Is Bible Corrupted By Human, Did God Knew That It Going To Happened

[sedonaman]

…
Why do some people need to find corruption in others to justify themselves? I submit that it is because they are unsure.
…

Mohammed admitted that he performed no miracles to validate that he had a message from God/Allah. In order to avoid the claim he was just making it up, he appealed to prior Judeo-Christian scriptures by claiming he was the last in the line of their prophets. The first question then becomes, “Why does anyone need Mohammed if those scriptures are valid?” Answer: they have become “corrupted.” But then, as abucs points out in post #60, how can Mohammed subsequently reject the scriptures he relies on for validation? The answer: God/Allah confuses those whom he wills to be confused" [or something like that].

When we start pulling the thread of any claim of Islam, we always seem to reach a similar dead end. So, yes, they are unsure.

Here biblestudying.net/islam1.html is a good [thought lengthy] analysis of Mohammed’s “inescapable dilemma.”

 

[Lilyflower]

It is human nature to exaggerate. If I witnessed an event, I might say 'there were 150-people involved when there was only 100. Someone else might take up my story and claim there were 250-witnesses etc etc so it is easy to see how a simple number of 100 might grow to 1000. But that does not prove the event never happened, only that the numbers claimed were a bit suspect.

So too witness testimony to Biblical events: The numbers claimed might be a bit exagerated but that does not prove the event did not take place.

What we can be sure of is the facts. It seems to me the facts of Christ’s suffering, death and resurrection is recorded in such a way that ‘for me’ I have ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT the events took place.

In fact the Muslim assertion that ‘the wrong man was arrested’ instead of Christ, is refuted by Christ’s OWN words: ‘Who is it you want?’ Jn 18:4, they replied: ‘Jesus of Nazareth!’ ‘I am He!’ Jn 18: The text goes on that they again asked and again He repeated. When Peter drew his sword and cut off the high priests servants ear, Christ said: ‘put your sword away am I not to drink the cup the Father has given me?’ Jn 18:11

Now that sounds to me like they not only had the right man but the Right Man made it absolutely clear who He was. So how can the Koran say 'it was dark so they didn’t recognise Him and arrested the WRONG man!

If it wasn’t so serious, it would be laughable that anyone could suggest such an absurdity.
But the Muslims insist to this day that in the darkness, they arrested the wrong man!

Blessings and peace.

 

[sedonaman]

…
In fact the Muslim assertion that ‘the wrong man was arrested’ instead of Christ, is refuted by Christ’s OWN words:
…So how can the Koran say 'it was dark so they didn’t recognise Him and arrested the WRONG man!

If it wasn’t so serious, it would be laughable that anyone could suggest such an absurdity.
But the Muslims insist to this day that in the darkness, they arrested the wrong man!
…

There is a reason Muslims are so adamant that Christ was not crucified, and I believe it is because if they ever admitted that He was, Islam as a religion would collapse. Here is a good explanation.

 

[planten]

So too witness testimony to Biblical events: The numbers claimed might be a bit exagerated but that does not prove the event did not take place.

What we can be sure of is the facts. It seems to me the facts of Christ’s suffering, death and resurrection is recorded in such a way that ‘for me’ I have ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT the events took place.

In fact the Muslim assertion that ‘the wrong man was arrested’ instead of Christ, is refuted by Christ’s OWN words: ‘Who is it you want?’ Jn 18:4, they replied: ‘Jesus of Nazareth!’ ‘I am He!’ Jn 18: The text goes on that they again asked and again He repeated. When Peter drew his sword and cut off the high priests servants ear, Christ said: ‘put your sword away am I not to drink the cup the Father has given me?’ Jn 18:11

Now that sounds to me like they not only had the right man but the Right Man made it absolutely clear who He was. So how can the Koran say 'it was dark so they didn’t recognise Him and arrested the WRONG man!

If it wasn’t so serious, it would be laughable that anyone could suggest such an absurdity.
But the Muslims insist to this day that in the darkness, they arrested the wrong man!

Blessings and peace.

**Dear Lilyflower, please know that Muslims do not believe it was the wrong man. The Quran does not say that the wrong man was arrested. I know some Muslims are being taught such a story. But it seems to be a christian story to mislead the Muslims.

I learnt that from a post of Elwill that it was originally found in the work of some christian saint. Please note that Quran agrees to the suffering of Jesus. His enemies planned to kill Jesus on the cross so that according to the words of the bibleOT( There was no bibleNT then), Jesus would become a cused person.

Jesus knew that. He knew the bad intention of his enemy fellow men. So he prayed earnestly in the garden to his God to avoid the cup. THE GOD accepted his prayer and saved Jesus from death on the Cross.

It was Jesus alright on the cross. It was Jesus who yelled to his God “O my God, O My God, Why have you forsaken me??” (At that time he forgot to call him the Father.) Rest assured that we Muslims do not support the idea of another fake Jesus on the cross. God miraculously saved Jesus from ignominous death on the cross. How did God do it? you may try to find out, please. It was very easy for the God of Jesus to save him.

Quran says that Jesus appeared to be dead.**

 

[Lilyflower]

**Dear Lilyflower, please know that Muslims do not believe it was the wrong man. The Quran does not say that the wrong man was arrested. I know some Muslims are being taught such a story. But it seems to be a christian story to mislead the Muslims.

I learnt that from a post of Elwill that it was originally found in the work of some christian saint. Please note that Quran agrees to the suffering of Jesus. His enemies planned to kill Jesus on the cross so that according to the words of the bibleOT( There was no bibleNT then), Jesus would become a cused person.

Jesus knew that. He knew the bad intention of his enemy fellow men. So he prayed earnestly in the garden to his God to avoid the cup. THE GOD accepted his prayer and saved Jesus from death on the Cross.

It was Jesus alright on the cross. It was Jesus who yelled to his God “O my God, O My God, Why have you forsaken me??” (At that time he forgot to call him the Father.) Rest assured that we Muslims do not support the idea of another fake Jesus on the cross. God miraculously saved Jesus from ignominous death on the cross. How did God do it? you may try to find out, please. It was very easy for the God of Jesus to save him.

Quran says that Jesus appeared to be dead.**

My dear Planten

I have read the very words in the Quran for myself. I have also read many other versus and texts in your Holy Book so am not mistaken in what I read but record it here faithfully, unless of course there is more than one version of the Quran.

He whom we call Awesome Almighty God, whom you call Allah: bless you.

Blessings and peace

 

[planten]

My dear Planten

I have read the very words in the Quran for myself. I have also read many other versus and texts in your Holy Book so am not mistaken in what I read but record it here faithfully, unless of course there is more than one version of the Quran.

He whom we call Awesome Almighty God, whom you call Allah: bless you.

Blessings and peace

Lilyflower, what you may have read was the commentary. That was some one’s own interpretation. There is no such thing in the original words of the Quran that Jesus was replaced by some one else. Please see again.

 

[sedonaman]

**…

Jesus knew that. He knew the bad intention of his enemy fellow men. So he prayed earnestly in the garden to his God to avoid the cup. …
**

Since, according to Muslims, the Bible [NT] has been corrupted, Jesus probably never said any such thing. That was some one’s own interpretation. Besides, there were no cups in the garden. Jesus and his disciples left their cups, plates, etc. in the room where they had just finished eating so the women could wash them.

**
Lilyflower, what you may have read was the commentary. That was some one’s own interpretation. There is no such thing in the original words of the Quran that Jesus was replaced by some one else. …**

Then the Qur’an you have is not a true Qur’an. The seventh century Qur’an found in Yemen is a true Qur’an because it dates from first century of Hijra and was discovered in the Great Mosque of Sana’a (Yemen). The present standard one significantly differs from the ancient Yemeni Qur’an [the modern version has the word “sword” removed]. Carbon dating system confirmed that the ancient Qur’an is not one forged by religious rivalries or kafirs [infidels/non-believers]. Moreover, the ancient Qur’an [complete with the word “sword”] was discovered by Muslims, not kafirs. The one you have is different because it has been corrupted by men. Perhaps the ancient one has the verses of Jesus and the cup in the garden and his dying on the cross. Please see again.

 

[Lilyflower]

Since, according to Muslims, the Bible [NT] has been corrupted, Jesus probably never said any such thing. That was some one’s own interpretation. Besides, there were no cups in the garden. Jesus and his disciples left their cups, plates, etc. in the room where they had just finished eating so the women could wash them.

Then the Qur’an you have is not a true Qur’an. The seventh century Qur’an found in Yemen is a true Qur’an because it dates from first century of Hijra and was discovered in the Great Mosque of Sana’a (Yemen). The present standard one significantly differs from the ancient Yemeni Qur’an [the modern version has the word “sword” removed]. Carbon dating system confirmed that the ancient Qur’an is not one forged by religious rivalries or kafirs [infidels/non-believers]. Moreover, the ancient Qur’an [complete with the word “sword”] was discovered by Muslims, not kafirs. The one you have is different because it has been corrupted by men. Perhaps the ancient one has the verses of Jesus and the cup in the garden and his dying on the cross. Please see again.

I do not know whether the text I read was a commentary or not, all I know is that it was an authentic copy of the Quaran as used by Muslims at our local hospital Chapel and the extract I read was well into the book. In fact I have often read it as it is on public display to be read by visitors to the Chapel.

All blessings and peace to both my Christian and Muslim brothers and sisters

 

[Bill_Pick]

TOM I try to tell you, you can get very confused here, Its the quarm that is corrupted not the Bible the Bible was written by men of God.

Lije I said B4 the more you try to bash the Christians the more confused you will get.=== Its you against the Bible===Bible+quarm you lose

 

[anjoh66]

My dear Planten

I have read the very words in the Quran for myself. I have also read many other versus and texts in your Holy Book so am not mistaken in what I read but record it here faithfully, unless of course there is more than one version of the Quran.

He whom we call Awesome Almighty God, whom you call Allah: bless you.

Blessings and peace

The whole idea that it was Judas who was made to resemble Jesus is an idea that comes from the apocryphical gospel of Barnabas, which has been spread around the muslim world as the true gospel of Jesus.

Now, the gospel of barnabas is problematic in itself as the earliest handwritten copies that are to be found is written in italian, and another incomplete in spanish, the italian manuscript is full of wrong spellings, which shows that the writer knew spanish better than italian, so the only solution is that it was a spanish muslim who wrote the “gospel.”

This book contains a lot of facts that can not be accepted even from an islamic point of view.
For example it claims that Muhammad was the Messiah and not Jesus which is even opposed to the Quran itself.
Further its description of hell, is literary taken from Dantes book, Divinia Comedia.

The most accepted view is that this book is written sometimes during the 12-1300 century and as such of course can not be traced to the Apostle Barnabas.

 

[anjoh66]

**Dear Lilyflower, please know that Muslims do not believe it was the wrong man. The Quran does not say that the wrong man was arrested. I know some Muslims are being taught such a story. But it seems to be a christian story to mislead the Muslims.

I learnt that from a post of Elwill that it was originally found in the work of some christian saint. Please note that Quran agrees to the suffering of Jesus. His enemies planned to kill Jesus on the cross so that according to the words of the bibleOT( There was no bibleNT then), Jesus would become a cused person.

Jesus knew that. He knew the bad intention of his enemy fellow men. So he prayed earnestly in the garden to his God to avoid the cup. THE GOD accepted his prayer and saved Jesus from death on the Cross.

It was Jesus alright on the cross. It was Jesus who yelled to his God “O my God, O My God, Why have you forsaken me??” (At that time he forgot to call him the Father.) Rest assured that we Muslims do not support the idea of another fake Jesus on the cross. God miraculously saved Jesus from ignominous death on the cross. How did God do it? you may try to find out, please. It was very easy for the God of Jesus to save him.

Quran says that Jesus appeared to be dead.**

According to you, the Ahmadiyya, believes that Jesus after the crucifiction went to kashmir and died there.

Why Kashmir? and what the heck was he doing in kashmir?

The only resemblance that i can see in this claim, which is a claim that has no support at all in history, is the claim of the Mormons that he went to America, which is just as crazy as the claim that he went to Kashmir.

 

[tomshaikh]

Everytime a muslim raises his voice saying that the bible is corrupt it all becomes really pathetic.
They are pointing to some verses out of context and comparing those with other verses, then draws the conclusion that the bible is corrupt without even having understood what the read.

Secondly, how can you support your claim from a book that is suppossed to be corrupt?

They can never point out what, when and why the bible was corrupted.

Quran is the word of ALLAH/GOD anjoh66 okay. You go east, west, north and south you will find Quran the same in every where in the world. And Allah told us in the Quran from many verses that bible is changed let me correct the world from corrupted to changed. So Allah told us in Quran that he going to be safe the verses of Quran okay. Quran is from the beginning learned by humanbeing by hard or heart i donot know how to say. Quran is the word of Allah you call him God. Quran is every thing to muslim and if you read one beside in Quran exposion about non believer how to treat them. I think that point you donot like i guess. So open your mind and read as you are believer of Allah/God and make sure that prophet muhammad pbuh in ur mind is the last seal of prophet no prophet will come after him okay okay okay. Thank you and you will be blessed

 

[tomshaikh]

According to you, the Ahmadiyya, believes that Jesus after the crucifiction went to kashmir and died there.

Why Kashmir? and what the heck was he doing in kashmir?

The only resemblance that i can see in this claim, which is a claim that has no support at all in history, is the claim of the Mormons that he went to America, which is just as crazy as the claim that he went to Kashmir.

You sound very wise. I donot know you are male or female. Whatever you are if you come in a right track. You will rule the world. I mean to say right track which is Islam.

 

[anjoh66]

Quran is the word of ALLAH/GOD anjoh66 okay. You go east, west, north and south you will find Quran the same in every where in the world. And Allah told us in the Quran from many verses that bible is changed let me correct the world from corrupted to changed. So Allah told us in Quran that he going to be safe the verses of Quran okay. Quran is from the beginning learned by humanbeing by hard or heart i donot know how to say. Quran is the word of Allah you call him God. Quran is every thing to muslim and if you read one beside in Quran exposion about non believer how to treat them. I think that point you donot like i guess. So open your mind and read as you are believer of Allah/God and make sure that prophet muhammad pbuh in ur mind is the last seal of prophet no prophet will come after him okay okay okay. Thank you and you will be blessed

I have been studying Islam for 20 years so i am well accuainted with Islam and its teachings and there was a time in my life when i was prepared to accept it as truth.

I read it all, sunni, shia and i also speak and read arabic so i was not reading any translations only originals.
Still it didnt convince me, there are too many problems with islam for being recogniced as a religion of God.

 

[tomshaikh]

I have been studying Islam for 20 years so i am well accuainted with Islam and its teachings and there was a time in my life when i was prepared to accept it as truth.

I read it all, sunni, shia and i also speak and read arabic so i was not reading any translations only originals.
Still it didnt convince me, there are too many problems with islam for being recogniced as a religion of God.

Okay thank you. anjoh sound indian name. Am i right? And if you like tell in brief what you like or dislike about Islam. Thanking you maam

 

[anjoh66]

Okay thank you. anjoh sound indian name. Am i right? And if you like tell in brief what you like or dislike about Islam. Thanking you maam

No i am a man and i am european, not indian, my name is just an abbreviation, nickname.

There is acctually no man in history more important than Jesus, nobody has ever been the source for so much legends, myths, truths as he .

Look at all the claims, islam claim him as a prophet, or that he went to india or america any kind of imaginable stories has been written about him, why does people feel obliged to claim him as their own?

Why do you think he became so important for friends and foe alike?

Why has not so many myths arosen about Muhammad for example?

 

[tomshaikh]

No i am a man and i am european, not indian, my name is just an abbreviation, nickname.

There is acctually no man in history more important than Jesus, nobody has ever been the source for so much legends, myths, truths as he .

Look at all the claims, islam claim him as a prophet, or that he went to india or america any kind of imaginable stories has been written about him, why does people feel obliged to claim him as their own?

Why do you think he became so important for friends and foe alike?

Why has not so many myths arosen about Muhammad for example?

you didn’t answer my previous post. And no i am not ahmadi muslim. Infact those are not muslim by saudi and by other muslim countries. Thank you and answer my question please.

 

[anjoh66]

you didn’t answer my previous post. And no i am not ahmadi muslim. Infact those are not muslim by saudi and by other muslim countries. Thank you and answer my question please.

Your question demands a long answer which i have no time to give you now, i must go to work in some minutes.

I know you are not ahmadi, you are shia imami, twelwer shia

 

[anjoh66]

Briefly i can say that there is no proof whatsoever that there was about to come a prophet from arabia, on the contrary.

 

[tomshaikh]

Your question demands a long answer which i have no time to give you now, i must go to work in some minutes.

I know you are not ahmadi, you are shia imami, twelwer shia

I am not shia nor sunni. I am MUSLIM. These sect was not existed during my beloved prophet muhammad pbuh time. Let you know. Please read Quran 6:159. For your knowledge from www.quranexplorer.com. Thanking you. I go by Quran