Is Assisted suicide wrong in every case?

[Rascalking]

Have people completely forgotten the role our suffering plays in salvation? While we do not want to see our loved ones in pain, suffering can bring us closer to God by uniting our suffering with the Cross.

As thrilling as it might be discuss the glory of suffering, please don’t tell that to anyone who is watching their loved ones suffer. You might experience suffering of your own if you do so.

 

[Brendan]

When you say that we do not have the “right”, I think you mean that God did not give us the “right” to do so. This is clearly not true. There are two exceptions: one is self-defense, and the other is a “just” war. If there are exceptions, then the rule is not absolute. Now you can rightfully say that the assisted suicide does not belong to these exceptions - and you would be correct.

But in each of those cases, we are prohibited in deliberately killing one who is innocent from wrong doing.
Such is the case in question, is it not. Where exactly did God give us a ‘right’ to kill anyone not directly attempting to harm us.

So you are correct, the rule is not absolute. It applies only in cases where the subject is attempting harm. And even then, is it still not a ‘right’ to kill.

In the case of self defense, or just war, the object is to protect oneself, not to kill the other.

If one can capture or disable the enemy, then any given ‘right’ to kill them is lost.

So no ‘right’ to kill exists, only that we are not held guilty when it happens in certain cirumstances.

 

[TimeisnearJEN]

I do not support assisted suicide, but for the sake of debate; if life is extreme torment, then isn’t assisted suicide a merciful act?

I imagine a future where people with severe depression can have the option of going to a clinic and being put to sleep permanently. It will save resources and cut down on the population. Profit before people guys.

I have always been wondering, if you ask God for forgiveness before you kill yourself, will he have mercy?

 

[JRKH]

As thrilling as it might be discuss the glory of suffering, please don’t tell that to anyone who is watching their loved ones suffer. You might experience suffering of your own if you do so.

Suffering, whether direct due to disease, or indirect - watching someone suffer remains suffering and unites us to Christ.

Peace
James

 

[Waiting]

How do you define “right”? “Right” means that someone in power grants the subordinate weak ones the permission to act in certain ways free of repercussions.

When you say that we do not have the “right”, I think you mean that God did not give us the “right” to do so. This is clearly not true. There are two exceptions: one is self-defense, and the other is a “just” war. If there are exceptions, then the rule is not absolute. Now you can rightfully say that the assisted suicide does not belong to these exceptions - and you would be correct.

This brings up the second problem. God does not speak to us. We don’t really know if there is a God at all. And we certainly cannot know what God’s views are, if he exists in the first place. I know you believe that God exists, and you also believe that the CC is the local authority for God. But that is simply your unsubstantiated belief, as far as I am concerned.

The whole difficulty here is your lack of faith. If you had faith then you would know that you can’t take a life. That is God’s right, only. Seeing things from your point of view, it is understandable why you feel as you do. You are trying to be kind. If you KNEW there was a God, you would know that as the author of life, only He can dictate when that life ends. In any other scenario, we are selfishly saying, “Thanks, but no thanks. Here’s your life back.” I was fortunate. While I had faith and followed God’s will to the best of my ability, God allowed me the privilege of actually hearing His voice. That occasion removed any possibility of my faith being in error – that I was only following what I had been taught. There is a God! Now I could even more confidently speak of Him as a real person. Why I received this privilege, I don’t know. It would be wonderful if everyone could share my experience. But, as Jesus said, “You believe because you see, Thomas. Blessed are they who do not see but believe.” Faith is a valuable treasure. Maybe some of us are here to confirm that.

 

[Waiting]

As thrilling as it might be discuss the glory of suffering, please don’t tell that to anyone who is watching their loved ones suffer. You might experience suffering of your own if you do so.

Not true. As I explained before, when I told a dying friend to give her pain to God, and that He would do some good with it, she smiled and nodded. It gave meaning to her pain. Her family was present, also. They were visibly relieved, as they couldn’t tell her why God allowed her pain.

 

[Rascalking]

Suffering, whether direct due to disease, or indirect - watching someone suffer remains suffering and unites us to Christ.

Peace
James

That’s all groovy, but there is a time and a place to share your opinion. If someone is dying and their family is in agony, don’t express that view to them at that point. It’s called tact.

 

[Rascalking]

Not true. As I explained before, when I told a dying friend to give her pain to God, and that He would do some good with it, she smiled and nodded. It gave meaning to her pain. Her family was present, also. They were visibly relieved, as they couldn’t tell her why God allowed her pain.

It’s actually quite true. Your situation was the exception. In the real world, If you said something about that in front of 90 percent of people, they’d politely ask you to leave-that would not be the right time to say that.

 

[catharina]

That’s all groovy, but there is a time and a place to share your opinion. If someone is dying and their family is in agony, don’t express that view to them at that point. It’s called tact.

James hasn’t said that he does that.
This is a public forum to express views.
He is expressing his views HERE.
How can that be a problem for you?

 

[Rascalking]

James hasn’t said that he does that.
This is a public forum to express views.
He is expressing his views HERE.
How can that be a problem for you?

What are you? His guard dog? That’s so cool!

Relax, I wasn’t insulting the man. I’m expressing MY views here too. It’s no problem to me at all.

 

[catharina]

What are you? His guard dog? That’s so cool!

Relax, I wasn’t insulting the man. I’m expressing MY views here too. It’s no problem to me at all.

I don’t know the man at all.
Funny you would imagine otherwise.

Your earlier post-intro “that’s all groovy but”
seems a bit over-the-top but again
that’s my opinion. Guess you like groovy talk.
Like “that’s so cool.”

Whatever.



Ps - figure you do mean this, huh?

**Be polite, be funny, and be nice! **

 

[Rascalking]

I don’t know the man at all.
Funny you would imagine otherwise.

Your earlier post-intro “that’s all groovy but”
seems a bit over-the-top but again
that’s my opinion. Guess you like groovy talk.
Like “that’s so cool.”

Whatever.

I imagine otherwise because your defense of him. I thought it was sweet. Very noble of you.

Cheers.

 

[catharina]

I imagine otherwise because your defense of him. I thought it was sweet. Very noble of you.

Cheers.

Of course, imagine as you will.
Not noble - just pointing out the inconsistency of
correcting someone for what he didn’t say.

 

[Rascalking]

Of course, imagine as you will.
Not noble - just pointing out the inconsistency of
correcting someone for what he didn’t say.

I never said he DID say anything like that. I simply said there is a time and place to talk about suffering/redemption!

 

[JRKH]

Play nice everyone…

I took no insult from the Rascal so - no harm no foul.

Cat - thanks for the support.

Rascal - I understand better what you are trying to say about being careful when we say things. Those who are under great stress may not hear what we say in the way that we intend it. I agree - tact is very important.
Often times the best thing we can do is simply be there to listen, offer prayer, help in any way we can from cooking to housework to shopping to ----whatever the family needs…

But of course this thread is not really about a specific case but is more of an academic nature so we don’t have to be so “tactful” here…

Peace
James

 

[catharina]

Play nice everyone…

I took no insult from the Rascal so - no harm no foul.

Cat - thanks for the support.

Rascal - I understand better what you are trying to say about being careful when we say things. Those who are under great stress may not hear what we say in the way that we intend it. I agree - tact is very important.
Often times the best thing we can do is simply be there to listen, offer prayer, help in any way we can from cooking to housework to shopping to ----whatever the family needs…

But of course this thread is not really about a specific case but is more of an academic nature so we don’t have to be so “tactful” here…

Peace
James

I agree that a supportive point of view is the very best
we can bring to the sufferin and the family of one suffering.

To be loving, to be supportive, to be compassionate
is the sum total as I see it. In the case of a Catholic dying,
I’d feel free to ask if I might call a priest to visit the patient.

 

[catharina]

I never said he DID say anything like that. I simply said there is a time and place to talk about suffering/redemption!

I can’t imagine that any poster would disagree with that.
Has anyone disagreed? If so, I missed it.

 

[Waiting]

It’s actually quite true. Your situation was the exception. In the real world, If you said something about that in front of 90 percent of people, they’d politely ask you to leave-that would not be the right time to say that.

Again, not true. When I spoke to my dying friend, her family had each tried to answer her when she asked why God allowed her to suffer. They looked miserable and lost for words. I was not part of the family, so I said nothing until each had responded to her. Then I told her to give her pain to God and He would do some good with it. It made her happy. Much of our pain is increased by worry and dwelling on it. I remember when I suffered from food poisoning and was wishing I were dead, it dawned on me that I had a great chance to do some good. I couldn’t change the pain and other distress, but I remember smiling and thinking how wonderful that this wasn’t just a waste. I offered it to the Lord for however He wished to use it. There’s no way I would wish to live that illness over, but it did help to know that some good came from it.

 

[FCEGM]

Even though I agree with the churches teaching on assisted suicide, it’s one of the very few church teachings that makes me squirm. If someone is in horrific pain and with each breath is in agony, your sick if you want to prolong their pain.

Again, just to be clear, I agree with the church teaching that assisted suicide is wrong, very much so-I’m worried that it might be a slippery slope that turns leads to killing people who have chicken pox.

However, after just watching a death in my friends family through agonizing means-I can certainly see the point of the pro-assisted suicide side.

That side often presumes that the one enduring such pain will certainly go on to a better place; they don’t consider that this participation in the Cross of Christ is precisely what is salvific for this person. Neither do they consider that worse might be in store and yet they want to hasten that person on to his or her judgment.

 

[catharina]

That side often presumes that the one enduring such pain will certainly go on to a better place; they don’t consider that this participation in the Cross of Christ is precisely what is salvific for this person. Neither do they consider that worse might be in store and yet they want to hasten that person on to his or her judgment.

MUST ADD:

This kind of suffering can be redemptive for others too
through the intent of the one who is suffering. It’s not
a simple matter of the suffering being redemptive for
the one who is suffering and it could be judgmental
to think that. In the Body of Christ, the suffering of one
can and does benefit all.