Is bingo gambling?

[adrift]

Yeah, I’ve been to Vegas, and that is one thing I found extremely irritating. You walk down the street with your husband, and some guy is shoving flyers in his face

There were a few things I liked–the food was awesome, and at that time cheap (I hear it’s not now), and I did win on a slot. I went to Mass and heard some of the most beautiful cantoring I have ever heard, the young woman had the voice of an angel, and the whole Mass was exceedingly beautiful and well-done. I was surprised to see that the church was packed.

You could put casino chips in the collection basket

Other than that, I wasn’t too impressed. Too much glitz. I was ready to go home on the third day.

Which Church did you go to? I have been to two in Las Vegas. One was downtown and the other was St. Elizabeth Ann Seton. I was in the chapel for a funeral without realizing it was just the Chapel. What a beautiful church.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I got a better idea. Let’s you and I go to Vegas together and start a ministry to the homeless, the destitute, the prostitutes, those recovering from drug addictions, gambling addictions, alcohol addictions, who have left themselves helpless, eaten alive by their own lack of impulse control (because no one properly modeled it for them), and ruined by massive money making power hungry corporations who skillfully took advantage of their weaknesses.

Better yet, lets make a huge casino shaped like a cathedral right on the strip. We’ll call it “The Cathedral” and we’ll take all the profits and turn it around to help third world countries and the poor in our own country. Inside we’ll have a charitable hospital for the sick and elderly who can’t afford their bills and have no one to take care of them. We’ll have an orphanage there too. We’ll have special programs for alcoholics, gambling addicts, pimps, prostitutes, and druggies right inside the casino!

Peace.

It sounds good but isn’t some of that already covered by CMA?

However, I’m puzzled:

What is it about ‘corporations’ that bothers you so much?

Don’t people need jobs? Where will those jobs come from? Mom and Pop stores? What is inherently wrong with economy of scale?

Is there any free will involved here at all?

 

[tsering]

What is it about ‘corporations’ that bothers you so much?

Nothing. Like gambling, corporations are neutral and not inherently evil. I do have a problem with corporations who prey on people’s weaknesses, especially their tendency to sin, or neglect the needs of others for the sake of “entertainment.” That is my impression of most of the casinos in Vegas. Maybe my perspective is wrong and I need correction, but from just looking at the casino website in the second post, I would beg to differ, and I wouldn’t be surprised that casinos in Vegas have similar motives.

For instance, a lot of corporations use “sex appeal” to advertise their products. Do I think advertising is wrong? No. Do I think corporations shouldn’t make as much money as they can and honestly give good jobs? No. But some would do better if they left the “lust” or “greed” or “covetousness” out of their marketing campaigns. In other words, they are preying on an obvious human weakness.

Someone mentioned movies. Personally, I’m sick of most (not all) movies these days. They are teaching and instilling values the are contrary to Tradition. A lot of their content would be condemnable as “entertainment” to most Catholics during the first centuries, maybe even the 19th century.

Also, I did not neglect free will in the post. But the doctrine of free will does not contradict the reality of addiction or an abuse of something permissible or the ability of some to make a profit off of it.

Peace.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Maybe they’re (generic) preying on human weakness by using lust to sell products—or maybe it’s us who are so weak that by our non-protest, we invited this.

I think we lost our country a long time ago and are just beginning to notice. It may be too late. It may not.

Lots of things to ponder.

 

[tsering]

Here is what the Catholic Church officially states:

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.

(of course there can also be laws against certain gambling in certain places…that too figures into things)

Bookcat, thank you.

Considering the second sentence: Bingo in the basement is legitimate (maybe not ideal) because it is providing for the needs of the Church and the poor, but going on trips to Vegas while my parish and possibly others in my area are not meeting their monthly budgets just to keep up the parish needs, let alone provide for the poor of the world, is not.

Peace.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Bookcat, thank you.

Considering the second sentence: Bingo in the basement is legitimate (maybe not ideal) because it is providing for the needs of the Church and the poor, but going on trips to Vegas while my parish and possibly others in my area are not meeting their monthly budgets just to keep up the parish needs, let alone provide for the poor of the world, is not.

Peace.

Please explain further.

I wish our parish had Bingo. I remember it was fun when I played it as a kid. The parish currently has other methods of fund-raising, but one more can’t hurt. Maybe I’ll suggest it to them.

But why is going to Vegas NOT legitimate (other objections aside), if an individual can afford it as entertainment?

PS: Good luck with your candidacy.

 

[Beth_Cecilia]

Does that mean I can start a drinking parlor in my church basement to supplement the lack of financial charity in my parish?
Peace.

I like this post because it clarifies the problem a little. There are parishes which have regular meetings with alcohol in Church halls. Most K of C halls have stocked bars- many of which are rented to raise funds for the knights. Some Churches host event like Theology on Tap, where we get good theology lessons over a few beers. All of this is acceptable. But if these things cause problems, encouraging drunkeness, good pastors shut them down. Bingo should be the same. In some places, it may just be good fun and a night out to raise money for a good cause. What I have seen, though, cannot be described that way. The same people every week, spending quite a bit of money. It is not a game. No one is smiling or having fun, they go through all their rituals, insisting that everything be just so, for good luck. It feels like encouraging superstition, bordering on idolatry. And those complaints without comparing it to our Catechism:
“2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.”
I worry about the second and third sentences (I made them bold) at the Bingo nights I have seen. It need not be so bad, but when it is (and I think it often is) the Church should not allow it to continue.

 

[tsering]

I wish our parish had Bingo. I remember it was fun when I played it as a kid. The parish currently has other methods of fund-raising, but one more can’t hurt. Maybe I’ll suggest it to them.

I see that gambling is permissible, and in the case of raising funds for the Church and charitable causes it is legitimate. I disagree that it is the ideal or normal way of raising funds for the Church and charitable causes.

I think if Christians gave abundantly out of love and conviction as they did in Acts 2:44-45 & 4:34-35, the Church wouldn’t have to spend the effort they do now to try new and “creative” ways of getting their members to give adequate amounts to provide for material needs. Being an ex-missionary, I know this all too well. Many times I caught myself spending half or more of my time fund raising as I did actually working with the people I was trying to reach.

But then again if you think Bingo would be a fun way for you to give to the Church’s needs, which is our obligation as Christians, then maybe that’s a better way for you to get your entertainment (as opposed to trip Vegas) while at the same time providing for your parish’s needs.

But why is going to Vegas NOT legitimate (other objections aside), if an individual can afford it as entertainment?

It is perfectly legitimate as long as the entertainment you engage in does not cause you to stumble and sin. Now, I personally wouldn’t be able to justify a trip to Vegas, considering my own family situation - in other words my family needs the money I would spend in Vegas more than Vegas needs it. Lets say my family is adequately provided for, but I know that my parish’s needs are not being adequately provided for. If providing for the Church’s needs is my Christian obligation, then I would not find any justification in taking a trip to Vegas only for entertainment purposes until my parish’s needs were completely met. Actually the Church’s needs in my mind go beyond my parish. This ministry and website has provided so much for me and yet I have not been able so far to support them financially. I know too many of my Chinese friends are struggling with health care issues and poverty in the mountain villages. With all this in my mind, I would not find a justification for gambling as solely entertainment, not because it is wrong in itself, but because it would become wrong to my conscious in light of:

They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. (CCC 2413).

PS: Good luck with your candidacy.

Thank you so much! I love this journey! I really love the Catholic Church! The more I explore, the more I see that Jesus really founded this Church - the pillar and bulwark of Truth.

Peace.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I love Church history and I’m having a good time trying to explain Lent to some people who don’t know what it is.

We probably need to make the distinction between:

a: What we personally like and/or dislike/disapprove of, and
b: What the CCC says is licit.

Otherwise we get threads like, 'Why doesn’t the Pope sell all his treasures to feed the poor," and so on. And that teeters on imposing our own set of rules on the Magisterium.

Beth Cecilia’s bingo players sound like a tough crowd!

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Short-and-sweet explanation, courtesy of the Apologist Michelle Arnold:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=18906

In Other Words:

"As Long as it Does not Hurt You Spiritually, Financially or Your Loved Ones (I.E., Family) it is OK.

I Remember when Bill Bennett got Caught Heavily Gambling Some Years ago. That is the Defense He Used: “It’s Not A Sin because of So-And-So.”

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Who’s Bill Bennett, and what was that all about?

 

[CB_Catholic]

Which Church did you go to? I have been to two in Las Vegas. One was downtown and the other was St. Elizabeth Ann Seton. I was in the chapel for a funeral without realizing it was just the Chapel. What a beautiful church.

I think it was called the Shrine of the Most Holy Redeemer. That was about 15 years ago, though, and I had to Google it, and that seems to be it. Behind the Tropicana.

 

[tsering]

I love Church history and I’m having a good time trying to explain Lent to some people who don’t know what it is.

Ah, Lent, I’d sacrifice a million years of luxury to make the life of one poor man full of blessing (Isaiah 58:6-8). The reason I don’t like the luxuries of Vegas (I mean the casinos) is because I see scandal (CCC 2284-7).

We probably need to make the distinction between:

a: What we personally like and/or dislike/disapprove of, and
b: What the CCC says is licit.

I agree, but I’m not sure how it applies to our conversation. The statement on gambling in the CCC is specific, and yet left without details. For instance, when it says,
“They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others.” (CCC 2413), what does it mean by “others”? In this sense I have to look to other parts of the CCC, Scripture, Tradition to find out what “others” constitutes. Just from the CCC I gather that my obligation to “others” constitutes my family, the Church - “The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his abilities” (CCC 2043), and the poor - “It is by what they have done for the poor that Jesus Christ will recognize his chosen ones” (CCC 2443-9). In other words, I’m trying the best I can to listen carefully to the voice of the Magisterium, not impose anything upon them. And though gambling, and even alcohol, food, etc are licit, they can easily become illicit in certain contexts. The statement in the CCC is more of a warning than a license, especially considering the Church’s historical stance concerning gambling (The Church and Gambling).

Tell me, does an Archbishop have any authority on this issue?
Check out what one’s perspective is on gambling in his Archdiocese:

The False Eden of Gambling

FAQs on the Archbishops policies concerning gambling

“An intrinsic part of the Christian tradition regards the monies available for gambling as the monies of the poor.” (The False Eden of Gambling)

“However, as Christians we can examine our own actions regarding gambling…And we can preach and live the Word that ought to make gambling irrelevant in our lives. And we can live the hope of our faith that unmasks the false hope of greed.” (The False Eden of Gambling)

Otherwise we get threads like, 'Why doesn’t the Pope sell all his treasures to feed the poor," and so on.

The Pope has taken a vow of poverty, so I didn’t know he owned any treasures. I thought all the “treasures” are the Church’s - who constantly offers herself for the poor (both spiritually and materially) of the world. A cathedral, no matter how elaborately made and adorned to honor our Creator, is a place where the poorest of the poor can come to enjoy just as much as the richest of the rich. Therefore the Church has already given all to the poor, and continues to do so. I’m happy to jump on that bandwagon.

Peace.

 

[Waiting]

The Pope has taken a vow of poverty, so I didn’t know he owned any treasures. I thought all the “treasures” are the Church’s - who constantly offers herself for the poor (both spiritually and materially) of the world. A cathedral, no matter how elaborately made and adorned to honor our Creator, is a place where the poorest of the poor can come to enjoy just as much as the richest of the rich. Therefore the Church has already given all to the poor, and continues to do so. I’m happy to jump on that bandwagon.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

The Pope has taken a vow of poverty, so I didn’t know he owned any treasures. I thought all the “treasures” are the Church’s - who constantly offers herself for the poor (both spiritually and materially) of the world. A cathedral, no matter how elaborately made and adorned to honor our Creator, is a place where the poorest of the poor can come to enjoy just as much as the richest of the rich. Therefore the Church has already given all to the poor, and continues to do so. I’m happy to jump on that bandwagon.

Peace.

You got it!

If you look around long enough you’ll find that’s one of the most-often-misunderstood topics.

Anyway, as the CCC has been quoted, bingo is indeed gambling. I don’t have a problem with churches using bingo to raise money for their parishes. Yet the church (I think wisely enough) leaves us some wiggle room in its law about daily life, unlike the 613 Jewish laws.

I guess that’s where common sense comes in.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

It always amazes me that something like bingo is frowned upon as if were a great evil. I’m not really into bingo but if I wanted to take $20 and play one night a month with a chance of winning a prize, how is that sinful? As long as I can afford the $20, why is that different than going to the movies, playing golf, or going out to dinner? It’s entertainment. It’s also a charitable contribution.

OK, I admit it. I like to play blackjack. I am good at it and after 4 years of playing, I am still even. (I keep track in a spreadsheet). I have also received 9 free hotel nights, free drinks, and countless hours of entertainment - courtesy of the casinos. I only take money I can afford to lose, and if I lose it, I stop and go home. I average about 1 gambling night a month. So how is that different from golf where you spend your $100 for 4 hours of entertainment?

Admittedly, I may be the exception to the rule. I see a lot of people losing money they can’t afford to lose. And I think there is a risk of developing a lust for money.

Winner! Winner! Chicken dinner!
John

 

[tsering]

It always amazes me that something like bingo is frowned upon as if were a great evil. I’m not really into bingo but if I wanted to take $20 and play one night a month with a chance of winning a prize, how is that sinful? As long as I can afford the $20, why is that different than going to the movies, playing golf, or going out to dinner? It’s entertainment. It’s also a charitable contribution.

OK, I admit it. I like to play blackjack. I am good at it and after 4 years of playing, I am still even. (I keep track in a spreadsheet). I have also received 9 free hotel nights, free drinks, and countless hours of entertainment - courtesy of the casinos. I only take money I can afford to lose, and if I lose it, I stop and go home. I average about 1 gambling night a month. So how is that different from golf where you spend your $100 for 4 hours of entertainment?

Admittedly, I may be the exception to the rule. I see a lot of people losing money they can’t afford to lose. And I think there is a risk of developing a lust for money.

Winner! Winner! Chicken dinner!
John

I think for charitable causes it’s commendable. But gambling, as well as food/alcohol, and all other forms of entertainment run the risk of being abused if the person lacks temperance as you put it in your last statement.

Read how this Archbishop perceives gambling:

"However, the idea that gambling is simple entertainment needs to be challenged as well, for the involvement is often not simple. An intrinsic part of the Christian tradition regards the monies available for gambling as the monies of the poor. That is to say, if those who gamble are wealthy enough to put money into games of chance, then a glance at Jesus’ teaching in the Gospels suggests that they use the money to help the poor. The same could be said for much of the money and time most of us spend on various entertainments, so this is a meditation for all who have what is euphemistically referred to as “disposable income.” - Taken from The False Eden of Gambling

Peace

 

[crystal_waters]

Here is an excerpt from a gambling website:

"The Catholic church on Gambling

While Bingo is popular throughout the world as a revenue earning game that is played in churches, the Catholic Church’s take on gambling has always been a paradox.

On one hand, gambling is strictly forbidden as is written in the New Testament, Corinthians 1:36 “And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain].” This excerpt outlines clearly the biblical commandment against gambling of any forms. The edict is actually against ill-gotten gains.

On the other hand, the Church accept donations from the gambling industry, be it in the form of money or services provided. Furthermore, it was a Catholic priest who first introduced Bingo into church basements, in order to raise money for his parish.

The Church has yet to address these issues, as few believers have even asked them yet. In the event of a theological crisis between the church and the bare facts of reality, as is inevitable as the years go by and the Church loses more and more of its power, many people will be faced with the question whether to continue to pray in a hypocritically church that deals out double standards on every issue, or be free to worship their own deity, whomever that may be, and practice gambling in the best online casino at the same time."

From: www.new777casino.com

Peace.

theres a priest in my parish that calls thye numbers for a charity pub bingo

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I think for charitable causes it’s commendable. But gambling, as well as food/alcohol, and all other forms of entertainment run the risk of being abused if the person lacks temperance as you put it in your last statement.

Read how this Archbishop perceives gambling:

"However, the idea that gambling is simple entertainment needs to be challenged as well, for the involvement is often not simple. An intrinsic part of the Christian tradition regards the monies available for gambling as the monies of the poor. That is to say, if those who gamble are wealthy enough to put money into games of chance, then a glance at Jesus’ teaching in the Gospels suggests that they use the money to help the poor. The same could be said for much of the money and time most of us spend on various entertainments, so this is a meditation for all who have what is euphemistically referred to as “disposable income.” - Taken from The False Eden of Gambling

Peace

I wonder how many people actually look upon gambling as a ‘false Eden?’

Really, it’s not for anyone else to tell an individual what to do as long as the Church has deemed an activity licit.

 

[tsering]

I wonder how many people actually look upon gambling as a ‘false Eden?’

Really, it’s not for anyone else to tell an individual what to do as long as the Church has deemed an activity licit.

I agree, but don’t you think an Archbishop has a lot to say?

Peace