is attending a Sunday/Saturday MASS mandatory?

[decn2b]

Greeings pat,

I am curious as to where you place the Authority of the faith?

Do you place it in what YOU believe? Or do you place the Authority in the Magesterium?

The “knife” you talk about isnt held by a group of Grumpy old men wearing red zuchettos. To me it sounds like you believe that the customs, dogmas, traditions and “rules” are man made. The Catholic church doesn’t believe that. Do you?

When I was 4 years old I got ahold of a very large chocolate Easter bunny. My mom caught me with it. I wanted to eat the whole thing. My mom told me I couldnt becuase it would make me sick. I prostested and refused to believe her, insisting that it wouldn’t make me sick. …Similar is the way with the Church. A person who views the knife being held to their throat is in reality holding the knife to their own throat. We are bound to view the Church similarly as a mother who KNOWS what is best for us. THere are times that we don’t like it…but as the scriptures say…Master, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way Jesus answers the questioin with letting us know that he is the way the truth and the light and curiously he also mentions keeping the commandments in this same discourse. Interestingly one of the commandments deals with the sabbath. The leaders of our church (men in red zuchettos) are not holding a knife to anyones throat. However I believe some of us are holding guns and the red zuchetto wearers are simply the messengers. Are some of us using those guns and shooting the messengers?

 

[Hellisreal]

I have looked at all these posts and I am wondering what is going on here.

Maria G, How are you? Nice to meet you, I am new here.

I have never seen a better explaination of the subject before and if you don’t mind, I am going to use your exact words to help my child if the need ever arises to expalin this clearly! I hope, that day will never come though

Let God’s will be done is how I see it. He wills it, I say I must do it.

The Church is not our enemy its our rock and guidance.

Jesus is present in the Eucharist. Wow. Why even think about missing that?
Even if one can not recieve Him all the more reason to be there humbly praying to be with Him as soon as possible!

Nice posts Maria.

Thank you for the terrific explaination.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Going to Church on the “Sabbath” is a commandment that the Church has no right to ever change. They could change the definition of which DAY was to be kept Holy, and the day of the resurrection of our Lord is appropriate to do so, but the Church does not have the power to change a commandment given by God. I don’t think you are going to argue that any of the other commandment can or even should be changed so why do you blame the Church for the one about the Sabbath?

Then why did the Church also add holy days of obligation outside of the Sabbath, and where does the 10 commandments support such a thing?

Fact is, back in the 18th century England, the Church had 34 days of obligation.

If you read about it, it seemed to have more to do with raising money for the Church, than helping people achieve holiness. For a monetary offering on these days was also mandated.

As I’ve said before, a person of faith will go to Mass as often as possible, and the mandate by the Church is almost meaningless to them.

Jim
Jim

 

[decn2b]

Then why did the Church also add holy days of obligation outside of the Sabbath, and where does the 10 commandments support such a thing?

Fact is, back in the 18th century England, the Church had 34 days of obligation.

If you read about it, it seemed to have more to do with raising money for the Church, than helping people achieve holiness. For a monetary offering on these days was also mandated.

As I’ve said before, a person of faith will go to Mass as often as possible, and the mandate by the Church is almost meaningless to them.

Jim
Jim

 

[decn2b]

Then why did the Church also add holy days of obligation outside of the Sabbath, and where does the 10 commandments support such a thing?

Fact is, back in the 18th century England, the Church had 34 days of obligation.

If you read about it, it seemed to have more to do with raising money for the Church, than helping people achieve holiness. For a monetary offering on these days was also mandated.

As I’ve said before, a person of faith will go to Mass as often as possible, and the mandate by the Church is almost meaningless to them.

Jim
Jim

Jim,

Wouldn’t it be easier for you to just state, " I Jim deny the Catholic Church’s teaching on Authority." With stating that you are essentially denying everything about the Catholic Church. It is a domino effect.

In summary, all truth is upheld by the church. 1 Tim 3:15. THat bible verse doesn’t say “JIM is the pillar and foundation of truth.”

Like mentioned by many in previous posts. The only option we have is to believe in where Authority resides. Does it reside in you and me or does it reside in the Church. If its you and me then there are billions upon billions of truths in this world. And Jesus was lying about being the only way. Wow what a waste of time for Jesus to create an impractical set of rules for us to follow…when there are in reality many truths. I hope you don’t believe that way…do you?

 

[jmcrae]

Then why did the Church also add holy days of obligation outside of the Sabbath, and where does the 10 commandments support such a thing?

The Ten Commandments isn’t the whole of the Bible. The Jews also had Holy Days of Obligation during the year when they had to go to the Temple - Passover, Pentecost, Rosh Hashanna, Yom Kippur, Tabernacles, Hanukkah, and Purim - which didn’t always fall on their weekly Sabbath days.

We simply continue on in the same tradition that they gave to us.

Fact is, back in the 18th century England, the Church had 34 days of obligation.

In Canada, we only have two. What does the number have to do with anything.

If you read about it, it seemed to have more to do with raising money for the Church, than helping people achieve holiness. For a monetary offering on these days was also mandated.

To the best of my knowledge, the Church doesn’t require that we give money every time we go to Mass.

As I’ve said before, a person of faith will go to Mass as often as possible, and the mandate by the Church is almost meaningless to them.

That’s the ideal situation, of course, but that doesn’t mean that the rest of us shouldn’t be required to attend, too.

 

[LilyM]

Then why did the Church also add holy days of obligation outside of the Sabbath, and where does the 10 commandments support such a thing?

Fact is, back in the 18th century England, the Church had 34 days of obligation.

If you read about it, it seemed to have more to do with raising money for the Church, than helping people achieve holiness. For a monetary offering on these days was also mandated.

As I’ve said before, a person of faith will go to Mass as often as possible, and the mandate by the Church is almost meaningless to them.

Jim
Jim

For starters, Jim, the Jewish people ALSO had feasts and holy days which fell outside of their regular sabbaths (Passover, Hanukkah, Yom Kippur. At least a few others, but they’re all there in the OT if you want to look 'em up)

Remember Jesus and his parents going to Jerusalem to celebrate Passover? I doubt they went there just for fun, they did so because Temple attendance would’ve been mandatory. If memory serves there were at least a couple of the feasts each year where similarly this was the case.

Sounds an awful lot like Holy Days of Obligation to me.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Wouldn’t it be easier for you to just state, " I Jim deny the Catholic Church’s teaching on Authority." With stating that you are essentially denying everything about the Catholic Church. It is a domino effect.

Of course it wouldn’t be me saying this, but you, attempting to put words in my mouth.

Yes, the Church is the authority on teaching. However, it doesn’t mean the Church hasn’t made errors, and the errors that were made, were outside of the scope of the Gospel.

Jim

 

[patg]

I am curious as to where you place the Authority of the faith? Do you place it in what YOU believe? Or do you place the Authority in the Magesterium?

Well first, I agree with the poster who said: “… a person of faith will go to Mass as often as possible, and the mandate by the Church is almost meaningless to them.”

On the other hand, do you honestly believe that God would torture a person for all eternity if they attended mass six days a week most of their lives but skipped a few Sundays? Is this the loving “Father” image Jesus would have us believe in?

The “knife” you talk about isnt held by a group of Grumpy old men wearing red zuchettos. To me it sounds like you believe that the customs, dogmas, traditions and “rules” are man made.

They certainly are, except for the dogmas and a few of the “rules”.

The Catholic church doesn’t believe that.

Yes it does (except for the dogmas and a few of the “rules”.)

Do you?

Yes (except for the dogmas and a few of the “rules”.)

 

[decn2b]

Of course it wouldn’t be me saying this, but you, attempting to put words in my mouth.

Yes, the Church is the authority on teaching. However, it doesn’t mean the Church hasn’t made errors, and the errors that were made, were outside of the scope of the Gospel.

Jim

SO Jim, in YOUR word, is the church in error in regards to Sunday Obligation? (note: it is a yes or no question)

 

[decn2b]

On the other hand, do you honestly believe that God would torture a person for all eternity if they attended mass six days a week most of their lives but skipped a few Sundays?

Do you believe the church is wrong on that issue then? If so could you please point me to where you get your Authority to dproclaim the church is incorrect on the Sunday obligation?

They certainly are, except for the dogmas and a few of the “rules”.

Yes it does (except for the dogmas and a few of the “rules”.)
Yes (except for the dogmas and a few of the “rules”.)

Yes or no is Sunday Obligation a dogma of the church?
Hint:To sum up, referring to the First Precept of the Church, which is nothing more than an elaboration of the Third Commandment, is that Catholics are bound to assist at Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation. This obligation is binding upon pain of mortal sin; to deliberately fail to fulfill the Sunday Obligation is to sin gravely, and requires the absolution of the Sacrament of Confession.

I underlined bound. Are you familiar with the scriptural inference with the first precept of the church?

Here is the bible passage that the word BOUND is tied to

Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Do you disagree with the first Precept of the church?

yet another yes or no question.

Well first, I agree with the poster who said: “… a person of faith will go to Mass as often as possible, and the mandate by the Church is almost meaningless to them”

Is the mandate to help the poor and meek meaningless if a person gets nothing out of it performing the task? Does that mean they should just skip out on helping their neighbor if they don’t feel like it? Or the task is meaningless to them?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

SO Jim, in YOUR word, is the church in error in regards to Sunday Obligation? (note: it is a yes or no question)

In calling it a mortal sin if one doesn’t attend Mass, Yes.

Jim

 

[decn2b]

In calling it a mortal sin if one doesn’t attend Mass, Yes.

Jim

Ok great we are making headway here.

Jim could you please address to the readers here in this forum exactly where you get your authority to proclaim the church in error on this subject.

SInce that will be a quick answer, can I ask you if the church is in error on transubstatiation?

Confession?
Divine Revelation?
Immaculate Conception?
The Divinity of CHrist?
The existance of Hell?
CONTRACEPTION?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Ok great we are making headway here.

Jim could you please address to the readers here in this forum exactly where you get your authority to proclaim the church in error on this subject.

SInce that will be a quick answer, can I ask you if the church is in error on transubstatiation?

Confession?
Divine Revelation?
Immaculate Conception?
The Divinity of CHrist?
The existance of Hell?
CONTRACEPTION?

Your going off on a tengent. I never said I had the authority. I was asked to state my opinion on the particular issue of the Church’s teaching that it is a mortal sin not to attend Mass on Sunday.

I stated that my opinion is that they are in error, in placing this mandate on people. As I said earlier in my post, people of faith, don’t need this mandate placed on them, because we go to Mass as often as we can anyway.

Also, by stating my opinion on this issue, it doesn’t mean that I don’t accept the authority of the Church, or that I don’t follow their teaching. I merely state, that I think they are wrong on this issue, or probably better stated, wrong in how it is taught.

Jim

 

[MariaG]

I have looked at all these posts and I am wondering what is going on here.

Maria G, How are you? Nice to meet you, I am new here.

I have never seen a better explaination of the subject before and if you don’t mind, I am going to use your exact words to help my child if the need ever arises to expalin this clearly! I hope, that day will never come though

Let God’s will be done is how I see it. He wills it, I say I must do it.

The Church is not our enemy its our rock and guidance.

Jesus is present in the Eucharist. Wow. Why even think about missing that?
Even if one can not recieve Him all the more reason to be there humbly praying to be with Him as soon as possible!

Nice posts Maria.

Thank you for the terrific explaination.

Welcome to the forums

Thank you for the kind words

As for “what is going on here” Some do not wish to submit to the authority of the Catholic Church which Christ placed over them.

 

[MariaG]

Then why did the Church also add holy days of obligation outside of the Sabbath, and where does the 10 commandments support such a thing?

Fact is, back in the 18th century England, the Church had 34 days of obligation.

If you read about it, it seemed to have more to do with raising money for the Church, than helping people achieve holiness. For a monetary offering on these days was also mandated.

As I’ve said before, a person of faith will go to Mass as often as possible, and the mandate by the Church is almost meaningless to them.

Jim
Jim

Respectfully Jim, you are changing the argument and mixing subjects. The issue of whether or not the Church has the right to make ADDITIONAL Holy Days of Obligation is separate from the fact that GOD made the original Holy Day of Obligation, the Sabbath, not the Church.

So the first issue, is the Church threatening people and holding a knife to their throat by telling them it is a mortal sin to miss Mass is separated from whether or not the Church has the right to ADD days that one “must” go to.

The Church has no right to say that it is okay to murder, and never will.

The Church has no right to say adultery is okay and never will.

The Church has no right to say we can worship idols and never will (contrary to anti-Catholic rhetoric )

Jesus told us He did not come to abolish the law (the commandments) but to fulfill it, see :bible1: Matthew 5:17.

As such, the Church cannot say, “Well Jesus did not really mean that, let’s rewrite the Ten commandments” God Commands us to keep the Sabbath Holy, and the Church let’s us know that God has not changed and it STILL is a mortal sin to do so, as it always has been.

Now as to the second issue, does the Church have the right to ADD to the Holy Days of Obligation. Before Jesus gave the authority to Peter we can see what Jesus’ opinion is of the authority of the pharisees. He tells us to do what they tell you to for they “sit in the seat of Moses”. But don’t do what they do for they are hypocrites. (Basically they don’t practice what they preach). see :bible1:Matthew 23:2

As has already been pointed out, the Jews, (those who sit in the seat of Moses) did have “extra” Holy days of obligation. Clearly, they had the “authority” to require them.

As the Jews had the authority, so now does the Catholic Church have the authority to make new Holy Days of obligation. And if we look at what those days are, they all will bring us closer to Christ if we really look into what the day is all about. Did corrupt people possibly institute these days as a way to collect more money? Possibly, I don’t know nor do I care. Whether or not their actions are corrupt does not mitigate my responsibility to “do what they tell me to”.

But what is the day supposed to be all about? IF one looks at the day, we can see that one will be drawn closer to Christ IF one allows the grace of God to touch our hearts.

The closer one gets to God, the less one has to be reminded of the “rules”. But the Church would be derelict in Her duty if she failed to tell Christ’s followers what their obligations are.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[decn2b]

Also, by stating my opinion on this issue, it doesn’t mean that I don’t accept the authority of the Church, or that I don’t follow their teaching. I merely state, that I think they are wrong on this issue, or probably better stated, wrong in how it is taught.

Jim

Jim,

The orginal poster who started this thread came to see what the churches teaching on Sunday obligation is. Not Jims opinion.

Could you explain to me how in the world can you say that you believe in the church’s Authority but have it in your opinion that the church is in error on an issue. An issue so important that it is listed as the FIRST PRECEPT of the the faith.

 

[MariaG]

On the other hand, do you honestly believe that God would torture a person for all eternity if they attended mass six days a week most of their lives but skipped a few Sundays? Is this the loving “Father” image Jesus would have us believe in?

The Churches job is to teach everyone that GOD has declared to missing the Sabbath is a mortal sin, comparable to murder.

So what you are saying is, Do you honestly believe God would torture a person for eternity for killing just a few people?

God was the one who puts keeping the Sabbath Holy on the same level as Murder. The Church is just trying to make sure that relativism does not make light of it and understands the gravity of missing Mass is the same as killing someone.

 

[MariaG]

I was asked to state my opinion on the particular issue of the Church’s teaching that it is a mortal sin not to attend Mass on Sunday.

I stated that my opinion is that they are in error, in placing this mandate on people. As I said earlier in my post, people of faith, don’t need this mandate placed on them, because we go to Mass as often as we can anyway.

Also, by stating my opinion on this issue, it doesn’t mean that I don’t accept the authority of the Church, or that I don’t follow their teaching. I merely state, that I think they are wrong on this issue, or probably better stated, wrong in how it is taught.

Jim

Respectfully Jim, this mandate wasn’t placed on they people by the Church, but by God.

Now, in my opinion, you CAN argue (although I won’t agree with you ) whether or not the Church was in error to place ADDITIONAL holy Days of Obligation on people.

But God was the originator of the Sabbath obligation. Right there next to murder. Big stuff that the Church does not have the right to declare invalid.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Sheeniac]

Something I think is missing is the stress on obedience that came from the apolostic times - obedience to God, his commandments, and his Church. You may not like something or even agree with something, but one is called to be obedient.