Is Answering To Pro Abortion/choice Poster Taking You Away From What You Need To Do About The Issue Of Abortion

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elts1956

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Hi all. I have decided all the twiddle twadlle of the muddle headed pro choicers/abortionists is taking me away from time well spent getting the word out to others who may be better influenced and willing to help spread our values.

Go to Frank Pavone National Director Priests for Life at www.priestsforlife.org to download a copy of WHAT TO DO BEFORE THE END OF ELECTION DAY.

Good luck and God bless to all you pro-lifers. 👍
 
So, I’m guessing that . . . posting a reply to this is a waste of time?

Or is it that pro-choice posters are not entitled to God’s blessings?

What’s the point of this post? Is it a directive? What?

marietta
 
So, I’m guessing that . . . posting a reply to this is a waste of time?

Or is it that pro-choice posters are not entitled to God’s blessings?

What’s the point of this post? Is it a directive? What?

marietta
Click on the link 😉
 
I took the point to be that if somebody can’t understand that killing a baby is one of the most evil injustices in existence, then our time might be better spent talking to somebody else.
 
I took the point to be that if somebody can’t understand that killing a baby is one of the most evil injustices in existence, then our time might be better spent talking to somebody else.
And DOING something else about the vote. 👍
 
That ignorant, fluff-ball, no-experienced empty power suit Sarah Palin doesn’t scare anyone?

marietta
 
That ignorant, fluff-ball, no-experienced empty power suit Sarah Palin doesn’t scare anyone?

marietta
Obama scares me more, and he is someone with *less *experience than Palin. At least Palin recognizes that killing innocent children is wrong. That’s a step in the right direction.

How many states have you been governor of, marietta?
 
Go Sarah Palin. If being the governor of a state and pro-life makes her an “no-experienced fluff-ball”, then I sure hope that “no-experienced fluff-ball” is a compliment.:whistle:
 
DON’T elect that would-be baby killer Obama.😉
It has been said before, and will be said again:
You are not voting for the Pope, or the next Messiah.
USA is not, and G_d help us, never shall be a Christian Caliphate.
Of the people
By the people
For the people
Or something very much like that, I believe.

As for when life begins: We do not know.
Best estimates are a few million years after the Earth became cool enough to support liquid water.
But that is not the context you are trying to define, even if that is what your words mean.

The fusion of a spermatazoan and an oocite is not the beginning of life.
It is the beginning of the possibility of a new individual, or several.
Yes, it is certainly the beginning of a new form of, (in our context, here), humanity.
You might call it a human being, for it is definitely human, and definitely a being, ie alive.
However, by that definition, both spermatazoa, and oocites are also human beings.

If you want to define absolutes, then your language needs to be absolute.
Mother Church says, and this is true, that the beginning of every new human life is conception.
That is, the cause of A is B.
That does not mean that for every B there will be an A, or that one B causes one A.
There is much between B and A.
Actually one might say, more accurately:
B:=> n x A, where n is any whole number from zero to, possibly more than four.

So conception does not initiate an individual, for the zygote is free to fission ito identical siblings.

Mother Church has agonized much over when the new individual receives its imortal soul, and left the verdict open.

His Holiness, JP23, in his epistle favoured conception, buit that was just his opinion. You might agree, or disagree.

This is all angels dancing on the head of a pin.
It is undefined, and undefinable.

No-one has yet come up with a better guess than the quickening, or about week 16.

Scientifically, this is feasible, for it represents the infant beginning to run on internal systems, ie, it is the beginning of its independence.
It is certainly a major improvement on birth.

So logically, when, and under what circumstances might a pregnancy be terminated?
1/ When there is a real and present mortal danger to the mother, and thereby to the pregnancy. For the pregnancy cannot be saved, and the mother will also be lost.
2/ Where the pregnancy will not produce a viable delivery, ie, the foetus is ancephalic.
3/ Getting into grey areas: where the pregnancy will result in a hopelessly disabled birth.
Honest judgements would, to varying degrees, support the above.
Below this line, ther are no simple judgements.
Inconvenience, non mortal danger, non-hopeless disability.
Let the objector pay.
If the mother is incapable of raising a severely disabled infant, then thoe who insist that the pregnancy must come to term, are responsible for the upkeep, and development of that disabled child.
In nature, a disabled infant would rapidly come to a sticky end, and so be removed from the genetic pool. Euthanasia is surely preferable to a sticky end.

Pre-quickening termination is a suitable means of euthanasing non viable pregnancies, and involves no suffering to the foetus, as there is then no operable nervous system.

Yes, in the Kingdom of G-d, where non of these bad things happen, let there be no abortions.
But Our Lord also said that in the Kingdom, there would be no marrying, or giving in marriage, no birth, and no death, for we will all be as the angels.

But for now, we have this precious planet to care for, and we must follow the rule imposed upon us by the limited resources of this blessed blue sphere

Don’t get me wrong,
Abortion is not an acceptable means of birth control.
There is only one acceptable means of birth control.

ps.
My view is that once the infant has quickened, it is a baby waiting to be born, and, every effort should be made to ensure a viable live birth, once this moment has passed.
That means that if a termination is then required for urgent reasons, for the welfare of the mother, it must be put off as long as is physically possible, so that the premature nbirth has the best possible chance of survival.
Partial birth termination is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.
 
That is nonsense. Every human has the right to life. You yourself admit that the tiniest zygote is human in every sense of the word. The only difference between a foetus and a newborn is size and maturity. The Church teaches that the soul is joined to the body at the moment of conception. That is not anyone’s opinion, that is official Church teaching. The Curch does not allow a direct abortion in any of those cases you mentioned. None. Pehaps you should do your homework. And if you’re trying to confuse me with that technical language, you don’t. It proves nothing. You’re talking to a nerd here. That "limited resource statement is badly misinformed, and God forbid that we value our planet’s perceived welfare more than human life. Yes- human life that Our Lord died for.
 
You might call it a human being, for it is definitely human, and definitely a being, ie alive.
However, by that definition, both spermatazoa, and oocites are also human beings.
Wrong! The sperm and egg are merely cells of the parent, once they fuse, they have their own DNA pattern, and are human.
:
POVERTY OF THE BODY, OR POVERTY OF THE SPIRIT. YOU CHOOSE
What I really like about this year, is that I don’t have to have either. Mccain 08!
and we must follow the rule imposed upon us by the limited resources of this blessed blue sphere
I don’t see you voulenteering to stop using resources. Funny how people say the human population must be reduced for the earth’s sake, but never voulenteer themselves.
 
No-one has yet come up with a better guess than the quickening, or about week 16
Let’s drag science in to this: According to this here biology textbook, life begins at conception. You should be able to find one of these at your local library. Here’s another arguement, copied and pasted from where I posted it in another thread: So, when does a cell quit being just someone’s cell, and start being a baby? Conception, of course! Why? Because prior to that, the cell had your DNA. Now, the cell has it’s own DNA, different from everyone else on the entire planet. The cell is now, scientifically, it’s own person.

Some people will say it’s not okay to abort once it’s in the second or third trimester, but all the baby does between conception and then is grow, it’s already living!(I even borrowed a few textbooks from a library, and the unborn baby is alive, by definition.)
Others will say until it’s born it’s okay to abort(planned parenthood, for instance), but again, what changes? What if it’s head is almost out, but not quite, can you abort it then? What if all that’s left are it’s feet? Once again, their position can be supported using neither science not scripture.
Partial birth termination is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.
Now this I agree with.
 
That is nonsense. Every human has the right to life. You yourself admit that the tiniest zygote is human in every sense of the word. The only difference between a foetus and a newborn is size and maturity. The Church teaches that the soul is joined to the body at the moment of conception.
NO, that is FALSE. Mother Church has not given a definitive judgement on this.
His Holiness, JP23 gave his judgement, but that was advisory, and not binding teaching.
That is not anyone’s opinion, that is official Church teaching. The Church does not allow a direct abortion in any of those cases you mentioned.
Please learn to read what is written. I never said that this was the Church’s judgement, but rather, it was the judgement of reasonable people.
None. Perhaps you should do your homework.
As for homework, you beware whom you call.
I have researched this well, and read much, including humanitas vitae, and the catechism.
Should a surgeon, on the operating table, uincur an emergency, which requires that to save the life of the mother, he needs, in his judgement, to take action which will effectively terminate a pregnancy, then, provided that the termination is not the primary aim, but is an accidental result of a necessary procedure, then no sin is comitted.
And if you’re trying to confuse me with that technical language, you don’t. It proves nothing.
The technical language is something a 13 year old should understand. It was put in as simple a form as possible.
I could have written several paragraphs, but you would have lost the point.
You’re talking to a nerd here.
Surely it was something a nerd should have no difficulty with?
That "limited resource statement is badly misinformed, and God forbid that we value our planet’s perceived welfare more than human life. Yes- human life that Our Lord died for.
The G_d help you, for if we destroy this blessed planet, we destroy everything that crawls thereon, and that includes us.

Now we have done insulting eachother, can we discuss matters in an adult way?

Is this an honest thread, or just a propaganda organ for McCain and a bull terrier with lip-stick?
 
Wrong! The sperm and egg are merely cells of the parent, once they fuse, they have their own DNA pattern, and are human.
Both are human
Both are alive.
That they each have only 23 chromosomes is irrelevant, in the case of the oocite, and half of the spermatazoans, by duplicating the chromosomes, a complete functioning set of 46 can be generated.
In a very real sense, every single cell of the human body is potentially a new human being.
It’s called cloning, but it happens naturally in the womb.
What I really like about this year, is that I don’t have to have either. Mccain 08!
Nice to see you honestly showing your colours.
Use of this board as a political bandstand, is of course against the rules.
I think you are sailing close to the wind.
I don’t see you voulenteering to stop using resources. Funny how people say the human population must be reduced for the earth’s sake, but never voulenteer themselves.
If you read my profile, and first post, you will find ythat long ago we stopped adding to the burden.
How about you?
 
NO, that is FALSE. Mother Church has not given a definitive judgement on this.
His Holiness, JP23 gave his judgement, but that was advisory, and not binding teaching.
Please learn to read what is written. I never said that this was the Church’s judgement, but rather, it was the judgement of reasonable people.
As for homework, you beware whom you call.
I have researched this well, and read much, including humanitas vitae, and the catechism.
Should a surgeon, on the operating table, uincur an emergency, which requires that to save the life of the mother, he needs, in his judgement, to take action which will effectively terminate a pregnancy, then, provided that the termination is not the primary aim, but is an accidental result of a necessary procedure, then no sin is comitted.
The technical language is something a 13 year old should understand. It was put in as simple a form as possible.
I could have written several paragraphs, but you would have lost the point.
Surely it was something a nerd should have no difficulty with?
The G_d help you, for if we destroy this blessed planet, we destroy everything that crawls thereon, and that includes us.

Now we have done insulting eachother, can we discuss matters in an adult way?

Is this an honest thread, or just a propaganda organ for McCain and a bull terrier with lip-stick?
You ERR and in a very profound way. How is you say to care for the planet, but not the most innocent who would strive to live on it. Adults have gotten the planet into it’s morbidity, not babies.
 
Let’s drag science in to this:
Absolutely, then let us use precise language.
Start over by re-reading my first post on this thread, (the one you’re picking over here.
My language there is quite precise, and all dubious terms are defined.
According to this here biology textbook, life begins at conception.
Obviously a book aimed at children, using sloppy and non-technical language. I told you ALL clearly when life began.
You should be able to find one of these at your local library. Here’s another arguement, copied and pasted from where I posted it in another thread: So, when does a cell quit being just someone’s cell, and start being a baby? Conception, of course! Why? Because prior to that, the cell had your DNA. Now, the cell has it’s own DNA, different from everyone else on the entire planet. The cell is now, scientifically, it’s own person.
Here we have some truth freely mixed with misinformation.
There is a world of difference between a zygote and a baby.
1/ There is a world of difference betyween a zygote and a blastocyst.
2/ There is a world of difference between a blastocyst and an embryo.
3/ There is a world of difference between an embryo and a foetus.
4/ And though it might not be obvious, there is a world of difference bewteen a foetus and a baby waiting to be born.

If you require, I can amplify these differences.
Some people will say it’s not okay to abort once it’s in the second or third trimester, but all the baby does between conception and then is grow, it’s already living!(I even borrowed a few textbooks from a library, and the unborn baby is alive, by definition.)
Others will say until it’s born it’s okay to abort(planned parenthood, for instance), but again, what changes? What if it’s head is almost out, but not quite, can you abort it then? What if all that’s left are it’s feet? Once again, their position can be supported using neither science not scripture.
People making spurious arguements usually start by using imprecise language.
Yes, I see your line in the sand.
That is where you see it right to draw it, and I respect that viewpoint.
However, it is not a ‘real-world’ viewpoint, so not politically viable.
I offer a reasonable viewpoint, which is scientifically defensible, and so might be politically viable.
I consider it to be a better viewpoint than what obtains today, both here, and with you. Not perfect, but less bad.
[sign]Partial birth termination is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY. [/sign]
Now this I agree with.
 
You ERR and in a very profound way. How is you say to care for the planet, but not the most innocent who would strive to live on it. Adults have gotten the planet into it’s morbidity, not babies.
True, but if we make this planet non viable, then not only do the guilty humans perish, but also the innocent and the unborn.

Any human guilty of destroying, even partially, this blessed blue sphere, is thereby guilty of worse than genocide.
 
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