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johnnyt3000
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Catholic schools around the country have football and wrestling teams.
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jimmy
Guest
And they tend to be very serious about these sports. Atleast in wrestling, many of the best high schools are Catholic schools.
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NextElement
Guest
As a long time boxer and now Muay Thai kickboxer, I see it as purely sport. Only someone who has never participated in it would see it as anything else… So I would say no, it’s not a sin, as long as you don’t go into the fight actually hoping to injure the other person.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
One has to imagine that serious injury is a very real possibility. That is also why corporal punishment for children has been largely abandoned. There are relatively few boxers who have not sustained real and sometimes even permanent injuries to their bodies (and sometimes their brains). It is a savage sport, a pale holdover from the old Roman gladiators duelling to the death.
What troubles me about the sport is less the actual combat between the boxers as the vicious egging on of the crowd. The boxers are just trying to make a living. The crowd is cheering to see a death, or something dangerously close to it.
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jimmy
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That is a gross overstatement of the boxing fans attitude. No one is looking for a death, neither the fighters nor the fans. The fans want to see a good fight.One has to imagine that serious injury is a very real possibility. That is also why corporal punishment for children has been largely abandoned. There are relatively few boxers who have not sustained real and sometimes even permanent injuries to their bodies (and sometimes their brains). It is a savage sport, a pale holdover from the old Roman gladiators duelling to the death.
What troubles me about the sport is less the actual combat between the boxers as the vicious egging on of the crowd. The boxers are just trying to make a living. The crowd is cheering to see a death, or something dangerously close to it.
Serious injury is a possibility of everything in life. As Bilbo Baggins said, life is a dangerous matter.
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Charlemagne_III
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You’re in denial. Go watch Raging Bull.
Yes, life is a dangerous matter. More so is getting your brains jumbled.
According to this source, 90% of boxers get brain damage.
What’s your answer?
“Life is a dangerous matter?”
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NextElement
Guest
Okay then, every contact sport is now a sin because there is a possibility of getting hurt! Boxing, wrestling, football, hockey… Shake my head 
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jimmy
Guest
I have seen Raging Bull, which is a movie, and no matter how true it is to life it isn’t representative of the world of boxing. Go watch Cinderella Man.
My answer, 100% of people die. As I said, life is dangerous, and the ratio of births to deaths is an exact 1 to 1 ratio. Yes, boxing can cause brain damage, but so does football (which has been shown to be far more dangerous and causes many more serious injuries).
People live in a fantasy world in which they think that safety is a possibility, or even that it is desirable. So they attempt to make laws to control boxing and the martial arts sports. You want this controlled environment in which there is no potential for injury. Well, for that to happen you are going to have to lock yourself in a room with nothing in it. And it is this obsession with ‘safety’ that has contributed to the creation of a bunch of women masquerading as men in modern America.
Boxing, wrestling and all other martial arts are a chance for a person to face their fears and to learn to conquer themselves. And that is a dangerous thing; you could potentially get hurt. I would trust the boxer (any martial art including wrestling could be substituted here) who punched me for ten rounds before trusting the commentator and activist who opposed boxing because of the potential for injury. At least the boxer was willing to face his fears and was willing to face another man who could hurt him. Maybe Jake Lamotta was a jerk, but most fighters find friends through fighting. Usually there is at least respect between opponents.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
The object of football is to score a touchdown, with or without injuries.
The object of boxing is to score as many blows to the head and the body as possible.
Can you document that 90% of football players get brain damage?
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tomarin
Guest
Even among martial arts boxing seems particularly brutal. In judo for example you don’t try to immobilize your opponent by hitting him in the head.
I like boxing. But one reason I don’t take it up is that I don’t want to come home from a practice missing a tooth. That would be hard to explain to the missus.
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Timi_Celcer
Guest
So what action would make professional boxing moral or more moral? And we can all agree that amateur boxing is definitely not sinful?
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Thorns
Guest
IMO boxing isnt a sin. Its a physical chess game and both participants agreed to be there to box each other. How is that bad? Its rough sure.
I guess it all depends on the viewer and their intent too though. If you are filled with bloodlust and hoping a boxer dies or gets seriously injured, then it is sinful on the viewers part IMO.
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Bookcat
Guest
Regarding professional boxing and the reason why:
“Moralists generally have doubted the morality of professional boxing, of the bull-fighting popular in Hispanic culture, of speed racing, and of various kinds of stunting in which there is serious risk of death or grave bodily injury.”
~ Fr. Benedict Ashley OP
pg 306 “Living the Truth in Love, a Biblical introduction to Moral Theology” 1996
(Fr. Benedict Ashley was professor of Theology at the Aquinas Institute of Theology, highly respected author of several text and countless articles on moral theology. A consultant for the Committee on Doctrine of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops and a senior fellow of the Pope John Center of Medical Ethics. He was honored with the Pro Ecclesia medal from Bl. Pope John Paul II)
(as to other kinds of boxing I leave that to others)
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Timi_Celcer
Guest
The morality of boxing is judged by its nature. Some may say that a)hitting someone until he can’t hit you no more is immoral(which i agree), and b)so many deaths and injuries in the sport make it immoral(again i agree)
But we may have the wrong definition about what is the goal in boxing. I’m not sure completely, but i think that the goal in boxing is to win by decision(points) at the end of predicted number of rounds. I’m not talking about the individual goals of a boxer, i’m talking about the general goal in the sport. For example in football/soccer, the goal of team 1 may be to provoke team 2, so that team 2 may get the needed number of red cards in order for a match to result in disqualification, which ultimately means victory for the team 1. That is not what football’s goal is, it is rather to score more goals than the opposite team. Similary in modern boxing, the goal of the sport is to win by decision after the scheduled number of rounds. But if one boxer cannot continue(too injured), or cannot get up before the scheduled number of rounds, than he loses before the end, like a team with too many red cards can lose before the end by getting disqualified. A knockout is merely a side effect of punches, punches that should not be meant for a knockout but for collecting points for victory. So the goal of one boxer may be to knock someone out(because its faster, easier,…), but the ultimate goal of the sport is a decision. Knockout rule is a necessity, because without it, there would be no winner in case the boxer falls on the ground. In that definition, an injury is nothing more than a side effect like in American football and other sports, and not a direct intention. I’m not sure if i’m assuming correct, but that’s how i imagine it.
That is one thing, the other thing are deaths and injuries. I agree that modern professional boxing is immoral, because of many deaths and injuries. But that is largely because its so unregulated. There is no governing body. But the governing body of amateur boxing is now working on a project to expand itself on the professional form also. The project is called AIBA professional boxing. They plan to have several medical reforms. They plan to introduce medical checkouts between rounds, if a boxers is knocked out in the previous match, he has to rest for a period of time, a boxer must be checked and confirmed by a medical expert or something before every match in order to compete. And many others i believe. These will make deaths and severe injuries almost if not completely unexisting.
Also boxing will be a lot more regulated and corrupt promotes may not have such influence. That is if the project runs smoothly.
Do you agree or disagree?
But we may have the wrong definition about what is the goal in boxing. I’m not sure completely, but i think that the goal in boxing is to win by decision(points) at the end of predicted number of rounds. I’m not talking about the individual goals of a boxer, i’m talking about the general goal in the sport. For example in football/soccer, the goal of team 1 may be to provoke team 2, so that team 2 may get the needed number of red cards in order for a match to result in disqualification, which ultimately means victory for the team 1. That is not what football’s goal is, it is rather to score more goals than the opposite team. Similary in modern boxing, the goal of the sport is to win by decision after the scheduled number of rounds. But if one boxer cannot continue(too injured), or cannot get up before the scheduled number of rounds, than he loses before the end, like a team with too many red cards can lose before the end by getting disqualified. A knockout is merely a side effect of punches, punches that should not be meant for a knockout but for collecting points for victory. So the goal of one boxer may be to knock someone out(because its faster, easier,…), but the ultimate goal of the sport is a decision. Knockout rule is a necessity, because without it, there would be no winner in case the boxer falls on the ground. In that definition, an injury is nothing more than a side effect like in American football and other sports, and not a direct intention. I’m not sure if i’m assuming correct, but that’s how i imagine it.
That is one thing, the other thing are deaths and injuries. I agree that modern professional boxing is immoral, because of many deaths and injuries. But that is largely because its so unregulated. There is no governing body. But the governing body of amateur boxing is now working on a project to expand itself on the professional form also. The project is called AIBA professional boxing. They plan to have several medical reforms. They plan to introduce medical checkouts between rounds, if a boxers is knocked out in the previous match, he has to rest for a period of time, a boxer must be checked and confirmed by a medical expert or something before every match in order to compete. And many others i believe. These will make deaths and severe injuries almost if not completely unexisting.
Also boxing will be a lot more regulated and corrupt promotes may not have such influence. That is if the project runs smoothly.
Do you agree or disagree?
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MattHendricks
Guest
Boxing is not a sin. Both people agree and desire to participate. Boxing is about much more than hurting your opponent. Boxing is about your strength, will, discipline and technique. Although many suffer injuries in the sport, that is not what it is about. If you personally wanted to injur your opponent that would be different. As long as you practice sportsmanship than you are not sinning. As for watching boxing, it would only be sinful if you we’re watching to see people be hurt. Most people watch it because of the spirit of the fighters and the thrill of the competition and the sport.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
I say that boxing is immoral because it promotes violence and aggression within society instead of love and peace.
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BornInMarch
Guest
It’s an athletic sport, and it contains it’s own risks. Literally every sport in the world contains some risk.
Boxing is no less a sin than football (which can cause concussions), soccer (which can result in broken legs), or anything else.
While it can be sinful (Don King is a prime example of Boxing being used for sinful purposes), it is not intrinsically so.
Boxing is no less a sin than football (which can cause concussions), soccer (which can result in broken legs), or anything else.
While it can be sinful (Don King is a prime example of Boxing being used for sinful purposes), it is not intrinsically so.
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Bookcat
Guest
The argument that can be made in the case some forms - that they are different then those other sports -for the injuries that can happen as an unintended side effect of other reasonable sporting - but in at least some forms of professional boxing -one is intentionally attacking the opponent resulting in such bodily harm or risk of such serious injury. Persons can debate this of course -but it has certainly been a matter of concern or at least doubt for many moral theologians.
(I personally also do not recommend football due to various reasons…)
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11325874&postcount=50
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FNDRB58
Guest
Notre Dame and other Catholic universities have boxing teams yet some have died in the ring. Some say if your aim is to hurt the opponent then its a sin and if your aim is not to hurt them then it isn’t? Yet… is it not the goal of every boxer to knock the opponent unconscious, thus “hurting” them?
Not sure there is a clear answer to the question of boxing. So
Not sure there is a clear answer to the question of boxing. So
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Bookcat
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Notre Dame and other Catholic universities have boxing teams yet some have died in the ring. Some say if your aim is to hurt the opponent then its a sin and if your aim is not to hurt them then it isn’t? Yet… is it not the goal of every boxer to knock the opponent unconscious, thus “hurting” them?
Not sure there is a clear answer to the question of boxing. So
- See my posts.
- Note there can be distinguishing between kinds.
- Old threads like this one are not really to be awoken.
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