Is anyone else reluctantly religious?

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Hi everyone. I find myself “reluctantly” religious. Don’t get me wrong. I’m Catholic, though and through. I just have a hard time with the idea of organized religion because I sincerely believe that religion is a personal matter. I am commonly frustrated when religious groups try to foist beliefs on others or go around proclaiming superiority to other religious groups. There are so many instances of people claiming to do things in the name of religion (whichever religion that may be) that appear so misguided and insane. For these reason, I often find myself wishing I could be just spiritual rather than religious. Now, me being Catholic means that I know it doesn’t work like that, but I’m just curious if other people feel that same. If I didn’t give my explanation justice, I’m happy to clarify.

Eamon
 
Last Thursday’s Gospel Mark 6: 7-13 - Jesus sent them out TWO BY TWO.
Why? Because we are not meant to do this alone.

I agree that justifying wrong-doing and stupid decisions with “religion” is incredibly annoying and often down-right wrong. But that is no excuse to discount the one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church and her doings 😉 (which I know you aren’t entirely doing).

I struggle a lot with being supported by others because I am so reluctant to share my own faith. This is actually something I plan on talking with Father about this week because there is a year long program going on now in my diocese designed to bring us closer to each other in sharing our faith that I would like to be a part of but am afraid of.

I absolutely LOVE the unity of the people in the Mass. Huge support in the Faith to be doing the same thing at the same time (sad though that so few know the meaning of what we are doing :().

Christ’s peace be with you.
 
turboEDvo said:
Hi everyone. I find myself “reluctantly” religious. Don’t get me wrong. I’m Catholic, though and through. I just have a hard time with the idea of organized religion because I sincerely believe that religion is a personal matter. I am commonly frustrated when religious groups try to foist beliefs on others or go around proclaiming superiority to other religious groups. There are so many instances of people claiming to do things in the name of religion (whichever religion that may be) that appear so misguided and insane. For these reason, I often find myself wishing I could be just spiritual rather than religious. Now, me being Catholic means that I know it doesn’t work like that, but I’m just curious if other people feel that same. If I didn’t give my explanation justice, I’m happy to clarify.

Eamon
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Religion is not a personal matter. We have an obligation to do our best to help everybody to go to heaven. How do you do it outside an organized system that has been established by God Himself?
I would also be frustrated by religious groups that claim superiority. Only God is superior, and we have an obligation to spread His Truth for everybody’s salvation.
 
Well, I’m not trying to say I want to do religion alone. It’s just that it is so organized at this point that it sometimes feels to me that it has lost the personal nature of it.

Eamon
 
turboEDvo said:
Well, I’m not trying to say I want to do religion alone. It’s just that it is so organized at this point that it sometimes feels to me that it has lost the personal nature of it.

Eamon
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I am not sure that I understand what you are talking about when you say personal nature vs. organized religion. Can you please elaborate a little bit more?

I understand that we have a personal obligation but we do not state to have a personal savior as our protestant brothers do. Even the sacraments are not personal, they involve the whole Church. The communion of saints is one of the least personal relations with God that I could imagine. On the other side our vocation in life is a very personal calling for a very public need.

If you are an introvert you can make a great religious person, but your actions are really public actions even if they do not appear so. If you are an extrovert, you still must make personal time to listen to God through prayer, meditation and contemplation. I think that maybe you just need to get in touch with a spiritual director, it sounds like you are going trough “growing (spiritual) pains”
 
So, I think I can better define what I mean.

Worshiping together with other believers is great. Sharing your faith with others is also great. I believe that expressing faith together is a supportive, positive act.

My issue is with the use of religion to put others down. I’ve seen and participated in so many discussions where one or more party looses decency defending their faith while trying to defend it with points that are not necessarily “facts.” Religion by definition isn’t a fact, and I get tired of people treating their religion as though it were something that they need to prove and justify to others.

I see a big difference between a believer expressing his or her faith to help another person grow in faith and a person who is rude, uncharitable, or angry toward somebody who disagrees with them.

So, my point is that religious groups have this tendency to polarize people. Some believers express their faith to others lovingly. Others use religion as a veil to cover their disagreement with somebody else’s opinions or actions. It is with the latter that I take issue.

As a result of this behavior, I often don’t want to associate myself with a church, even if I share beliefs, because there exists an impression that I agree with the negative aspects of behavior (which I do not).

Does that make more sense?

Eamon
 
turboEDvo said:
So, I think I can better define what I mean.

Worshiping together with other believers is great. Sharing your faith with others is also great. I believe that expressing faith together is a supportive, positive act.

My issue is with the use of religion to put others down. I’ve seen and participated in so many discussions where one or more party looses decency defending their faith while trying to defend it with points that are not necessarily “facts.” Religion by definition isn’t a fact, and I get tired of people treating their religion as though it were something that they need to prove and justify to others.

I see a big difference between a believer expressing his or her faith to help another person grow in faith and a person who is rude, uncharitable, or angry toward somebody who disagrees with them.

So, my point is that religious groups have this tendency to polarize people. Some believers express their faith to others lovingly. Others use religion as a veil to cover their disagreement with somebody else’s opinions or actions. It is with the latter that I take issue.

As a result of this behavior, I often don’t want to associate myself with a church, even if I share beliefs, because there exists an impression that I agree with the negative aspects of behavior (which I do not).

Does that make more sense?

Eamon
Click to expand...
That makes a lot of sense. Those behaviors go against what Christianity is about. If you remember the readings from St. Paul for the Sunday 1/31/2010 you will see that he said:

"If I speak in human and angelic tongues,
but do not have love,
I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
And if I have the gift of prophecy,
and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge;
if I have all faith so as to move mountains,
but do not have love, I am nothing.
If I give away everything I own,
and if I hand my body over so that I may boast,
but do not have love, I gain nothing."

I encourage you to read Caritas in Veritate and you will understand why we must face people with Love and Truth.
 
turboEDvo said:
So, my point is that religious groups have this tendency to polarize people. Some believers express their faith to others lovingly. Others use religion as a veil to cover their disagreement with somebody else’s opinions or actions. It is with the latter that I take issue.

As a result of this behavior, I often don’t want to associate myself with a church, even if I share beliefs, because there exists an impression that I agree with the negative aspects of behavior (which I do not).

Does that make more sense?

Eamon
Click to expand...
It makes sense. (Not meant to be answered - but just thought about) - Are you involved in a group or club that you find yourself encountering this badgering and bullying polarization?

Or are you finding yourself in conversation with someone on a religious topic often where it turns into a confrontational discussion?

Is there something you can p(name removed by moderator)oint that perhaps you need to step away from to save your faith? A relationship, a friend, a club, a group, work mates?
 
turboEDvo said:
So, I think I can better define what I mean.

Worshiping together with other believers is great. Sharing your faith with others is also great. I believe that expressing faith together is a supportive, positive act.

My issue is with the use of religion to put others down. I’ve seen and participated in so many discussions where one or more party looses decency defending their faith while trying to defend it with points that are not necessarily “facts.” Religion by definition isn’t a fact, and I get tired of people treating their religion as though it were something that they need to prove and justify to others.

I see a big difference between a believer expressing his or her faith to help another person grow in faith and a person who is rude, uncharitable, or angry toward somebody who disagrees with them.

So, my point is that religious groups have this tendency to polarize people. Some believers express their faith to others lovingly. Others use religion as a veil to cover their disagreement with somebody else’s opinions or actions. It is with the latter that I take issue.

As a result of this behavior, I often don’t want to associate myself with a church, even if I share beliefs, because there exists an impression that I agree with the negative aspects of behavior (which I do not).

Does that make more sense?

Eamon
Click to expand...
I don’t see where this is much different than everyday life. Political groups tend to polarize people. Families get polarized. Go to work and you are going to find all kinds of people with different views and often cliques are formed. Just listen to the news or read the paper and you’ll see how many have their own agenda. Religion is no different, sadly. But just as you wouldn’t, ordinarily, go it alone in society, neither should we try to go it alone in religion. God did not create us to be loners, He said it was not good for man to be alone. We need each other, often more than we think. Human are made that way.

If you read the OT, you’ll see that God intended His people to worship together. He formed a whole nation for Himself! Jesus never advocated a purely one-on-one approach. Yes, we must form an individual relationship with Him, but then we are to join with others to proclaim the Gospel. The early Christians were a community of believers. Going it alone is unbiblical. We are the Body of Christ.

You don’t have to get involved in the bickering and the lack of charity. You are called to take the higher road, and you are to support your brothers and sisters in Christ. Find those with whom you can fellowship and share your spirituality. There still may be some disagreement, but it can be done with charity and love. Don’t get involved in arguments. If someone is uncharitable, politely but firmly end the conversation, but do it in a charitable manner. And be at peace with yourself. I hope this helps.
 
turboEDvo said:
Hi everyone. I find myself “reluctantly” religious. Don’t get me wrong. I’m Catholic, though and through. I just have a hard time with the idea of organized religion because I sincerely believe that religion is a personal matter. I am commonly frustrated when religious groups try to foist beliefs on others or go around proclaiming superiority to other religious groups. There are so many instances of people claiming to do things in the name of religion (whichever religion that may be) that appear so misguided and insane. For these reason, I often find myself wishing I could be just spiritual rather than religious. Now, me being Catholic means that I know it doesn’t work like that, but I’m just curious if other people feel that same. If I didn’t give my explanation justice, I’m happy to clarify.

Eamon
Click to expand...
To comment on you “personal matter” thought…

One of the pillars of the Catholic church… is UNITY… all throughout the centuries… it this the Catholic UNITY that shows the mark of the Church…

WE are ONE… WE are a called to be UNITED…

Being religious is NOT a personal matter at all… NOT by ANY means… Don’t fall into that pitt… because someone’s spirituallity is ALWAYS relation… take not RELAtional…

God called us to love one another as we love Him!!!

You pray to God personally - and that is as personal as you can get… Everything else is God’s love shown in your relationships… so there you go… Religion is NOT a peronal matter…

Hope this helps
 
Oh, my. You definitely should stay away from some of these forums. We tend to get a little heated from time to time. We sometimes need to talk about or even defend our beliefs but should do it with a respectful attitude. Catholicism is superior to other religions because the Church was founded by Jesus. But that doesn’t mean Catholics are superior to other people. We need to remember that.

We can’t be Catholic by ourselves because being Catholic means we’re part of a body, we’re joined to each other as closely as parts of a body.
 
turboEDvo said:
Hi everyone. I find myself “reluctantly” religious. Don’t get me wrong. I’m Catholic, though and through. I just have a hard time with the idea of organized religion because I sincerely believe that religion is a personal matter. I am commonly frustrated when religious groups try to foist beliefs on others or go around proclaiming superiority to other religious groups. There are so many instances of people claiming to do things in the name of religion (whichever religion that may be) that appear so misguided and insane. For these reason, I often find myself wishing I could be just spiritual rather than religious. Now, me being Catholic means that I know it doesn’t work like that, but I’m just curious if other people feel that same. If I didn’t give my explanation justice, I’m happy to clarify.

Eamon
Click to expand...
Religion can’t be a purely personal matter as we’re called to love God and love our neighbor. That is the essence of true religion. And none of that is personal alone; it is unitive. It encompasses all of humanity.

John 17

17
Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth.
18
As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.
19
And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth.
20
"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
21
so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
22
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one,
23
I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.

Also, real love is found in truth, not in lies. Where there are lies and untruths, genuine love and grace cannot grow. What is wrong cannot create what is good; a patch of thistles cannot produce apples or strawberries. Bad begets bad and good begets good. Consequently we must seek and live in the only truth there is and love with the only love there is, the love that is found in truth. Mercifully, this love is protected by bishops and priests who represent Christ to the world, called to show His love to all mankind through their holy lives.

Real love is found in truth and is always giving; hence it cannot be confined to the self but must be spread to all humanity. To restrict it is evil.
 
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