Is breeding animals wrong?

[JRKH]

You the livestock farmer are destroying the earth that I need to survive. You are destroying our water supply also. And your products don’t benefit my health. You put animals in unnatural conditions and then claim that they are vicious. It makes absolutely no sense. It’s all done for money! I find it hard to believe that alot of people can’t comprehend this. As it is so blatantly obvious! I look at Philip Morris and I say the same thing. No one is benefiting but him. Whether you are the smoker yourself or the person or animal breathing the second hand smoke. We can say, we have the right to smoke. But do we really? As it affects everyone else as well. Is it serving the good of all humanity? Could that money not be spend better elsewhere (as someone stated in another post that it was sinful to spend money on animals, that God says we should alliviate human suffering first). I’m all for freedom as long as you are not hurting anyone or anything else by doing it. And this whole argument of people would not have a job so do we want to put people out of work (the factory farm workers, slaughterhouse workers, etc.) is such an asinine argument. It’s like saying continue on with abortion because we don’t want to put the abortionist out of work. Get real people! And the argument that Jesus did it therefore I shall do it. Jesus ate meat, therefore I shall eat meat. Jesus walked, therefore I shall walk. Jesus did not have modern technology, therefore I shall not have modern technology. Jesus healed, therefore I shall heal. Jesus loved thy neighbor, therefore I shall love my neighbor. Seems to me out of all of those (and that’s just a few), the only one most, not all, seem to be doing is eating meat:shrug: In the case of breeding to stop the extinction of certain animals I’d have to say why not correct the things we are doing that are making the animals extinct? Wouldn’t that be the more logical way to go? At this point, yes, maybe we should be breeding for this specific incidence but we also must look to fixing the problem that’s causing it. It’s all just common sense really. And be able to look past what we as individuals want and do what is right for all. Sure, maybe you like the taste of meat but if you are going to argue that humans come before animals then you need to think of how many people can be fed if we use the farmland for vegetables and plant proteins as opposed to feeding all that livestock. And there is no concrete argument that we need meat to survive as I’ve said before, I’m sitting here writing this, healthy as can be, and I don’t eat meat. Hence, living proof that it can be done.

I can make the very same argument about cars that you make here about animals. Cars are destroying the enviornment. Humans get no benefit from cars. Walking is healthier. Land is used up for factories and gas stations and car lots and junk yards. The water supply is damaged by the petroleum runoffs and so forth. if people need to haul heavy loads they can use horses and wagons, or just only carry what they can carry themselves. After All that is how God made us.
You will say that animals can feel and cars cannot, but that is not germaine to whether the process of breeding, or the process of auto production and support benefits mankind.
Certainly cars can be made more efficient just as animal husbandry can be improved. But declaring “Animal Breeding” to be wrong because mankind does not benefit is the same as declaring auto production wrong because mankind does not benefit.

To say that animal breeding is somehow against God’s plan is also wrong unless you can demonstrate that animal breeding - IN and OF ITSELF is sinful. You may certainly be able to show that certain persons sin by how they run their businesses, but simply selecting the act of selective breeding as the culprit is wrong. It’s like saying that “money is the root of all evil”, instead of the correct reading which is that “The Love of Money” is the root of all evil".

I will now apologize for rambling and getting a bit testy about this.
Each person is entitled to their position on their diet and so forth.
And I beg your indulgence because I get a bit cranky when I see and read about people who are worried about dogs in a shelter instead of babies in the womb.
Frankly I think that we need to have the priorities straight. Let’s stop abortion and THEN talk about the ASPCA shelters.

Peace
James

 

[Marfran]

If you can find a place in either the Bible or the culture of biblical times where breeding of animals is condemned I’d like to here about it. The fact is that this has been going on and Jesus knew about it when He was here. He had no problem with the flocks, the eating of meat and fish, the sacrifice of animals in the temple, killing the fatted calf in the prodigal son parable, etc. If Jesus saw no need to condemn the intentional breeding of animals for meat and wool and profit, then neither do I.

The times and period of history in which Christ lived do not resemble our times in the least. It is like comparing a wagon wheel to a space shuttle. Could the inventors of the wagon wheel have spoken of this invention and also included the futuristic components of a space shuttle? The times and life, when the Bible was written, do not reflect the advancement of modern societies, or the moralities of future practices, and whether the eating of meat should continue once man had evolved to the place where it is no longer neccessary for survival, and where it’s continuation in the form of factory farming diverts resources that could instead go directly to alleviate the hunger of all peoples. The breeding of animals **today **does not reflect the breeding of the animals of yesteryear. The little pug dog, did not exist in the time of Christ. Factory farming was not even a forseen concept. Cows were not shot up with antibiotics and hormones and milked with a machine. We are called, as children of God, made in his image, to assess the problems of our time, with love, mercy, charity, and responsibility and concern for all of God’s creation. We are called to ackowledge how our actions affect the globe, and all the humans who make up the globe. This is the higher call–to assess the entire picture of today, and to act responsibly with regard to all of life. Affluent peoples have a responsibily to their less affluent brothers, and must work to create an equality of life’s essentials for all the people of the world.

 

[Marfran]

I can make the very same argument about cars that you make here about animals. Cars are destroying the enviornment.

Absolutely. And this is yet another problem that we must work to resolve.

 

[Marfran]

To say that animal breeding is somehow against God’s plan is also wrong unless you can demonstrate that animal breeding - IN and OF ITSELF is sinful.

I would respectfully disagree here. The act itself may be neutral, but the intentions for the act, the intentions in wanting to interfere in the reproductive life of animals must be considered, and the end result must also be considered. You could perhaps breed an animal if you were to care for the offspring and see to their survival, but to intentionally breed them to a life of suffering and pain, only to destroy them is wrong.

 

[Marfran]

And I beg your indulgence because I get a bit cranky when I see and read about people who are worried about dogs in a shelter instead of babies in the womb.
Frankly I think that we need to have the priorities straight. Let’s stop abortion and THEN talk about the ASPCA shelters.

The priority should be that we respect ALL of life. Abortion will never cease as long as the general populace disrespects human **and **animal life. The general populace is de-sensitized to animal life, takes delight in killing it, and kills casually–how can they be expected to care about unborn human babies who are invisible to them? The general populace also disrespects living human beings as evidenced by murder, murder commited for all sorts of reasons including theft, robbery, jealousy, personal advancement, etc. Turn on the TV or almost every movie–total desensitivity and respect for life–killing humans by murder is often the theme of our entertainment.

If people would care ***more ***for animals, ***more ***for living human beings, care ***more ***for the plight of less affluent peoples–and live their lives reflecting this–they would see the unborn human baby for what it is, and not the inconvenience that it may impose. If you respect ALL of life, then you can not deny the life of an unborn human baby. If you pick and choose, what life you respect, what works for your life–the unborn human baby draws the short straw.

We should all care MORE, not less.

 

[4elise]

Fist it was condemened by the church as a heresy. The best way to put it is it relegates humans to being just a bump on a log. One is to do something with his life, mere survival to the next day doesn’t cut it.

Ummmm, I think that was a joke?

 

[Jean_1958]

Animals are part of God’s creation, how can one go out and spend money on a ‘breed’ dog when they could get a dog from a shelter?

This is a good point also. If you are going to say that humans come first and that money is supposed to go to alliviate human suffering first than there is no argument for buying a “breed” dog. They are expensive. And only support vanity. The money could be better spent elsewhere.

While purebred dogs are expensive, there is a very good reason as to why they cost. As someone who has owned a purebred German Shepherd from a reputable breeder in the past, many people choose to spend that kind of money because they know exactly what they are getting health, temperment, and behavior wise.

And for those who have children, cats, or other small pets, a purebred puppy from a reputable breeder offers them lots of consolation knowing that their dog is more apt to like children, cats, and other small pets because it has been raised around them from day one.

Shelter dogs are a mixed bag (only 25% are actual purebreds) and when you go to a shelter, you will either find what you are looking for or you won’t.

I have adopted shelter dogs before and my current GSD was acquire from Petfinder Classifieds from a lady who was having her home foreclosed. Our Keeshond was was acquired from former neighbors who were divorcing and could no longer keep him. So, I have no problems acquiring a shelter or owner give-ups.

I am just trying to make a really good case for WHY people, at times, pay lots of money for purebureds from reputable breeders.

I really don’t understand how people can justify breeding, buying dogs / cats - when SO many are destroyed every day in shelters.

The bottom line is unless people are breeding to show and help “improve” the breed, people should not be breeding.

The pet overpopulation issue stems from the fact much of the general population is not educated properly about why you shoud not breed and why it is important to spay and neuter. Many regular pet owners believe they are obligated to have just ONE litter with their fenale dog or cat and we need to start making them understand they are not obligated and that it truly is best to fix your pet. If more people were properly educated, the pet overpopulation issue would start becoming less and less of an issue.

Thankfully, the recession has helped shut down many puppy mills and put many backyard breeders out of business. Sadly, people who capitalize on the popularity of a specific breed only add to the pet over population issue. I think if the general population was better educated about not acquiring a breed simply because someone famous has it or because it was seen in a movie, then the less “fuel” puppy millers and backyard breeders would have to do what they do. They key is to start getting people to do their research and buy as more educated individuals so they start buying breeds that better fit their lifestyle and breeds that do not copme with such costly health, temperment, and behavioral issues that eventually cause them to be abandoned or given up to shelters and breed rescues.

Jean

 

[Marfran]

Calorie for caloie, meat productino takes less acreage than grain production.

Completely NOT TRUE. It takes roughly 16 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of meat. And the water that is wasted is astronomical!!!

To date, probably the most reliable and widely-accepted water estimate to produce a pound of beef is the figure of 2,500 gallons/pound. Newsweek once put it another way: “the water that goes into a 1,000 pound steer would float a destroyer.”

It’s wasteful and irresponsible to squander our precious resources on a luxury item like meat.

 

[Marfran]

While purebred dogs are expensive, there is a very good reason as to why they cost. As someone who has owned a purebred German Shepherd from a reputable breeder in the past, many people choose to spend that kind of money because they know exactly what they are getting health, temperment, and behavior wise.

And for those who have children, cats, or other small pets, a purebred puppy from a reputable breeder offers them lots of consolation knowing that their dog is more apt to like children, cats, and other small pets because it has been raised around them from day one.

Shelter dogs are a mixed bag (only 25% are actual purebreds) and when you go to a shelter, you will either find what you are looking for or you won’t.

I have adopted shelter dogs before and my current GSD was acquire from Petfinder Classifieds from a lady who was having her home foreclosed. Our Keeshond was was acquired from former neighbors who were divorcing and could no longer keep him. So, I have no problems acquiring a shelter or owner give-ups.

I am just trying to make a really good case for WHY people, at times, pay lots of money for purebureds from reputable breeders.

The bottom line is unless people are breeding to show and help “improve” the breed, people should not be breeding.

The pet overpopulation issue stems from the fact much of the general population is not educated properly about why you shoud not breed and why it is important to spay and neuter. Many regular pet owners believe they are obligated to have just ONE litter with their fenale dog or cat and we need to start making them understand they are not obligated and that it truly is best to fix your pet. If more people were properly educated, the pet overpopulation issue would start becoming less and less of an issue.

Thankfully, the recession has helped shut down many puppy mills and put many backyard breeders out of business. Sadly, people who capitalize on the popularity of a specific breed only add to the pet over population issue. I think if the general population was better educated about not acquiring a breed simply because someone famous has it or because it was seen in a movie, then the less “fuel” puppy millers and backyard breeders would have to do what they do. They key is to start getting people to do their research and buy as more educated individuals so they start buying breeds that better fit their lifestyle and breeds that do not copme with such costly health, temperment, and behavioral issues that eventually cause them to be abandoned or given up to shelters and breed rescues.

Jean

A very good post, Jean. This is definitely a multi-faceted problem that needs to be attacked from many directions. But I do question continuing to breed “purebreeds” as long as the whole problem is not under control. Puppy mills are inhumane and this form of dog breeding should be permanently shut down. Private breeders are generally responsible people, as far as the nuturing of the puppies and care of the mother go. Maybe they can take a break for awhile, while we all work on this problem.

 

[JRKH]

Absolutely. And this is yet another problem that we must work to resolve.

Have you gotten rid of you car?

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

The priority should be that we respect ALL of life. Abortion will never cease as long as the general populace disrespects human **and **animal life. The general populace is de-sensitized to animal life, takes delight in killing it, and kills casually–how can they be expected to care about unborn human babies who are invisible to them? The general populace also disrespects living human beings as evidenced by murder, murder commited for all sorts of reasons including theft, robbery, jealousy, personal advancement, etc. Turn on the TV or almost every movie–total desensitivity and respect for life–killing humans by murder is often the theme of our entertainment.

If people would care ***more ***for animals, ***more ***for living human beings, care ***more ***for the plight of less affluent peoples–and live their lives reflecting this–they would see the unborn human baby for what it is, and not the inconvenience that it may impose. If you respect ALL of life, then you can not deny the life of an unborn human baby. If you pick and choose, what life you respect, what works for your life–the unborn human baby draws the short straw.

We should all care MORE, not less.

Your position here is surprising since man has been raising, killing animals and eating meat for millenia, whereas legal abortion is a fairly recent development, and to put the two on the same level is wrong.
Every Dollar donated to save animals is a dollar that could be donated to save children. How many pro shelter and pro animal welfare commercials do you see vs Commercials promoting Pro-Life issues?
I’ll wait until the Children are saved to start worrying about the animals thank you.

 

[JRKH]

I would respectfully disagree here. The act itself may be neutral, but the intentions for the act, the intentions in wanting to interfere in the reproductive life of animals must be considered, and the end result must also be considered. You could perhaps breed an animal if you were to care for the offspring and see to their survival, but to intentionally breed them to a life of suffering and pain, only to destroy them is wrong.

You seem to have a difficult time differentiating the act itself from the particulars of the reason for the act. The Act of intential breeding is not in itself wrong.
For instance, My Grandmother had her 2 milk cows bred so that they would “come fresh”. The Calves born were left on the cows until they were sold for veal. The Cows wnet out to pasture and were milked twice a day. They were cared for and if they got sick they were treated by the vet. Once the cows got older they too were sent to market and another cow (or calf was raised as replacement).
The Breeding here was done artificially, the animals cared for and used apprpriately.
In this case the Act of breeding the animals was not wrong. No one was hurt by it.

Now, if you are a vegitarian you will no doubt disagree with the above, but that is a personal choice on your part not to eat meat.

 

[JRKH]

I might also note in all of this discussion that, where we talk about things as God intended them to be,
God intended for us to walk with Him, Naked, in a Garden Paradise.
Since we screwed up that part. I guess we’ll just have to do the best we can.

Peace
James

 

[4elise]

You seem to have a difficult time differentiating the act itself from the particulars of the reason for the act. The Act of intential breeding is not in itself wrong.
For instance, My Grandmother had her 2 milk cows bred so that they would “come fresh”. The Calves born were left on the cows until they were sold for veal. The Cows wnet out to pasture and were milked twice a day. They were cared for and if they got sick they were treated by the vet. Once the cows got older they too were sent to market and another cow (or calf was raised as replacement).
The Breeding here was done artificially, the animals cared for and used apprpriately.
In this case the Act of breeding the animals was not wrong. No one was hurt by it.

Now, if you are a vegitarian you will no doubt disagree with the above, but that is a personal choice on your part not to eat meat.

Given your previous post on putting all resources towards savings the unborn, could these resources have been better spent?

 

[4elise]

I might also note in all of this discussion that, where we talk about things as God intended them to be,
God intended for us to walk with Him, Naked, in a Garden Paradise.
Since we screwed up that part. I guess we’ll just have to do the best we can.

Peace
James

And the choices we make in this life every day reflect how we value God’s creation.

Can you justify someone spending money on a purebred dog? Or do you see that as a misuse of resources too?

Since it is less expensive to eat a vegan diet, should you consider that, and then send your money to pro-life issues?

Would you think it more appropriate to just destroy animals that have no home, if the resources should only go to pro-life issues?

 

[JRKH]

And the choices we make in this life every day reflect how we value God’s creation.

Yes they do. But they do so on an individual basis.

Can you justify someone spending money on a purebred dog? Or do you see that as a misuse of resources too?

Certainly I can justify someone spending money on a purebreed dog. Sheepherders do so to get good dogs for helping them with their work. Hunters can purchase purebreed dog for the purpose of helping them put food on their families table. I have no problem at all with justifying this.
As for people who purchase purebred “lapdogs” and such, personally I have no use for pure pets of any kind and so would not make such a purchase. I cannot answer for others who may have justifications of their own.

Since it is less expensive to eat a vegan diet, should you consider that, and then send your money to pro-life issues?

I could consider that - yes.

Would you think it more appropriate to just destroy animals that have no home, if the resources should only go to pro-life issues?

The issue is far more complicated than your statement makes it out to be. I simply find it interesting that people in this country find it more desirable to protect dogs than unborn children. Those of us who believe abortion to be wrong should consider carefully where we choose to spend our resouces. If I have $20 Dollars to send to a charity should I split between pro-life and pro-shelter charities or should I give the whole $20 to pro-life since human children are more important than animals?

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Given your previous post on putting all resources towards savings the unborn, could these resources have been better spent?

I assume you are refering to the resources of the Pro-Life groups.
I don’t know if they could be better spent or not. I am not privy to the details of their expendatures.

Peace
James

 

[Jean_1958]

But I do question continuing to breed “purebreeds” as long as the whole problem is not under control.

Private breeders are generally responsible people, as far as the nuturing of the puppies and care of the mother go. Maybe they can take a break for awhile, while we all work on this problem.

You need to keep the good lines going. It could take years to work out the problem. Not to mention, it may never be solved. So, you cannot just halt breeding altogether. Good lines will get lost or tainted even and certain breeds could face extinction.

Look at the world’s human population. We recently surpassed 6.5 billion. By 2050 there will be 3 billion more people to this planet. The planet can only hold so many people. We are not asking the general popualtion worldwide to stop having kids altogether until the problem can se solved, are we?

Jean

 

[Jean_1958]

But going back to the OP’s initial question: Is breeding animals wrong?

No. As long as it is done ethically, it is not wrong. It is the unethical breeding of animals, like backyard breeders and puppymillers, for example, that is wrong.

Jean

 

[4elise]

Yes they do. But they do so on an individual basis.

Certainly I can justify someone spending money on a purebreed dog. Sheepherders do so to get good dogs for helping them with their work. Hunters can purchase purebreed dog for the purpose of helping them put food on their families table. I have no problem at all with justifying this.
As for people who purchase purebred “lapdogs” and such, personally I have no use for pure pets of any kind and so would not make such a purchase. I cannot answer for others who may have justifications of their own.

I could consider that - yes.

The issue is far more complicated than your statement makes it out to be. I simply find it interesting that people in this country find it more desirable to protect dogs than unborn children. Those of us who believe abortion to be wrong should consider carefully where we choose to spend our resouces. If I have $20 Dollars to send to a charity should I split between pro-life and pro-shelter charities or should I give the whole $20 to pro-life since human children are more important than animals?

Peace
James

If I can offer any information on a switch to a vegan diet - I’ll be happy to do so. Please let me know.

I do see your point when faced with were to put the support - where to send that $20.00 — where to put our energy —

It is very frustrating however when people who do care about the care of animals are accused of ‘caring more’ about animals - we can care about all this and work to keep the right priorities - just like all of us striving to walk in this world…

International missions are a big part of my life, and most of our disposable resources go to support these type of organizations

God Bless,
Elise