi.

I’m sorry to say that my sister has converted to a Born-Again Evangelical Church. She will be married in September. It’s a long sad story but suffice to say, she is converting to placate her fiance. (And she doesn’t want to talk to me or listen to any arguments in favor of the CC.)

She has no intention of marrying in the CC. My question is…will the marriage be valid in the eyes of the Church? And am I allowed to attend?

 

[Holly3278]

Hi.

I’m sorry to say that my sister has converted to a Born-Again Evangelical Church. She will be married in September. It’s a long sad story but suffice to say, she is converting to placate her fiance. (And she doesn’t want to talk to me or listen to any arguments in favor of the CC.)

She has no intention of marrying in the CC. My question is…will the marriage be valid in the eyes of the Church? And am I allowed to attend?

I don’t know the answers to your questions but I do have an opinion on your last question. I personally would not attend. Your sister has chosen to leave the Catholic Church and you should not support her in this endeavor by going to her wedding.

 

[SpaceNeedle]

It is not valid, unless she received special dispensation.

If it were my sister, I would go, but not participate in any role outside of spectator/guest. I don’t know if there are hard and fast rules, but respondents after me will likely have a more accurate thought on that

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Reynardus:

And am I allowed to attend?

I agree with Holly. When my aunt was married outside of the Catholic Church, my parents did not attend the wedding. There was a huge argument and then rift that formed between my mom and her sister (because my aunt refused to understand), but my mother does not look back with regret. She knew she was called to stand firm in her beliefs as a Catholic…and not going proved that.

 

[Thomas63116]

The Catholic Church requires Catholics to marry according to the requirements set out in church law. The Church does not attempt to regulate how/where non-Catholics marry. Once a person is Catholic, the Church considers them bound by church law unless they “formally defect” from the faith. I’m not clear on what exactly that means. Some people have suggested that simply joining another church is sufficient, others have suggested that you have to write a letter to your bishop or priest telling them you are not Catholic any more.

So if your sister has “formally defected” from the Catholic Church (whatever that may mean, precisely), then the Church would not consider her marriage outside the Church to be an impediment to its validity, but if she has not “formally defected” then it would be an impediment.

Rather than get caught up in the canon law definitions, I think the bigger picture to keep in mind is this: “What course of action is most likely to help bring my sister back to the faith?”

You have expressed your disappointment and disapproval to her of her decision to leave the Catholic Church. She doesn’t want to listen. She’s a grown-up who is allowed to make her own decisions. If you skip her wedding, will she understand that you are simply standing up for what you think is right and admire your steadfastness in your beliefs? Or will she percieve it as a judgemental slight that confirms her worst stereotypes about the Catholic Church and makes her less open to the the truth of the Church? If you go, will she think you now approve of her decisions? Or will she be glad that you love her and want to be there for her, even when you disagree with her?

You are in a much better position than any of us to judge the most prudent course of action in this situation.

 

[1ke]

She has no intention of marrying in the CC. My question is…will the marriage be valid in the eyes of the Church?

No. It will not be valid.

It could be valid if your sister made a formal act of defection from the Catholic Church. There are specific steps that must be taken to do this. It involves written notice to the bishop and the bishop’s acceptance of the defection. This would then release your sister from the requirement to be married in the Catholic form. She would still be a Catholic, formal defection only impacts the marriage law requirements.

It is almost certain your sister has not done this, since most people don’t even know about the process, and of course someone who has rejected the Church probably doesn’t acknowledge its authority over her.

And am I allowed to attend?

You should consult your priest.

 

[1ke]

Some people have suggested that simply joining another church is sufficient, others have suggested that you have to write a letter to your bishop or priest telling them you are not Catholic any more.

The Church does have specific guidelines on what constitutes formal defection as it pertains to the canons on marriage. It requires much more than simply joining another church.

Click here for the details.

 

[Debra_C]

Hi.

I’m sorry to say that my sister has converted to a Born-Again Evangelical Church. She will be married in September. It’s a long sad story but suffice to say, she is converting to placate her fiance. (And she doesn’t want to talk to me or listen to any arguments in favor of the CC.)

She has no intention of marrying in the CC. My question is…will the marriage be valid in the eyes of the Church? And am I allowed to attend?

I don’t know. I think it may depend on whether she has made a formal renouncement of her Catholic faith? Ordinarily, if she is batized Catholic, but marries outside the Church without a dispensation, then the marriage is not valid. If two Protestant were getting married in a Protestant church, that is a valid wedding…

Whehter you should go is another question all together. Your sister is getting married. She no longer considers herself Catholic, but is she? I don’t know what I’d do in that situation. Not attending may be so damaging to the relationship that any hope of her returning to the Catholic faith is lost, but attending might be seen as condoning a sacriledge.

 

[Just_Lurking]

She would still be a Catholic, formal defection only impacts the marriage law requirements.

She would still be a Catholic, but specifically she would be a Catholic who has been automatically excommunicated because of her formal defection.

 

[1ke]

She would still be a Catholic, but specifically she would be a Catholic who has been automatically excommunicated because of her formal defection.

My point was that some people think formal defection, or even defection by joining a non-Catholic denomination, makes one “not Catholic.” Once baptized, one can never be “not Cahtolic.”

 

[Reynardus]

Thank you for all of your replies.

Fortunately, I don’t have any formal role to do at the wedding so I can just act as a spectator/guest like what spaceneedle said.

She already knows I don’t approve of her conversion so I doubt she’ll consider it as acceptance.

In any case, I will also ask a priest at my next confession for his advice on this matter.

 

[Thomas63116]

The Church does have specific guidelines on what constitutes formal defection as it pertains to the canons on marriage. It requires much more than simply joining another church.

Click here for the details.

Thank you for the informative link.

 

[Thomas63116]

You should consult your priest.

I have seen this reply probably dozens of times when people come to these boards asking for advice on questions that really boil down to a prudential judgment (and I see it from a lot of people, so I’m not just picking on your reply 1ke).

I certainly don’t have a problem with someone consulting a priest whom they trust on a particular question that is troubling them. But I’m not sure I understand why we should expect that a priest will automatically give better advice than a layperson who is familiar with the situation, or would have greater insight than what the person asking the question would be able to attain on their own through study and prayer. Is it somehow wrong of me to feel that way?

I also don’t think it is unusual for two different priests to give two very different sets of advice when people are facing very similar dillemas. Is one right and one wrong? How do I know? If you ask one and I ask the other, are you obligated to do what your priest tells you and am I obligated to do what my priest tells me? Or are they simply giving advice which I each of us is free to follow or disregard? How is that different from advice I may seek on this board or from any other source? If all we are going to do is tell people to consult their priest, why do we ever bother reading and replying here?

Finally, in my own experience, most priests are pretty busy and sometimes have trouble keeping up with their obligations in the parish for the things that really and truly only they can handle (wedding and baptism preparations, managing the parish and school, hearing confessions, saying Mass, etc.) I certainly think that the priests I know would be happy to listen and offer insight. But I have to say that if I were a priest, I would probably get tired if people expected me to provide a definitive answer on questions like this, especially if they came as often as the replies on this board suggest they should.

Perhaps this simply means that I should never be a priest. Or maybe it means that I have some misunderstanding of what a priest’s role should be. At any rate, I find the repetition of this refrain somewhat confusing and troubling, and I wanted to post my reaction. I would appreciate any further insight others may offer on this topic. Thanks.

 

[thunderballs75]

Not to mention that there are many priests who do not want to teach the orthodox Faith.

 

[1ke]

But I’m not sure I understand why we should expect that a priest will automatically give better advice than a layperson who is familiar with the situation, or would have greater insight than what the person asking the question would be able to attain on their own through study and prayer. Is it somehow wrong of me to feel that way?

No, it’s not wrong of you to feel that way.

Typically when I (and I can only speak for myself) recommend someone consult a priest, it is on personal matters where a priest who knows the person, and possibly the family, would be more likely to give advice that is specific to their situation.

This is an area where prudential judgment is needed, there is no “black and white” answer. No “yes” or “no” here. There are good reasons to attend and good reasons not to attend. There are many things to consider. Having someone to actually talk it over with is better, in my opinion, than a bunch of people on an anonymous message board who don’t know the family dynamics and who you can’t actually talk it over with.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi.

I’m sorry to say that my sister has converted to a Born-Again Evangelical Church. She will be married in September. It’s a long sad story but suffice to say, she is converting to placate her fiance. (And she doesn’t want to talk to me or listen to any arguments in favor of the CC.)

She has no intention of marrying in the CC. My question is…will the marriage be valid in the eyes of the Church? And am I allowed to attend?

if she has formally defected from the Catholic Church she is no longer bound by Catholic laws on marriage. Should she subsequently request to be reconciled with the Catholic Church she would at that point have to address anything that might make her current marriage invalid. Whether or not she has in fact formally defected is up to her and her Catholic pastor, but it is not all that easy (search dozens of past threads on that topic). Does not sound like you can be of any help to her at this time, but stand by, she may need you in the future. The best book that has helped me through similar minefields with family is Search and Rescue by Patrick Madrid.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi.

I’m sorry to say that my sister has converted to a Born-Again Evangelical Church. She will be married in September. It’s a long sad story but suffice to say, she is converting to placate her fiance. (And she doesn’t want to talk to me or listen to any arguments in favor of the CC.)

She has no intention of marrying in the CC. My question is…will the marriage be valid in the eyes of the Church? And am I allowed to attend?

It would be valid if she has formally left the Catholic Church by presenting her pastor and her Bishop the necessary letter of intent.

Otherwise no it would not be valid, I would consider not attending.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

It is not valid, unless she received special dispensation.

If it were my sister, I would go, but not participate in any role outside of spectator/guest. I don’t know if there are hard and fast rules, but respondents after me will likely have a more accurate thought on that

No Bishop in his right mind would grant this knowing the person intends to leave the paractice of the faith. The Bishop usually needs to be assured that there is no danger of this.

 

[Reynardus]

Something occurred to me.

If she decides to return to the Catholic Church, does that mean she has to remarry her partner in a Catholic Church to be truly married?

And if she decides to leave the guy and return to the Catholic Church, does that mean since she was never married at all (according to the Catholic Church, but not according to the law), she could re-marry someone else and get Church approval? (That’s after going to confession)

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Something occurred to me.

If she decides to return to the Catholic Church, does that mean she has to remarry her partner in a Catholic Church to be truly married?

And if she decides to leave the guy and return to the Catholic Church, does that mean since she was never married at all (according to the Catholic Church, but not according to the law), she could re-marry someone else and get Church approval? (That’s after going to confession)

Yes
Yes (After an annulment process)