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Ivornotion
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Having worked with one he said he believes in nothing, interesting though since God created the world out of what he believes in,------- nothing.
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AnAtheist
Guest
So far, so good.
But atheists don’t have specific rituals for example, which are usually connected with a religion.
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abcdefg
Guest
You make this comment because you already assume atheism isn’t a religion. it’s like saying atheism isn’t a religion because atheism isn’t a religion.
rituals dedicated to deity/deities ARE usually connected with theism religions but that’s not a necessary to distinguish religion from religion or theism from atheism. three examples
- one who holds Catholic believes but doesn’t pray or go to church for some reason doesn’t disqualify him as a Catholic.
- Byzantine Catholic and Roman Catholic are different in how rites are performed but they’re the same religion: Catholic because they share the same set of believes.
- Most Christians think there’re 7 sacraments(the number of Catholics is far larger than that of Protestants) which doesn’t make 2-sacrament Protestants non-Christians
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Gilbert_Keith
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AnAtheist
But atheists don’t have specific rituals for example, which are usually connected with a religion.
Ah, but they do! You, for example, make a daily visit to Catholic Answers (926 so far). And while here, you ritualistically trot out your objections to religion and your so-called proofs that God does not exist.
You do not see these visits as rituals, but they are as regular as the daily Mass and are dedicated to the worship of Self since there is nothing higher than the Self to worship in the atheist’s religion.
Moreover, Einstein in a letter to a friend referred to the Church of Atheism. What do you suppose he meant … and do you think he was talking nonsense?
But atheists don’t have specific rituals for example, which are usually connected with a religion.
Ah, but they do! You, for example, make a daily visit to Catholic Answers (926 so far). And while here, you ritualistically trot out your objections to religion and your so-called proofs that God does not exist.
You do not see these visits as rituals, but they are as regular as the daily Mass and are dedicated to the worship of Self since there is nothing higher than the Self to worship in the atheist’s religion.
Moreover, Einstein in a letter to a friend referred to the Church of Atheism. What do you suppose he meant … and do you think he was talking nonsense?
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AnAtheist
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Gilbert Keith:
Guilty as charged, but is that a specific atheistic ritual? No, it isn’t, it is merely a personal ritual, it is neither canonised nor organised.
As an ironical remark, it’s pretty much ok. Guess, it has to be read in context. Taken literally it’s nonsense of course. Hey, just like the Bible…
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AnAtheist
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I made this comment to show that atheism lacks some important things belonging to religions. Therefore it is very much ok to say, atheism is not a religion, at least not an organised religion, as it has no canonised prayer, rules, hierarchies, rituals, whatever.
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Gilbert_Keith
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AnAtheist
Taken literally it’s nonsense of course. Hey, just like the Bible…
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Another ritualistic atheist prayer.
Taken literally it’s nonsense of course. Hey, just like the Bible…
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Another ritualistic atheist prayer.
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abcdefg
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you can’t prove rites are important in religion without assuming atheism isn’t a religion first.
Someone also can say 7 sacraments are important in Christianity thus Protestants aren’t Christians. Do you agree with this?
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AnAtheist
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Show me one religion (really believing in soemthing divine) without rituals.
And please don’t twist logic like this.
The syllogism is:
Rituals are an essential part of religion.
Catholic sacraments are rituals.
Therefore → Catholicism is a religion.
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Chris_LaRock
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The atheist is exercising some measure of faith when they claim that this perfectly arranged universe had no creator. I think this qualifies it to be some form of religion.
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WanderAimlessly
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john_doran
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but he’s not twisting it: he’s simply pointing out that you’re merely stipulating your major premise, and that it would be equally possible to construct a different syllogism using a different premise as a foundation:
the 7 sacraments are essential to christianity
protestant religions do not have 7 sacraments
therefore protestant religions are not christian
why do you think that rituals are essential to a religion?
and if you think this, then what’s the use of the descriptor “organised” in “organised religion”? presumably if a religion can be “organized”, it can be meaningfully disorganized, and what does that mean if not that it’s optional whether or not anyone does any particular ceremonial or ritualistic worship?
but be that as it may - for something to be a “religion”, does it have to prescribe a universal set of rituals that must be practiced by its faithful? what if people deviate from those rituals and either omit or add rituals of their own?
do you really believe that if, say, every catholic on earth suddenly decided to stop performing catholic rituals but still believed all of essential catholic doctrine (including that they were sinning by not performing some of the rituals), that catholicism would cease being a religion?
i think the real question being asked in this thread is whether or not atheism is an expression of the religious impulse…
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Gilbert_Keith
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john doran
i think the real question being asked in this thread is whether or not atheism is an expression of the religious impulse…
Yes, I think atheism is that.
Atheism is a kind of mystical faith in, and submission to, the power and virtue of a meaningless, uncreated, mindless god called UNIVERSE which just is and creates without knowing what or why or when or how it can be so creative.
There most definitely are rituals for atheism. For examples, just as the Catholic trudges daily to Mass to be nourished in his faith, AnAtheist trudges daily to Catholic Answers to be nourished in his faith that his Universe is greater than our God.
i think the real question being asked in this thread is whether or not atheism is an expression of the religious impulse…
Yes, I think atheism is that.
Atheism is a kind of mystical faith in, and submission to, the power and virtue of a meaningless, uncreated, mindless god called UNIVERSE which just is and creates without knowing what or why or when or how it can be so creative.
There most definitely are rituals for atheism. For examples, just as the Catholic trudges daily to Mass to be nourished in his faith, AnAtheist trudges daily to Catholic Answers to be nourished in his faith that his Universe is greater than our God.
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Shadowcry
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Is this supposed to be sarcastic, It is a really ridiculous statement.
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AnAtheist
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john doran:
How do you identify a colour? Meaning, what is a colour? Something you can see? Something that is connected to emitting light of a certain wavelength? Is “black” a colour then?
Atheism does not fit the common parameters of a religion. Rituals are one of them.
How do you identify a religion? By what signs? I say, rituals are an a good sign to identify a religion.
How do you identify a colour? Meaning, what is a colour? Something you can see? Something that is connected to emitting light of a certain wavelength? Is “black” a colour then?
Atheism does not fit the common parameters of a religion. Rituals are one of them.
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AnAtheist
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I just had another thought.
What kind of religion might Atheism be then?
It is like asking “what kind of meat do vegetarians eat?”
Veggie says: We don’t eat meat at all.
Others say: But you eat.
Veggie: Yes, but not meat.
Others: Some of you eat eggs. Eggs grow into animals. See, you eat meat of some sort.
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abcdefg
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everyone who is sane has a religion. as everyone has an understanding of deity/deities.
color is material’s pattern of reflecting light. black means neither reflect nor transparent. while colorless means material is transparent. in chemistry colorless is considered a color.
Each human has 10 fingers, but John has 9, does that mean he’s not a human?
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abcdefg
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Atheism fits in the category of godless religion.
Atheism involves understanding of deity/deities so it’s a religion and atheists can’t prove it using scientific method
It’s not like asking “what kind of meat do vegetarians eat?” to me as I believe atheism is a religion
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AnAtheist
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Ok, you believe that, but most Atheists don’t.
It is like Mary worship. To Catholics it is veneration, to Protestant fundis it is idolatry, to me it is just another kind of religous worship.
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john_doran
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but light is an independently existing thing - a piece of the universe’s furniture, if you will. religion is a human behaviour - an act. so the criteria of identity will be different.
identifying “religion” will be like identifying “recreation”, or “learning” - it is a question of motives and desires rather than size or shape or weight.
assuming, arguendo, that you’re right, atheism may still be an expression of the same set of desires or inclinations as those of which garden-variety religions are an expression.
obviously the point is not to suggest that all atheists are doing what church-goers do when they go to church any more than it is to suggest that all theists are necessarily religious. the point is rather that some atheists are fulfilling the same drive that i and others like me are fulfilling when we “do” religion…
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