Is Assisted suicide wrong in every case?

[MindOverMatter2]

I do not support assisted suicide, but for the sake of debate; if life is extreme torment, then isn’t assisted suicide a merciful act?

I imagine a future where people with severe depression can have the option of going to a clinic and being put to sleep permanently. It will save resources and cut down on the population. Profit before people guys.

 

[inocente]

Last year we had our oldest dog “put down”. There were so many things wrong with him, he was getting nothing out of his life anymore apart from pain and confusion, there was no hope, and you reach a point where you have to ask whether you’re keeping him alive for yourself or for him. So while he still had some dignity we took him to the vets, and the female vet said it was for the best but she could never bring herself to take a life, her husband would do it, and we felt the need to apologize to him and take the burden from him.

I don’t know about the morality in general but if I got into the sorry state of our dog then I’d like someone to do the deed for me.

 

[PAboy57]

I do not see any case in which the Church would support assisted suicide.

The church supports making the patient as comfortable as possible but natural death must take its course.

PART 3, SECTION 2, CHAPTER 2, ARTICLE 5, SUBSECTION 1, HEADING 6

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

 

[Spock]

Last year we had our oldest dog “put down”. There were so many things wrong with him, he was getting nothing out of his life anymore apart from pain and confusion, there was no hope, and you reach a point where you have to ask whether you’re keeping him alive for yourself or for him. So while he still had some dignity we took him to the vets, and the female vet said it was for the best but she could never bring herself to take a life, her husband would do it, and we felt the need to apologize to him and take the burden from him.

I don’t know about the morality in general but if I got into the sorry state of our dog then I’d like someone to do the deed for me.

Triple cheers to you, my friend! It is indeed a sorry state of affairs when we are more humane to our dogs than we are to our fellow men.

It is pretty horrible to “help” someone to die by starving to her death, and yet it is called a “humane” method. What a twisted mind some people have.

 

[puzzleannie]

yes it is murder on the part of the one who assists or enables, and the sin of suicide on the part of the one who asks to be killed, and he is culpable to the extent is mental condition allows him to freely consent.

my take is the same as yours on the profit motive. since that is the driving force behind the abortion industry it will also drive the coming AS industry. My take is further that “assisted suicide” will become routine by third parties, not even the subject of the action, making the request or decision, so it won’t even be suicide because the subject will have no choice. Grandma is suffering, she is in the way, we could use her room, and besides she probably has some dough to leave us, let’s put her out of her misery, Hey we did it to the cat, why not grandma!

 

[JRKH]

I do not support assisted suicide, but for the sake of debate; if life is extreme torment, then isn’t assisted suicide a merciful act?

I imagine a future where people with severe depression can have the option of going to a clinic and being put to sleep permanently. It will save resources and cut down on the population. Profit before people guys.

As a matter of Church teaching - Yes assisted suicide is wrong in every case. Suicide is murder and murder is a sin. Assisting in suicide is assisting in murder and murder is a sin…I see no way around it.

As a matter of practical application and since we cannot here examine “every case” (including all possible permutations) we cannot definitively say it would be wrong in every case…Or to put it more correctly - while it would still be wrong, culpability might be lessened.

Peace
James

 

[PAboy57]

Triple cheers to you, my friend! It is indeed a sorry state of affairs when we are more humane to our dogs than we are to our fellow men.

It is pretty horrible to “help” someone to die by starving to her death, and yet it is called a “humane” method. What a twisted mind some people have.

Mr. Spock,

Where in this brief discussion did you come up with “die by starving to her death”???

No one suggested the act or called it humane. You alone appear to have a twisted mind at the moment. And to think I gave you credit for having a good mind.

You have just proven other opinions about you correct (in the hell thread) and now I must also agree. You are off base here and it appears you are attempting to start some crazy debate. Shame on you.

 

[Rascalking]

Even though I agree with the churches teaching on assisted suicide, it’s one of the very few church teachings that makes me squirm. If someone is in horrific pain and with each breath is in agony, your sick if you want to prolong their pain.

Again, just to be clear, I agree with the church teaching that assisted suicide is wrong, very much so-I’m worried that it might be a slippery slope that turns leads to killing people who have chicken pox.

However, after just watching a death in my friends family through agonizing means-I can certainly see the point of the pro-assisted suicide side.

 

[Spock]

Where in this brief discussion did you come up with “die by starving to her death”???

The accepted method is to remove the life support system from a terminally ill patient, when there is a living will to stipulate it. (I have one, of course.) This means to withhold the food and the drink (while possibly administering some pain-killing medication) and allow the person to die “naturally”. I don’t have any information about the church opposing this method. If you have it, please share it with us.

I call this method cruel and inhumane. A much more humane method is to give a lethal dose of medication to spare the possible suffering. That is all. I don’t see anything here that I should be ashamed about.

 

[PAboy57]

Even though I agree with the churches teaching on assisted suicide, it’s one of the very few church teachings that makes me squirm. If someone is in horrific pain and with each breath is in agony, your sick if you want to prolong their pain.

Again, just to be clear, I agree with the church teaching that assisted suicide is wrong, very much so-I’m worried that it might be a slippery slope that turns leads to killing people who have chicken pox.

However, after just watching a death in my friends family through agonizing means-I can certainly see the point of the pro-assisted suicide side.

I also just watched a close friend just die from mesothelioma. Had he gone the assisted suicide route he may have missed being annointed 8 days before death while I’m making an educated guess that his soul truly needed. At the end he was given sufficient meds to very much ease the pain. Waiting is most difficult without a doubt for everyone.

John Paul II continued to teach us as I believe he died as a true Catholic should from the reports. I would hope and pray that we all can leave this life as God intended for each individual.

Making the transition from this world to the next may be an event, when the soul is prepared properly, that we won’t want to miss – my speculation. It may also reduce time in Purgatory which may be far worse on the individual which is something to faithfully consider.

 

[catholicpublish]

The church teaches it is. I tend to agree since I want to be kept alive at all costs!

 

[PAboy57]

The accepted method is to remove the life support system from a terminally ill patient, when there is a living will to stipulate it. (I have one, of course.) This means to withhold the food and the drink (while possibly administering some pain-killing medication) and allow the person to die “naturally”. I don’t have any information about the church opposing this method. If you have it, please share it with us.

I call this method cruel and inhumane. A much more humane method is to give a lethal dose of medication to spare the possible suffering. That is all. I don’t see anything here that I should be ashamed about.

I would suggest you revise your living will. Here is Catholic teaching and you may read at your convenience. ewtn.com/expert/answers/end_of_life_decisions.htm

Remember the body prepares for death by shutting down the organs and the ability to even process food and water. I will only share this part of the document for your quick review addressing food, etc and the bolded areas are mine.

Q. Does this also apply to artificially provided nutrition and hydration?

A. Yes, when the moral conditions noted above are met. We must, therefore, ask the question “will the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration allow the person to die, or kill the person?” When it will allow a person to die from an underlying condition, rather than unnecessarily prolonging their suffering, it may be removed. So, for example, in the last hours, even days, of a cancer patient’s life, or if a sick person’s body is no longer able to process food and water, there is no moral obligation to provide nutrition and hydration. The patient will die of their disease or their organ failure before starvation or dehydration could kill them.

However, when the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration is intended to kill the person, or will be the immediate and direct cause of doing so, quite apart from any disease or failure of their bodies, then to withdraw food and water would be an act of euthanasia, a grave sin against the natural law and the law of God.

I hope this helps you in your decision making after reading the entire document.

 

[Waiting]

I also just watched a close friend just die from mesothelioma. Had he gone the assisted suicide route he may have missed being annointed 8 days before death while I’m making an educated guess that his soul truly needed. At the end he was given sufficient meds to very much ease the pain. Waiting is most difficult without a doubt for everyone.

John Paul II continued to teach us as I believe he died as a true Catholic should from the reports. I would hope and pray that we all can leave this life as God intended for each individual.

Making the transition from this world to the next may be an event, when the soul is prepared properly, that we won’t want to miss – my speculation. It may also reduce time in Purgatory which may be far worse on the individual which is something to faithfully consider.

We can’t play God with a human life. Sometimes if the person suffering understands that his/her sufferings are actually being used by God to do some good, the suffering is lessened. I’ve witnessed this, as I explained in another thread. When others around a dying woman could not answer her question of why God allowed her to suffer, I explained that God would use that suffering for some good, and when she saw Him, He would tell her what He did with it. She smiled and nodded. Even in dying she was contributing to God’s work on Earth. It gave meaning to her misery, and she accepted it gratefully.

 

[PAboy57]

We can’t play God with a human life. Sometimes if the person suffering understands that his/her sufferings are actually being used by God to do some good, the suffering is lessened. I’ve witnessed this, as I explained in another thread. When others around a dying woman could not answer her question of why God allowed her to suffer, I explained that God would use that suffering for some good, and when she saw Him, He would tell her what He did with it. She smiled and nodded. Even in dying she was contributing to God’s work on Earth. It gave meaning to her misery, and she accepted it gratefully.

Redemptive Suffering comes to mind. It may be better to suffer here and immediately see God upon death rather than purification in Purgatory. We all will find out.

God Bless.

 

[JRKH]

Even though I agree with the churches teaching on assisted suicide, it’s one of the very few church teachings that makes me squirm. If someone is in horrific pain and with each breath is in agony, **your sick if you want to prolong their pain. **

Again, just to be clear, I agree with the church teaching that assisted suicide is wrong, very much so-I’m worried that it might be a slippery slope that turns leads to killing people who have chicken pox.

However, after just watching a death in my friends family through agonizing means-I can certainly see the point of the pro-assisted suicide side.

The bolded part above is key - The desire not to kill is not the same as the desire to prolong their pain. Not in the least.

The Church teaching allows for natural death. That is in God’s hands. It also allows for making the person as comfortable as possible including heavy medication in large doses - so long as the intent is not to kill.
We can even pray for an end to their suffering. What we cannot do is to actually end it by ending their life.

All that said, I do agree that this is one of those gray areas that can be a slippery slope, which is why I think the church is so adament in her teachings.

Peace
James

 

[Rascalking]

I know what JRKH and PABoy are saying-look, I get it. I even said I agree with the churches teaching!

It’s still heartbreaking to watch anyone suffer greatly and lose their dignity.

 

[Spock]

I hope this helps you in your decision making after reading the entire document.

I appreciate your effort of putting everything together. No, it does not change my mind a bit. I disagree with the concept that we are only “stewards” of our life, that God merely “leased us” our bodies, while retaining full ownership of it. If something is given as a “gift”, the giver relinquishes all control over the gift, and the receiver assumes the control.

It would be totally ridiculous to be given a “gift” - without our consent, demanding that we take care of it, and yet withholding control over its use.

Just think about it: according to this concept we should never say “my body”, we should say “the body which is really God’s property and which I am currently using”. No one says this, and no one thinks along those lines.

If there is human dignity, then it is our right to decide when to take the exit. It is most undignifying to wither away helplessly, to be in constant pain, to be a burden to others, to force others to participate in my struggle with life. I would not want that to happen to my loved ones, precisely because I love them. Life an death are not contradictory, life and senseless suffering are contradictory.

 

[catharina]

I do not support assisted suicide, but for the sake of debate; if life is extreme torment, then isn’t assisted suicide a merciful act?

I imagine a future where people with severe depression can have the option of going to a clinic and being put to sleep permanently. It will save resources and cut down on the population. Profit before people guys.

Assisted suicide is wrong in every case.
The Church has no doubt in stating this.

Mercy leads us to tend to the needs of the suffering.
It does not lend itself to killing the suffering.
Mercy killing (euthanasia) is an extreme measure of
eliminating a problem - the problem being the life of another.

 

[catharina]

As a matter of Church teaching - Yes assisted suicide is wrong in every case. Suicide is murder and murder is a sin. Assisting in suicide is assisting in murder and murder is a sin…I see no way around it.

As a matter of practical application and since we cannot here examine “every case” (including all possible permutations) we cannot definitively say it would be wrong in every case…Or to put it more correctly - while it would still be wrong, culpability might be lessened.

Peace
James

Yet the Church does state that it is wrong in every case.
I stand with Church Teaching and look for no permutations
or “lessening” of any culpability. Simply put: it is always wrong.

 

[catharina]

I also just watched a close friend just die from mesothelioma. Had he gone the assisted suicide route he may have missed being annointed 8 days before death while I’m making an educated guess that his soul truly needed. At the end he was given sufficient meds to very much ease the pain. Waiting is most difficult without a doubt for everyone.

John Paul II continued to teach us as I believe he died as a true Catholic should from the reports. I would hope and pray that we all can leave this life as God intended for each individual.

Making the transition from this world to the next may be an event, when the soul is prepared properly, that we won’t want to miss – my speculation. It may also reduce time in Purgatory which may be far worse on the individual which is something to faithfully consider.

Bolded above: that’s one point.

Another point is that the one suffering might be suffering
for the sins of the world, his family, his friends. Suffering
is sacrificial action for the holy; it is not in vain.