Is anyone in hell?

[Usagi]

So Mary and all the other saints who had visions of hell are lying? These visionaries differenciate between purgatory and hell. And Mary said that souls were falling into HELL like snowflakes.

If nobody goes to hell, then why can’t I sin unceasingly?

Also, why would Satan be working so hard if he knew God would never send a soul there?

There are two different theological positions being confused here.

Universalism – the idea that God will ultimately save everyone no matter what – is a heresy condemned by the Church. That is the one that you are criticizing, and not the one that a serious Catholic thinker like von Balthasar would ever put forward as a possibility.

The “we may rightly hope that Hell is empty” idea is a different thing. It is not contradicting Catholic doctrine by stating that even those who die in mortal sin would go to Hell. It is expressing the hope that, as we are told God wills, all people ultimately repent before death (even if no but they and God know it in this life) and we wind up finding that everyone is in Heaven in the end. It is something that all Christians should hope, even if for the reasons stated elsewhere in this thread it seems unlikely in practice.

 

[Little_Sheep]

No one knows. But if hell is empty, where is the reward for having tried one’s best to life a moral life?

Still, the Church teaches that no one knows if anyone has been sent to hell. No one knows what a person’s dying thoughts are. Maybe they truly repented.

The reward is living one’s best moral life, which always lifts oneself and one’s fellows, which always strives to brings God’s Kingdom here to Earth.

I live a moral Christian life. My desire to do so informs every decision I make. I do not behave morally to avoid Hell (which I believe to be empty because empty is the very definition of Hell), but because Jesus (who I believe to be Full Up) asked me to.

 

[powerofk]

There are two different theological positions being confused here.

Universalism – the idea that God will ultimately save everyone no matter what – is a heresy condemned by the Church. That is the one that you are criticizing, and not the one that a serious Catholic thinker like von Balthasar would ever put forward as a possibility.

The “we may rightly hope that Hell is empty” idea is a different thing. It is not contradicting Catholic doctrine by stating that even those who die in mortal sin would go to Hell. It is expressing the hope that, as we are told God wills, all people ultimately repent before death (even if no but they and God know it in this life) and we wind up finding that everyone is in Heaven in the end. It is something that all Christians should hope, even if for the reasons stated elsewhere in this thread it seems unlikely in practice.

Exactly. By saying, “I hope Hell is empty” is saying “I hope every person who was ever alive was perfectly contrite at the point of death”. Why? Because having anyone in Hell would be, in and of itself, a tragedy (and even though the tragedy is personally chosen, it’s still a tragedy). God individually loves every person He has ever created so much that if that one person was the only person who had ever sinned, Jesus would have died for just that one person. As such, it is an act of love (in fact, a Spiritual Work of Mercy) to pray for the living and the dead, for just that hope that every person is perfectly contrite at death.

 

[Vico]

Does the Church teach that there are souls in hell, but we just don’t know who they are? Or is there a possibility even a slim one that hell is empty?

Pietro

Matthew 23:13
But woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men, for you yourselves do not enter in; and those that are going in, you suffer not to enter.

John 8:42-47
42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: 43 Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But if I say the truth, you believe me not. 46 Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me? 47 He that is of God, heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God.

Mark 14:21
And the Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed. It were better for him, if that man had not been born.

 

[Simca]

SOMETIMES I wonder if Hell is empty at the moment.

In Matthew chapter 8, when Jesus cast out some demons, the demons spoke to Jesus and said: "“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?” So Jesus cast them out, did not send them to hell, but allowed them to possess a herd of pigs instead.

The scriptures say that hell was created for Satan and the demons, but it seems these demons weren’t there yet.

So I wonder about people when they die…if the appointed time has not come for the demons to be permanently cast into hell…but then that opens up tons of other questions, such as where are the dead now, etc… I know we believe that judgement and our final destination is decided at our death. So I guess I’m just rambling.

I know the eternal judgement is coming where people en masse will be cast for all eternity into the Lake of Fire…maybe it’s 2 separate places, but I didn’t think so. It will be the final abode for satan, the demons, and all who rebelled against God.

 

[Vico]

SOMETIMES I wonder if Hell is empty at the moment.

In Matthew chapter 8, when Jesus cast out some demons, the demons spoke to Jesus and said: "“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?” So Jesus cast them out, did not send them to hell, but allowed them to possess a herd of pigs instead.

The scriptures say that hell was created for Satan and the demons, but it seems these demons weren’t there yet.

So I wonder about people when they die…if the appointed time has not come for the demons to be permanently cast into hell…but then that opens up tons of other questions, such as where are the dead now, etc… I know we believe that judgement and our final destination is decided at our death. So I guess I’m just rambling.

I know the eternal judgement is coming where people en masse will be cast for all eternity into the Lake of Fire…maybe it’s 2 separate places, but I didn’t think so. It will be the final abode for satan, the demons, and all who rebelled against God.

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification 594 or immediately, 595 – or immediate and everlasting damnation. 596

At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love. 597594 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 857-858; Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304- 1306; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820.
595 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000-1001; John XXII, Ne super his (1334): DS 990.
596 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1002.
597 St. John of the Cross, Dichos 64.​

 

[clem456]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification 594 or immediately, 595 – or immediate and everlasting damnation. 596

At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love. 597594 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 857-858; Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304- 1306; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820.
595 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000-1001; John XXII, Ne super his (1334): DS 990.
596 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1002.
597 St. John of the Cross, Dichos 64.​

The Church expressing our beatitude in reference to Christ.
The expression of the Church is always in reference to “the good”, not in fear of “the bad”. Even the definition of hell only has meaning in reference to the good.

This state of definitive** self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed** is called “hell.”

Noticeably, the Church does not speculate about who and how many.

 

[Vico]

The Church expressing our beatitude in reference to Christ.
The expression of the Church is always in reference to “the good”, not in fear of “the bad”. Even the definition of hell only has meaning in reference to the good.
Noticeably, the Church does not speculate about who and how many.

Rather, they hold to what is given in scripture and tradition. And there are many in heaven (from CCC 1023), which are:

the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ’s holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .)

 

[clem456]

Rather, they hold to what is given in scripture and tradition. And there are many in heaven (from CCC 1023), which are:

the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ’s holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .)

Amen to that.

 

[EveningSkye111]

Yes many. They are almost all ( or perhaps excusivley) people who had sex of some sort or another

That would then include all your ancestors.

 

[Pedro_1987]

If hell is empty then it’s impossible to be sent there and everything the church teaches about salvation is completely wrong and none of it ever mattered.

 

[clem456]

If hell is empty then it’s impossible to be sent there and everything the church teaches about salvation is completely wrong and none of it ever mattered.

trying to follow the logic there…
My house is empty while I’m at work but it’s possible I could be there later.

What the Church teaches about salvation is that…
never mind, just read the catechism.

 

[PJM]

Does the Church teach that there are souls in hell, but we just don’t know who they are? Or is there a possibility even a slim one that hell is empty?

Pietro

Absourely NOT empty… Such is a MORAL Impossibility

Indeed there are FAR more souls in Hell than Purgatory or Heaven! Amen!

 

[clem456]

Absourely NOT empty… Such is a MORAL Impossibility

Indeed there are FAR more souls in Hell than Purgatory or Heaven! Amen!

“far more”…
Citations of official Church teaching please…
(with all due respect to private revelations)

 

[mikekle]

Absourely NOT empty… Such is a MORAL Impossibility

Indeed there are FAR more souls in Hell than Purgatory or Heaven! Amen!

If its true that FAR more souls end up in hell than heaven or purgatory, that would essentially mean Satan/ hell will triumph over God and the church though…if Satan has managed to ‘steal away’ more souls than those that end up in Heaven, hell will hold the majority of people ever created.See what Im saying?

 

[clem456]

Absourely NOT empty… Such is a MORAL Impossibility

Indeed there are FAR more souls in Hell than Purgatory or Heaven! Amen!

And I’m not sure how the word “moral” fits into the question.

Morality concerns the evaluation of acts.
Whether hell is chock full or lonely is not a matter of moral evaluation. It’s simply a matter of speculation.

 

[Pedro_1987]

trying to follow the logic there…
My house is empty while I’m at work but it’s possible I could be there later.

What the Church teaches about salvation is that…
never mind, just read the catechism.

If nobody has been bad enough for Hell yet in all the atrocities of mankind, then it’s pretty safe to say nobody will ever go. Pretty much any sin ever has been committed.

As for what the church teaches on salvation; confession would be pointless if God forgives everybody of everything regardless of if they’re sorry or not. Likewise that means there’s no such thing as mortal sin. So that contradicts some major church teachings right there.

Not gonna say there’s no point in believing or obeying since your faith is pretty pathetic if you only follow to avoid hell.

 

[clem456]

If nobody has been bad enough for Hell yet in all the atrocities of mankind, then it’s pretty safe to say nobody will ever go. Pretty much any sin ever has been committed.

As for what the church teaches on salvation; confession would be pointless if God forgives everybody of everything regardless of if they’re sorry or not. Likewise that means there’s no such thing as mortal sin. So that contradicts some major church teachings right there.

Not gonna say there’s no point in believing or obeying since your faith is pretty pathetic if you only follow to avoid hell.

I wouldn’t disagree with what you say, I simply am not qualified to say who’s in hell and who’s not. And the Church takes the opposite POV by emphasizing the good.

And so I find the speculation bad for my soul. It takes my eye off the problems I have with my own sanctification.

 

[Usagi]

If nobody has been bad enough for Hell yet in all the atrocities of mankind, then it’s pretty safe to say nobody will ever go. Pretty much any sin ever has been committed.

And every one of those sins is forgivable upon sincere repentance.

No one is contradicting Church teaching by suggesting that even the unrepentant would be saved. But it is logically possible – though unlikely – for every last human to have repented before death. Indeed, we are told in Scripture that God’s perfect will is that all be saved. We are not Calvinists believing that some humans are created just to be damned – and so it must be that each individual has (or had, or will have) a real chance to accept the working of God’s grace.

Naturally, one may believe (and historically, most Christians have) that in practice it is likely that Hell is heavily populated. But those who hold out hope (not certainty or demands, but hope) that God actually triumphs completely in the end are not heretics and are denying no Church teaching.

 

[powerofk]

If nobody has been bad enough for Hell yet in all the atrocities of mankind, then it’s pretty safe to say nobody will ever go. Pretty much any sin ever has been committed.

As for what the church teaches on salvation; confession would be pointless if God forgives everybody of everything regardless of if they’re sorry or not. Likewise that means there’s no such thing as mortal sin. So that contradicts some major church teachings right there.

Not gonna say there’s no point in believing or obeying since your faith is pretty pathetic if you only follow to avoid hell.

The chance that there is no one in Hell is infinitesimally small, but there’s still the chance. The Church teaches that if someone has perfect contrition (which can only be granted as a gift from God), then his/her sins are forgiven, even if he/she has no possible means of going to Confession between the time perfect contrition was realized and death (of course, if it is at all possible to go to Confession, perfect contrition demands that one goes). So the hope is that every single person has realized perfect contrition at the point of death, and that God has granted every person the grace to be perfectly contrite. This is one of the reasons why we pray for the dead. The other reason, of course, is to aid those in Purgatory, but a person wouldn’t even be in Purgatory if he/she was not in a state of grace, and so we pray that the person was in the state of grace. And since God exists outside of time and space, He can bestow graces in the past to someone even if we ask Him today.

Saying that we hope that no one is in Hell is a statement of love, because we want everyone to be in Heaven with God. God loves us all, and Jesus died for us all. For even one person to be in Hell would be a tragedy, because it would mean that that person has rejected God’s love and mercy. But even if there is no one in Hell now, it remains a distinct possibility that one of us could end up there.