Is Annulment necessary?

[alex_convert]

My 38 year old daughter has been disabled by mental illness for over 20 years. She is severly bipolar with psychotic tendencies plus a variety of lesser tendencies. Although she is under a doctors care and on a variety of medications, she still often makes poor decisions. Several years ago, she met a man at the grocery store and eloped within a few days. He was addicted to drugs, involved in porn of underage girls, did not work and was unable to take care of his new wife. She became pregnant and moved back home with me (by this he was in jail due to drugs). She filed for and was granted a civil annulment. They were married in a civil ceremony, and he was not Catholic. This was his 3rd or 4th marriage. Our local parish priest was aware of the situation, and has been supportive of my daughter throughout her illness. He never mentioned the need for a Church annulment. We have now moved to a new city, and my daughter went to confession. I don’t think that this priest understands the severity of her mental illness, and told her that she should work on her marriage or file for a church annulment. Is this correct?

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Sincerely, Alex Convert

 

[agangbern]

Obviously, there is no need to annul again what has already been annulled…

 

[Mike_Dye]

My 38 year old daughter has been disabled by mental illness for over 20 years. She is severly bipolar with psychotic tendencies plus a variety of lesser tendencies. Although she is under a doctors care and on a variety of medications, she still often makes poor decisions. Several years ago, she met a man at the grocery store and eloped within a few days. He was addicted to drugs, involved in porn of underage girls, did not work and was unable to take care of his new wife. She became pregnant and moved back home with me (by this he was in jail due to drugs). She filed for and was granted a civil annulment. They were married in a civil ceremony, and he was not Catholic. This was his 3rd or 4th marriage. Our local parish priest was aware of the situation, and has been supportive of my daughter throughout her illness. He never mentioned the need for a Church annulment. We have now moved to a new city, and my daughter went to confession. I don’t think that this priest understands the severity of her mental illness, and told her that she should work on her marriage or file for a church annulment. Is this correct?

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Sincerely, Alex Convert

My Guess is that if you inquired with the local Tribunal you will find that a true marriage never existed.
If you needed to get a Church annulment I couldn’t imagine a case more worthy of one than yours if all of the facts are correct.

 

[Seatuck]

My 38 year old daughter has been disabled by mental illness for over 20 years. She is severly bipolar with psychotic tendencies plus a variety of lesser tendencies. Although she is under a doctors care and on a variety of medications, she still often makes poor decisions. Several years ago, she met a man at the grocery store and eloped within a few days. He was addicted to drugs, involved in porn of underage girls, did not work and was unable to take care of his new wife. She became pregnant and moved back home with me (by this he was in jail due to drugs). She filed for and was granted a civil annulment. They were married in a civil ceremony, and he was not Catholic. This was his 3rd or 4th marriage. Our local parish priest was aware of the situation, and has been supportive of my daughter throughout her illness. He never mentioned the need for a Church annulment. We have now moved to a new city, and my daughter went to confession. I don’t think that this priest understands the severity of her mental illness, and told her that she should work on her marriage or file for a church annulment. Is this correct?

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Sincerely, Alex Convert

The marriage is invalid but there is paperwork to be done. This is what they call a documentary case. She should bring the marriage certificate and civil annulment as well as a recent baptismal certificate in so that the priest can take care of it.Most of the time people let this go until they want to attempt marriage in the Catholic church but there is not reason not to completely close this chapter in your daughter’s life now.

 

[1ke]

As Seatuck said, this is a documentary case.

She does need to take care of this. She can bring her documentation to the priest and he can file the paperwork.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Has she remarried, or does she expect to or desire to marry? If not, I do not know why annulment would be “necessary”? (But I Am Not A Canon Lawyer)

But if she does fall into one of those categories, as others have said, I expect the declaration would be easily resolved.

:twocents:
tee

 

[JG77]

A marriage took place. This means that despite circumstances, a bond was created between your daughter and this man.

A civil decree of divorce does not terminate the bond that was created - sorry but that is how it is. Since she divorced him civilly she should now approach the Church and seek an annulment. An annulment is the Church recognizing that there was an invalid marriage that took place. An invalid marriage is really one that, even though it took place, did not form a real bond because of certain circumstances or dispositions of the ones being married. From what you said in your post there is more than enough grounds for nullity in her case. I’ve highlighted them.

My 38 year old daughter has been disabled by mental illness for over 20 years. She is severly bipolar with psychotic tendencies plus a variety of lesser tendencies. Although she is under a doctors care and on a variety of medications, she still often makes poor decisions. Several years ago, she met a man at the grocery store and eloped within a few days. ** He was addicted to drugs**, involved in porn of underage girls, did not work and was unable to take care of his new wife. She became pregnant and moved back home with me (by this he was in jail due to drugs). She filed for and was granted a civil annulment. They were married in a civil ceremony, and he was not Catholic. ** This was his 3rd or 4th marriage**. Our local parish priest was aware of the situation, and has been supportive of my daughter throughout her illness. He never mentioned the need for a Church annulment. We have now moved to a new city, and my daughter went to confession. I don’t think that this priest understands the severity of her mental illness, and told her that she should work on her marriage or file for a church annulment. Is this correct?

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Sincerely, Alex Convert

She has divorced civilly so there is no need for her work on her marriage, especially with it having the type of ending that it did. She does need to get an annulment. It is a process that acknowledges that she attempted marriage but for various reasons it was invalid. It not only acknowledges this but then makes it possible for her to be married in the Church if she ever decides to marry again. The reason for that is - if she never has the first marriage of hers annulled by the Church there is no way that she could marry in it if she decides to marry again - since the first bond, in not being nullified, would still exist. It goes back to the basics; that marriage is only between one man and one woman and so other bonds (even if not good) have to be taken care of (getting officially nullified) before a new can have the chance of being formed.

I hope that makes some sense. An annulment should be very easy for her to get - trust me.

 

[chevalier]

The priest was theoretically right on one thing: either the marriage is valid and you work on it, or the marriage is invalid and you file the nullity charge.

I would like to clarify that civil divorce per se doesn’t mean that one doesn’t need to work on marriage, in the sense that a civil divorce alone does not remove the obligation of spouses to live together and run a common household. It is canonical separation which achieves the removal of that obligation. A civil divorce is not canonical separation because neither the spouses themselves nor the civil judge have the power to order canonical separation. The spouses have this power only in such cases when there is danger in delay before bringing the case with proper authority in the Church, and in the case of adultery. In case of danger, separation must cease once the cause has ceased (unless the proper Church authority has said otherwise, e.g. by making the separation permanent). In case of adultery, the innocent spouse has the right to make the separation permanent (although canon law imposes the obligation to bring the case with proper Church authority within 6 months), which would mean working on the marriage wouldn’t be necessary.

As for a marriage which is obviously null, such a marriage still requires a documentary process as has been said. This kind of marriage does not require working on. Imagine that it turns out your husband is a priest, your wife has a husband, or your wife is your long-lost sister. You don’t work on that marriage. You don’t have marital duties or rights if it is obvious that your marriage is null. If a marriage is obviously null, the presumption of validity can’t replace reality. For example, if you’ve just received DNA tests proving your wife is your sister or a document proving your husband is a priest, you don’t owe any marital duties - even before the nullity ruling is issued. What is more, engaging in marital relations would be wrong in such circumstances.

I would suggest getting the decree. Keeping one’s legal situation in order is important.

Besides, one more factor: If your daughter wasn’t Catholic at the time, it complicates things. This is because civil marriage between two baptised non-Catholics is considered valid and sacramental, unlike for Catholics, who need to observe the proper form. Full process could be required in such a case.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . .
Besides, one more factor: If your daughter wasn’t Catholic at the time, it complicates things. This is because civil marriage between two baptised non-Catholics is considered valid and sacramental, unlike for Catholics, who need to observe the proper form. Full process could be required in such a case.

I think it was stated that the husband had previous marriages. One of them was presumably valid. that would make the present marriage invalid. I think the term is Ligumen [but I wouldn’t bet much on that spelling].

 

[chevalier]

I think it was stated that the husband had previous marriages. One of them was presumably valid. that would make the present marriage invalid. I think the term is Ligumen [but I wouldn’t bet much on that spelling].

He was not Catholic, which means that he was not obliged to follow any nullity proceedings. Therefore his fifth marriage could be valid if the four previous ones had been invalid.

Imagine Joe Protestant marries 1) a woman who never wants to have any children, 2) a woman who never intends to be faithful to him, 3) a woman with several severe issues, 4) a Catholic in a JP wedding, 5) an eligible baptised non-Catholic Christian.

In this case, his fifth marriage is valid. Only subsequent marriages will be invalid (bigamous).

 

[agapewolf]

Why in the world is everyone going the annulment route?

She is Catholic, and married outside of form. Simple.

AND…if she won’t try to get married “again”…it can just stand as it is, (although I would think for peace of mind one would want to get it).

It doesn’t sound as if she would be of sound mind to enter into a valid marriage anyway.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

My 38 year old daughter has been disabled by mental illness for over 20 years. She is severly bipolar with psychotic tendencies plus a variety of lesser tendencies. Although she is under a doctors care and on a variety of medications, she still often makes poor decisions. Several years ago, she met a man at the grocery store and eloped within a few days. He was addicted to drugs, involved in porn of underage girls, did not work and was unable to take care of his new wife. She became pregnant and moved back home with me (by this he was in jail due to drugs). She filed for and was granted a civil annulment. They were married in a civil ceremony, and he was not Catholic. This was his 3rd or 4th marriage. Our local parish priest was aware of the situation, and has been supportive of my daughter throughout her illness. He never mentioned the need for a Church annulment. We have now moved to a new city, and my daughter went to confession. I don’t think that this priest understands the severity of her mental illness, and told her that she should work on her marriage or file for a church annulment. Is this correct?

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Sincerely, Alex Convert

She does need to have the Marriage declared Null by the Church. She should contact the previous pastor who knows her and her background.

 

[alex_convert]

Thank you for your answer, Unfortunately, our family priest has retired due to poor health and has moved from the area. I am sure the priest in our new parish will be helpful once we have discussed the entire situation with him.

 

[lizaanne]

Why in the world is everyone going the annulment route?

She is Catholic, and married outside of form. Simple.

AND…if she won’t try to get married “again”…it can just stand as it is, (although I would think for peace of mind one would want to get it).

It doesn’t sound as if she would be of sound mind to enter into a valid marriage anyway.

Because it is MUCH easier to go through the process as soon as possible as opposed to waiting till she may meet a man, perhaps even 20 years from now, and wish to be married and then have to piece this all together. To say now that she may not be in a sound mind at a later date is an assumption I personally would not want to make. You don’t know what this woman’s future may hold.

She MUST go to the Tribunal with this (to receive declaration of nullity), even if it is a simple case.

~Liza

 

[agapewolf]

Because it is MUCH easier to go through the process as soon as possible as opposed to waiting till she may meet a man, perhaps even 20 years from now, and wish to be married and then have to piece this all together. To say now that she may not be in a sound mind at a later date is an assumption I personally would not want to make. You don’t know what this woman’s future may hold.

She MUST go to the Tribunal with this (to receive declaration of nullity), even if it is a simple case.

~Liza

and I agree with you, but all of the facts must be stated clearly here, whether its easier one way or the other, is also not our assumption to make.
It was not presented in the OP that this person wants to get married again. So does she really need the defect of form? No, she doesn’t. Would it be prudent? Probably. That part was already presented. I’m just trying to give the rest of the story. Let’s be precise with the language.

And no, she doesn’t HAVE to go to the tribunal. She doesn’t HAVE to do anything. She is not in an irregular marriage.

Also, and I could be mistaken, defect of form does not go to the tribunal, and it is also not called declaration of nullity. Just trying to be precise with the language.

 

[EasterJoy]

Because it is MUCH easier to go through the process as soon as possible as opposed to waiting till she may meet a man, perhaps even 20 years from now, and wish to be married and then have to piece this all together. To say now that she may not be in a sound mind at a later date is an assumption I personally would not want to make. You don’t know what this woman’s future may hold.

She MUST go to the Tribunal with this (to receive declaration of nullity), even if it is a simple case.

~Liza

She has a serious mental illness, but she is only 38. Someday, her illness may be entirely treatable, and at that point she might want to marry. Even if she did not, in the process of resolving the matter with herself down the road she might find comfort in having had the matter fully resolved with the Church.

Whether it is a simple matter of lack of form or something more complicated, it is usually much easier to obtain a declaration of nullity sooner, rather than later.

 

[agapewolf]

I don’t think I articulated effectively.

YES, I completely agree that getting the marriage issue ironed out now is the wisest and most prudent thing to do. As I said earlier, for peace of Mind, that would be the best.

However, there are a few things brought up here that were not addressed and that is simply what I was trying to do. From the sounds of the OP, it seems like a possibility that this woman might not cope very well right now with having to do something strenuous like a full annulment investigation (which we know she probably woulndt’ have to do, but you are all bringing it up as if she does). It might not be wise in her state of mind to do this thing right now? Who knows?

I was just simply stating that it doesn’t HAVE to be done right now.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Thank you for your answer, Unfortunately, our family priest has retired due to poor health and has moved from the area. I am sure the priest in our new parish will be helpful once we have discussed the entire situation with him.

Yes, of course your current pastor can also submit the case and if necessary may even be able to speak with the former pastor.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Also, and I could be mistaken, defect of form does not go to the tribunal, and it is also not called declaration of nullity. Just trying to be precise with the language.

I commend you on your desire to be precise. Just FYI, here is my understanding of the correct language:

Lack of form = complete absence of require form.

Defect of form = the required form was not fully followed, e.g., the priest did not have the authority to perform the marriage.

Defect of form cases always have to go to the tribunal. In many dioceses, lack of form cases do not have to go to the tribunal when a subsequent wedding is being planned, but it is also possible to submit a lack of form case to the tribunal, in which case a declaration of nullity will result.

 

[Phemie]

and I agree with you, but all of the facts must be stated clearly here, whether its easier one way or the other, is also not our assumption to make.
It was not presented in the OP that this person wants to get married again. So does she really need the defect of form? No, she doesn’t. Would it be prudent? Probably. That part was already presented. I’m just trying to give the rest of the story. Let’s be precise with the language.

And no, she doesn’t HAVE to go to the tribunal. She doesn’t HAVE to do anything. She is not in an irregular marriage.

Also, and I could be mistaken, defect of form does not go to the tribunal, and it is also not called declaration of nullity. Just trying to be precise with the language.

As I understand it most bishops submit lack of form cases to the Tribunal. Our bishop doesn’t. We start with the fact that when a Catholic marries outside the Church the marriage doesn’t enjoy the presumption of validity. You don’t need a decree of nullity for something which was never presumed valid in the first place.