Is anyone in hell?

[PJM]

The chance that there is no one in Hell is infinitesimally small, but there’s still the chance. The Church teaches that if someone has perfect contrition (which can only be granted as a gift from God), then his/her sins are forgiven, even if he/she has no possible means of going to Confession between the time perfect contrition was realized and death (of course, if it is at all possible to go to Confession, perfect contrition demands that one goes). So the hope is that every single person has realized perfect contrition at the point of death, and that God has granted every person the grace to be perfectly contrite. This is one of the reasons why we pray for the dead. The other reason, of course, is to aid those in Purgatory, but a person wouldn’t even be in Purgatory if he/she was not in a state of grace, and so we pray that the person was in the state of grace. And since God exists outside of time and space, He can bestow graces in the past to someone even if we ask Him today.

Saying that we hope that no one is in Hell is a statement of love, because we want everyone to be in Heaven with God. God loves us all, and Jesus died for us all. For even one person to be in Hell would be a tragedy, because it would mean that that person has rejected God’s love and mercy. But even if there is no one in Hell now, it remains a distinct possibility that one of us could end up there.

The chance that there is no one in Hell is infinitesimally small, but there’s still the chance. The Church teaches that if someone has perfect contrition (which can only be granted} …]

**NO! NOT “infinitesimally small”… IMPOSSIBLE]

PLEASE READ MY POST #'s 50-60 for the specifics:thumbsup:

God Bless you,

I Do understand the point you were trying to make; but…

Patrick**

 

[JPUSC]

What is the basis for the Catholic teaching on Hell?

I believe in Jewish thought, Hell is not eternal. If Catholicism has its origins from Judaism, where did the idea of eternal damnation come from?

 

[powerofk]

NO! NOT “infinitesimally small”… IMPOSSIBLE]

PLEASE READ MY POST #'s 50-60 for the specifics:thumbsup:

God Bless you,

I Do understand the point you were trying to make; but…

Patrick

Except, Patrick, no matter how loud you shout doesn’t make what you are saying true. Do I believe there is a Hell? Of course! Do I believe that the unrepentant go there? Of course! But saying that it is impossible (not merely an extreme improbability) for every person to have repented is also putting a limit on God’s graces. And, of course, to say definitively that Hell is not a possibility, not only is heretical, but puts a limit on human free will.

For example, do I believe that Hitler repented after committing all of his atrocities? No. But is it possible? With God, anything is possible. There remains the possibility, no matter how small, that in the split second between his pulling of the trigger and his dying, Hitler had full and perfect contrition. Remember, all of us deserve Hell from our own actions. But God, through the Cross, allows us, while in this life, continued chances to repent, even on death’s door.

Remember the parable about the rich vineyard owner hiring workers? Jesus meant it as a parable of Heaven. Heaven, by the way, in the parable, is equated with the “daily wage” for having done the work of the vineyard owner (Jesus). Yet even those who started doing the work at the end of their lives (the 11th hour) are rewarded.

Regardless, though, the question that we are currently debating was answered in the “Ask an Apologist” forum about 2-3 weeks ago by Fr. Charles Grondin. His reply to this very question is here: Is it reasonable to hope all be saved?

He pretty much uses the exact same reasoning that has been presented to you here. And, as you know, the apologists (especially the priest apologists) on this forum are especially orthodox.

 

[Vico]

What is the basis for the Catholic teaching on Hell?

I believe in Jewish thought, Hell is not eternal. If Catholicism has its origins from Judaism, where did the idea of eternal damnation come from?

Catholic Encylpedia:

The Holy Bible is quite explicit in teaching the eternity of the pains of hell. The torments of the damned shall last forever and ever (Revelation 14:11; 19:3; 20:10). They are everlasting just as are the joys of heaven (Matthew 25:46). Of Judas Christ says: “it were better for him, if that man had not been born” (Matthew 26:24). But this would not have been true if Judas was ever to be released from hell and admitted to eternal happiness. Again, God says of the damned: “Their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched” (Isaiah 66:24; Mark 9:43, 45, 47). The fire of hell is repeatedly called eternal and unquenchable. The wrath of God abideth on the damned (John 3:36); they are vessels of Divine wrath (Romans 9:22); they shall not possess the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:10; Galatians 5:21), etc.

Hontheim, J. (1910). Hell. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company.
newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

What is the basis for the Catholic teaching on Hell?

I believe in Jewish thought, Hell is not eternal. If Catholicism has its origins from Judaism, where did the idea of eternal damnation come from?

An eternal damnation is in both the Old & New Testaments. Some examples in the Old Testament are:
Judith xvi. 20-21, “Woe be to the nation that riseth up against my people: for the Lord almighty will take revenge on them, in the day of judgment he will visit them. For he will give fire, and worms into their flesh, that they may burn, and may feel for ever.”
Daniel xii. 2, " And many of those that sleep in the dust of the earth, shall awake: some unto life everlasting, and others unto reproach, to see it always."
Wisdom iv. 18-19, “They shall see him, and shall despise him: but the Lord shall laugh them to scorn. And they shall fall after this without honour, and be a reproach among the dead for ever…”

 

[prodromos]

Catholic Catechism
#1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

So it appears we have another point on which the Catholic Church seperates itself from the Orthodox faith.

 

[Vico]

Our Catholic Catechism
#1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

Do those large red letters represent “eternal fire”?

 

[JPUSC]

So it appears we have another point on which the Catholic Church seperates itself from the Orthodox faith.

What does the Orthodox faith say?

 

[powerofk]

By the way, souls in Hell glorify God’s justice simply by being there, souls in Heaven glorify God’s Mercy simply by being there.

As for those in Hell, we should mourn them all, as they have chosen to be eternally separated. Hell is not something we should wish that anyone choose for themselves, and yet there have been posters on this thread that appear to me to be cheering for there to be people that have been eternally damned. Remember, the Church cannot say who is in Hell - and we only know a fraction of those who are in Heaven (the canonized saints). To be honest, the number of people in Hell could range from zero (every single person who has died has been perfectly contrite - an infinitessimally small chance, though no sin is too great for God’s Mercy) to every single person who has died yet has not been canonized, or at least beatified (again, also an infinitessimally small chance, as there are many people who have lived virtuous lives who have been forgotten). And by infinitessimally small chance to mean that the chances are as close to zero as they can be without being zero.

 

[PJM]

Except, Patrick, no matter how loud you shout doesn’t make what you are saying true. Do I believe there is a Hell? Of course! Do I believe that the unrepentant go there? Of course! But saying that it is impossible (not merely an extreme improbability) for every person to have repented is also putting a limit on God’s graces. And, of course, to say definitively that Hell is not a possibility, not only is heretical, but puts a limit on human free will.

For example, do I believe that Hitler repented after committing all of his atrocities? No. But is it possible? With God, anything is possible. There remains the possibility, no matter how small, that in the split second between his pulling of the trigger and his dying, Hitler had full and perfect contrition. Remember, all of us deserve Hell from our own actions. But God, through the Cross, allows us, while in this life, continued chances to repent, even on death’s door.

Remember the parable about the rich vineyard owner hiring workers? Jesus meant it as a parable of Heaven. Heaven, by the way, in the parable, is equated with the “daily wage” for having done the work of the vineyard owner (Jesus). Yet even those who started doing the work at the end of their lives (the 11th hour) are rewarded.

Regardless, though, the question that we are currently debating was answered in the “Ask an Apologist” forum about 2-3 weeks ago by Fr. Charles Grondin. His reply to this very question is here: Is it reasonable to hope all be saved?

He pretty much uses the exact same reasoning that has been presented to you here. And, as you know, the apologists (especially the priest apologists) on this forum are especially orthodox.

Thank you my friend,

BTW; its emphasis NOT shouting

Your position would negate the absolute essential purpose of hell.

Did you read the Catechism passages in my previous post?

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

So it appears we have another point on which the Catholic Church seperates itself from the Orthodox faith.

Actually vise-versa dear friend,

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[mikekle]

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny.** They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”**

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where “men will weep and gnash their teeth.”

#1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1056 (147 bytes ) preview document matches
6 Following the example of Christ, the Church warns the faithful of the “sad and lamentable reality of eternal death” (GCD 69), also called “hell.”

Matthew 7: 13-15

[13]" Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. [14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! [15] Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves".

But that still means, a majority of Gods creations (humans) CHOSE the enemy (or the enemies ways), willingly instead of God and the way he wanted us to live our lives.

I understand what you are saying about hell or the enemies ways being the ‘easier’ choice in this life, but if a majority of people choose this route, whether they know what they are doing or not, its still going to result in more souls being damned than end up in heaven…to me, this seems like satan would be the victor??