Is buying music from a pro-gay marriage musician sinful? This is really causing some distress

[Nom_the_Wise]

You are correct, of course. Bringing Oscar Wilde into this thread seemed appropo; I thought my tone was sufficiently ironic.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Hardly. You distort the example beyond measure.

Serving a person lunch has nothing whatsoever do to with his political positions. Please. Give me a break.

Yes, it is a bit far out. But if you are not careful, this is exactly the kind of message that someone may get from reading your comment:

By buying their music, you are providing financial support that enables them to continue spreading their propaganda.

The implication here is that the financial support to the person is the thing that makes the purchase immoral. Well, if it is wrong to provide comfort to this person by buying his records then it is wrong to comfort this person by serving him lunch. After all, a good lunch will give him the strength to go on recording and spreading his propaganda. So it is not your conclusion I object to, but only the means by which you reach that conclusion.

Now to be fair to your point, if homosexual activism is their main defining characteristic, then probably ALL their music will be supportive of their agenda, and purchasing the works would be wrong under either my criteria or yours. The only reason I made the point to focus on the works more than the person is that I don’t want the reason you gave to be misapplied to artists that may not be that extreme, but are just “known” to be living a homosexual lifestyle (or morally deficient in some other way) but are not otherwise “activists”. If we adopt reasoning that says that making life easier for someone whose lifestyle we don’t approve of is wrong, then it could lead to that kind of ridiculous state where such people can’t get served at a restaurant.

I think this falls under the heading of “love the sinner, hate the sin”.

 

[Student26]

During confession today I (out of simple inquiry) asked the priest of buying music from a musician who was pro-gay marriage was a sin and without batting an eye said yes and proceeded to ask me “Why do a man and a woman get married?” I was going to say to have kids AND be in a monogamous, loving relationship, but I let him answer and, as expected, he only said the first part and that buying music from an artist who supports gay marriage causes is a sin because you’re giving them the funding to do so. I did not wish to get into a disagreement since time was limited to the others waiting to confess. I would like to add that he was very pleasant and put me at ease regarding other sins I had to confess so I DO NOT want to make him look like the bad guy in this situation. To me he just came across as being very conservative and I remained obedient to him nonetheless.

But in regards to the issue of buying or owning music (or any form of entertainment for that matter) from artists who are pro-LGBT/pro-gay marriage, etc., is it really sinful at all to buy, say music by Elton John, The Indigo Girls (who I mostly like for their rich acoustically-textured folk-ish sound), Lady Gaga, etc who have all supported some form of gay rights. Now for some being pro-LGBT is NOT about marriage/civil union rights, but about having the same rights as say straight single men and women (employment, housing, healthcare, etc.). Therefore, upon hearing that an artist is “pro-LGBT” is a very general term and doesn’t automatically or necessarily mean “pro-gay marriage”.

Lastly, if it is sinful, do we as Catholics have an obligation to try and find out if each and every one of the artists we have in our music collection, etc. (I have hundreds according to my iTunes library btw lol) has contributed in any way to any causes that are in direct or even indirect contradiction to the Catholic faith (even if they’ve also given very generously to other very worthy causes)?

Thank you for any answers/help/assistance/etc.

1. Priests do not enjoy infallibility.
2. No, it is not a sin.
3. It’s a matter of personal judgement. If a particular artist was a staunch advocate of paedophilia, you may find this so repugnant that you may want to withdraw your support for that artist… you buying the music of Lady Gaga has no real connection to the fact that she ‘loves the gays’. I think you’re in a real danger of becoming scrupulous over this…there is also the fact that the money you pay actually goes to the shop or business: the cds have already been bought from the record company…it’s not like you pay your £3 and HMV then goes and pays Lady Gaga £3.

Seriously: enjoy your music and stop worrying. I really have a feeling that Jesus gets tired of our ‘legalistic’ mindset to everything: fulfilling the law is a matter of love and not condemnation over whether our £3 has helped support a pro-gay marriage agenda of Lady Gaga’s.

Ahhh(!)

 

[iHeartThe60s]

Thank you for all your responses, even if I don’t entirely agree with all of them. I’ll now try to respond to as many of your replies as possible so this’ll be a longgg post

When you appreciate art you appreciate the art not what the artist does in bed, or, for the same matter, in the toilet…
Why should we buy music from heterosexual musics with funny sexual practices? Should we ask them what position they use before buying the music?

You raise a good point and a good question. It certainly would be an awkward question to ask

Many of the old artists we appreciate today, had very liberal views. And even Hitler liked to paint.

I think there’s a film about what may have happened if Hitler hadn’t been rejected from art school…twice.

From what I’ve heard, being pro-gay marriage is the least of sins most popular musician has. One word, “groupies”.

Yes, it is sinful to buy music when you know the artist supports an agenda that is sinful.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

Second question - no, you are not obligated to try and find out, but once you know, you are required to act.
See I’m just not sure if buying their records (of which the proceeds are split among the record company, record store, management, etc. the music industry is soo complicated ) is “cooperating” with their sin unless one were too send them a check and explicitly tell them, “Donate this to a pro-gay marriage group”. If I were a popular artist (I dream BIG btw ) myself I would be very open about my position on this matter and maybe my words would make the general public and other artists think and feel differently about Catholics and the Church as a whole. But nevertheless, I’ll keep that passage in mind. Thanks

Many Catholics should abandon the entertainments they have. For example, some enjoy music that openly celebrates sinful behavior. Or other forms of popular entertainment that celebrates sinful behavior. It is difficult to love such things and love God too. If we are Christians we should look first to the good of our souls. That said, I am not entirely sure about this advice from your confessor myself. You could seek counsel from another priest (who is orthodox) to see what he has to say. Still, what a priest says in confession as advice should be respected and you should seriously look into the question as to whether he is right or not.

I should point out that the music in question (at least what I listen to) doesn’t celebrate sin/ take it seriously/etc. I could never listen to a song that explicitly said something anti-Catholic without ignoring the lyrics. I do agree with you asking an orthodox confessor about this matter, though I will remain obedient to the other priest unless I am told on good authority that he was incorrect.

By buying their music, you are providing financial support that enables them to continue spreading their propaganda. This is obviously “mediate” material cooperation in evil, even though it is pretty remote. As for culpability, well, that’s really a prudential call on your part. The pennies and dimes they make from your buying tracks is insignificant, but if a few million of your closest friends agreed with you…

I’ll take what you’ve said into consideration. You do make a good point and this subject isn’t to be taken lightly.

Quit trying to rationalize what is an intent to mainstream the homosexual agenda. Employment, housing, and healthcare are not denied to homosexuals and are not a valid concern to anyone who claims to be pro-LGBT. There are many fabrications by this crowd to illustrate a discrimination that does not exist in an effort to get you to swallow whole, as an act of empathy, a deviant lifestyle. Apparently, you have swallowed it. Stop contributing to the enemy of souls.

Okay, first of all, I am NOT trying to rationalize any intent to mainstream the homosexual agenda. I do not approve of gay marriage or civil unions and would never encourage such behavior. Second, who’s to say that people haven’t been denied those 3 things due to their orientation. Discrimination is still a problem for some. For example, a negro can be pulled over simply because he’s a negro… in the 21st Century… Despite all the progress we’ve made as a nation… And may I add that in addition to those 3 things listed, there are LGBT groups who, unless I’m mistaken, have been running ads about all of the gay bullying in schools and the students who have committed suicide because of the bullying. And BTW if there’s anything I’ve swallowed certainly NOT gay marriage being an acceptable and good thing. I apologize if I sounded too harsh.

 

[iHeartThe60s]

…continued…

I think the question of buying music must take into account the nature of the music and it’s message. If the music itself promotes an evil lifestyle, then there is more justification for calling the purchase cooperation with evil. But if the artist happens to produce an uncharacteristically good or neutral message in a particular work, then I think buying that work itself would not be cooperation with evil. It would be the same as if the gay marriage advocate happened to be a roofer instead of a musician and you hired him to roof your house. Buying his services in that case is merely allowing him to continue to live. It is not celebrating his views that are unrelated to roofing.

That’s exactly what I’ve thought all this time. Well, up until yesterday at least.

Yes, it is a sin. Everyone knows that homosexuality is contagious, by buying anything that has had anything to do with them you are leaving yourself open to suddenly developing a keen love for Lady Gaga and musicals.

Was this intended to be sarcastic or are you being serious?

When a recording from an artist is purchased, some of the proceeds go to the artist. Most of the money goes to support the industry. The industry is broad and includes many people with various morals.

May I ad an industry that needs to stop “manufacturing” pop music like cars coming off an assembly line. I believe TRUE and GENUINE music is crafted from the heart and soul of the artist him or herself, even if it’s got a catchy ring to it

Regardless, nothing said here trumps what your priest told you in confession.

Oh believe me I’m a real Mr. Goodie Two Shoes when it comes to obedience to a priest. However, I do realize that priests are not always correct and can just as human as we are. This is not like if he were to say “Masturbation is not a mortal sin” which of course is VERY incorrect.

Now to be fair to your point, if homosexual activism is their main defining characteristic, then probably ALL their music will be supportive of their agenda, and purchasing the works would be wrong under either my criteria or yours. The only reason I made the point to focus on the works more than the person is that I don’t want the reason you gave to be misapplied to artists that may not be that extreme, but are just “known” to be living a homosexual lifestyle (or morally deficient in some other way) but are not otherwise “activists”. If we adopt reasoning that says that making life easier for someone whose lifestyle we don’t approve of is wrong, then it could lead to that kind of ridiculous state where such people can’t get served at a restaurant.

I think this falls under the heading of “love the sinner, hate the sin”.

I’m inclined to agree with what you said. I’m just staying neutral for now until someone on good authority tells me the same. But yes, “Hate the sin, love the sinner” is a code we all must live by.

1. Priests do not enjoy infallibility.

1. No, it is not a sin.

1. It’s a matter of personal judgement. If a particular artist was a staunch advocate of paedophilia, you may find this so repugnant that you may want to withdraw your support for that artist… you buying the music of Lady Gaga has no real connection to the fact that she ‘loves the gays’. I think you’re in a real danger of becoming scrupulous over this…there is also the fact that the money you pay actually goes to the shop or business: the cds have already been bought from the record company…it’s not like you pay your £3 and HMV then goes and pays Lady Gaga £3.

Seriously: enjoy your music and stop worrying. I really have a feeling that Jesus gets tired of our ‘legalistic’ mindset to everything: fulfilling the law is a matter of love and not condemnation over whether our £3 has helped support a pro-gay marriage agenda of Lady Gaga’s.

Ahhh(!)

I found your post to be very true to what I’ve believed for a some time. And actually, I do suffer from scrupulosity though I don’t want to use that as an excuse/want any confessors, etc. to treat me any differently (I mentioned that to the priest in confession yesterday as well.) When I was in the car on the way home (I was in MA for the day going back to CT) I started to wonder how many other musicians support gay marriage, etc. and for the rest of the drive I refused to listen to just about ALL of the music I had on my iPod out of fear I’d be sinning by listening to an artist that supports x, y, and z without bothering to find out if they have (turns out Bruce Springsteen supports/has supported gay marriage) the only exception being Gerry Rafferty, who was from what I understand very Catholic in his life and his music. And even then I was afraid that I’d be committing a sin by assuming that he himself never supported such causes just because he was Catholic. I know, I’m probably sounding ridiculous, but I’ve just become one of those “Live by the rules or burn in hell for eternity” types.

If Jesus is really getting tired of Catholics having an uber ‘legalistic’ attitude, I want him to give us a sign that we need to let that attitude go that’s so strong we couldn’t ignore it. If not that, that he’d look at me in the eye and say “set yourself free from your worries”.

Thank you for all your replies. I know I should seek advice from a priest who I know is Orthodox to the t, but I’ve found some great answers here before (for those of you who haven’t seen any of my previous threads) so I thought I’d ask y’all.

Take care and God Bless

 

[LP4H]

I have a hard time seeing how this is a sin. I do see how it could lead to sin. I was under the impression that the Church’s stance on music was that it’s morally neutral unless it leads you to act in a way contrary to God’s will. If an artist’s music contains heavy anti-God messages, yes, we should avoid it, but listening to it isn’t a sin until we start to believe the message is right.

I understand the subject at hand is the question of whether buying an artist’s music when we know the artist’s personal views (in this case, pro-LGBT) is sinful or not. It seems to me that unless the artist has specifically stated proceeds will go to LGBT causes and the music itself doesn’t celebrate this lifestyle and/or doesn’t lead you down a bad path, all you’re really paying for is the music an artist has produced that you happen to enjoy.

For example, my favorite artist is a liberal that has stated that he supports gay marriage. I am of course absolutely opposed to this, as well as the implication (though AFAIK he’s never said one way or the other) that he supports pro-choice. However, his views aren’t really apparent in his music at all. On the contrary, he’s had some beautiful, very spiritual lyrics. His personal views have no bearing on what I believe. Am I sinning by purchasing his new releases & seeing him in concert (I’m not being smart, either. Seriously, is there a sin there I’m just not seeing)?

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

Not trying to argue with you, JM3, because I see where you’re coming from, but I just don’t see how this really applies here.

*by participating directly and voluntarily in them; * AKA Me and/or an accomplice kill a guy.

*by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them; * AKA I order a hit, I help plan a hit, I know of a hit I think that’s justified/a good idea.

*** by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;*** AKA I know who killed a guy, and I choose to let him go free without telling the cops.

by protecting evil-doers. AKA I house a killer and have no intention of telling the cops.

Again, unless an artist states they’re going to give proceeds from an album/concert to LGBT causes, I just can’t see how this is cooperation in evil. We’re paying for the product they’ve released, not funding an LGBT rally. Beyond that, what they do with the payment has no bearing on us. Their personal views are just that: theirs. I’d hate to be judged on work I’ve done or have it rejected just because I’m Catholic, when one has no relation to the other.

I’m not trying to rationalize any sin, though, so if I’ve got this all wrong, please, go easy on me. And, it’s always important to have God on our minds first. If something is taking away from that, we should limit or avoid it. It’s tough, but worth it.

Couple final notes: 1) With secular music in general it’s always best to have first in mind what God REALLY wants. For example, I’ve been listening to a lot of country lately and what jumps out at me is that for a genre where a lot of it’s people claim to be God fearing (as opposed to a lot of modern rockers), there’s an awful lot of lustful, apparently pre-marital sex going on. What kind of message is that? 2) Priests are most definitely NOT infallible. I know one that, while a good guy, is ridiculously light on mortal sin. I won’t go into detail about what was said, but someone not knowing better could easily be lead down a bad path (needless to say, I try to avoid that Priest come confession time). It’s important to be respectful of a Priest’s advice, but if something strikes you as odd, you should try to get some kind of clarification. 3) Be very careful when it comes to scruples. We should be ready to combat sin, but seeing sin where there’s none can very easily lead us into a legalistic, joyless view of God.

 

[JM3]

Who did that?

This kind of rationalizing.

I’ve bought their albums since then.

Everyone knows that homosexuality is contagious, by buying anything that has had anything to do with them you are leaving yourself open to suddenly developing a keen love for Lady Gaga and musicals.

1. It’s a matter of personal judgement. If a particular artist was a staunch advocate of paedophilia, you may find this so repugnant that you may want to withdraw your support for that artist… you buying the music of Lady Gaga has no real connection to the fact that she ‘loves the gays’.

 

[JM3]

but I just don’t see how this really applies here.

by participating directly and voluntarily in them; AKA Me and/or an accomplice kill a guy.

by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them; AKA I order a hit, I help plan a hit, I know of a hit I think that’s justified/a good idea.

*** by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;*** AKA I know who killed a guy, and I choose to let him go free without telling the cops.

by protecting evil-doers. AKA I house a killer and have no intention of telling the cops.

Your examples are external. Look to your heart and to your will.

 

[JM3]

See I’m just not sure if buying their records (of which the proceeds are split among the record company, record store, management, etc. the music industry is soo complicated ) is “cooperating” with their sin unless one were too send them a check and explicitly tell them, “Donate this to a pro-gay marriage group”.

‘Because I don’t give them money directly, then I am not to blame.’

In the words of the 60’s…

cop out

 

[Student26]

This kind of rationalizing.

You are accusing me of ‘rationalizing’? If you really think that buying a Lady Gaga CD is tantamount to ‘supporting a pro-gay marriage campaign’ then I think you have some serious issues regarding personal judgement/ complicity/ culpability.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

The works of Oscar Wilde were recently praised by L’Osservatore Romano: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1200167/Vatican-does-U-turn-praise-Oscar-Wilde.html Apparently we are now allowed to read the works of this homosexual sinner.

But a repentant sinner who converted to the Catholic faith.

I used to not be bothered by immoral material because it was ‘just’ music. But these days I find I can’t enjoy things that are immoral. That includes artists who support causes that are contrary to my faith. I’m not being political here, I simply don’y enjoy what they produce because my faith is central to who i am.

I think the question is what the OP truly values and places as the most important thing in life.

 

[LP4H]

Your examples are external. Look to your heart and to your will.

I really am trying to look at this from all sides.

by participating directly and voluntarily in them; - Doesn’t really apply to the subect at hand. It could apply, say, if you were to help fund or attend an LGBT rally with heavy ties to a given artist, or the artist specifically says or you have good reason to believe that profits from an album/concert will go towards LGBT causes. That’s what directly and voluntarily means to me, and I can’t see a faithful Christian going for that.

by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them; - Ordering and advising don’t apply to the subject, unless, say, the artist covers your pro-LGBT song, or you give the artist the idea that they should do a big pro-LGBT album. As for praising and approving, who’s doing either? I don’t see how buying a CD approves of an artist’s opinion. Now, I do understand that if a song/album/etc. has strong anti-Christian sentiments to it, purchasing it could say to the artist “Hey, I approve of this! Gimme more!”, but if their views and music are two separate things, all you’re approving of is their music.

by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so; - If an artist was releasing songs that had blatant anti-Christian themes to them, of course we shouldn’t buy them. I can’t see a devout Christian doing so anyway. But, if we’re not buying something because we’re opposed to their views when they have no bearing on the music, what are we really hindering them from? Releasing more music that’s neither pro-straight nor pro-gay? Does buying Elton John’s Greatest Hits tell him that you’re glad he’s gay, or does it say he’s released some songs you happen to like? That’s just an example, BTW. I’m not an EJ fan and really have no idea if he’s done blatantly pro-gay songs or not.

by protecting evil-doers. - I suppose it could be said you’re protecting an evil doer by supporting them in evil endeavors, but if their produced work is morally neutral? Is buying that CD really supporting them in supporting LGBT causes, or is it just supporting their musical output? Assuming their musical output isn’t overwhelmingly opposed to our faith, I mean.

Just because a view of an artist is morally wrong doesn’t mean everything they have done or will do is also automatically morally wrong, or that enjoying a certain produced work is a sin.

Again, I’m not trying to argue, because I really do see where you’re coming from. For example (and this may make me sound a bit hypocritical), I won’t have anything to do with Jimmy Page (no great loss, since I can’t stand Zeppelin anyway). But, that’s a personal decision, if I went out and bought some Zep purely because I wanted to hear their music, would that be a sin? As the Church says (well, I thought said), it’s a personal call. You’ve got to see what effects you positively and negatively, what is blatantly contrary & harmful to your faith, stay away from the bad, enjoy the good, but don’t place it above God.

I don’t know, maybe I’m dead wrong on this. Maybe someone should take this to the Ask An Apologist forum?

 

[Nom_the_Wise]

You are accusing me of ‘rationalizing’? If you really think that buying a Lady Gaga CD is tantamount to ‘supporting a pro-gay marriage campaign’ then I think you have some serious issues regarding personal judgement/ complicity/ culpability.

No I think JM3 was accusing me of rationalizing, which I was. 80% of what I say is an attempt at humor–an attempt, mind you.

The point is, we all rationalize (and let me not generaliz–I rationalize). If I’m being honest with myself, I can acknowledge that there are many things that I’ve rationalized. I was tempted to take JM3 to task, as it were, but I think it’s good to be reminded that I’ve imperiled my soul too many times and it takes its effect.

 

[Student26]

But a repentant sinner who converted to the Catholic faith.

Hmm. I don’t think the fact that Oscar Wilde converted to Catholicism on his death bed is evidence that he was a ‘repentant sinner’. The fact is that we don’t know quite why Wilde converted (he certainly had an enormous aesthetic interest in Catholicism).

I’ve noticed that Catholics on here tend to have two intellectual approaches to life: Good/ Evil.

 

[Nom_the_Wise]

But a repentant sinner who converted to the Catholic faith.

I used to not be bothered by immoral material because it was ‘just’ music. But these days I find I can’t enjoy things that are immoral. That includes artists who support causes that are contrary to my faith. I’m not being political here, I simply don’y enjoy what they produce because my faith is central to who i am.

I think the question is what the OP truly values and places as the most important thing in life.

Very true, BUT it could be said that the vast body of his work was written while he was not converted. That’s a hard line to tow, I know. I think that was the point I was trying to make. During his much of his life the content of his work was not particularly morally objectionable, while his behavior was. This speaks to the OP in that what if “a pro-gay marriage” artist produced works that were not morally objectionable, while embracing this philosophy? And then this same artist, on his or her death bed, embraced Christ and died in communion with the Church, just like Oscar Wilde.

 

[Castello]

Imagine that next week your entire music collection - your CDs, your mp3s, your cassettes - albums and even 8 tracks - all of it will be listed in the parish bulletin. Your loved pastor, those kids you teach in CCD, the guys from Parish council, they will all read the list.

Now, what do you get rid of? What we buy, what we consume, reveals some of who we are and what we love.

 

[JM3]

You are accusing me of ‘rationalizing’?

When you use one sin to make another seem less sinful or not sinful, then yes.

1. It’s a matter of personal judgement. If a particular artist was a staunch advocate of paedophilia, you may find this so repugnant that you may want to withdraw your support for that artist… you buying the music of Lady Gaga has no real connection to the fact that she ‘loves the gays’.

 

[Student26]

Imagine that next week your entire music collection - your CDs, your mp3s, your cassettes - albums and even 8 tracks - all of it will be listed in the parish bulletin. Your loved pastor, those kids you teach in CCD, the guys from Parish council, they will all read the list.

Now, what do you get rid of? What we buy, what we consume, reveals some of who we are and what we love.

Fortunately even Catholics are entitled to a private life and we don’t (or at least should not) be fearful as to what the next Catholic might think of our CD or magazine collection…I like Lady Gaga for example, I also happen to like her pro-gay line that she takes and I enjoy the fact that she probably encourages a lot of young gays to feel confident/ comfortable with who they are.

 

[Student26]

When you use one sin to make another seem less sinful or not sinful, then yes.

Lady Gaga or Elton John supporting gay marriage is not a sin, full stop. They may be misinformed and we may rightfully disagree with their reasoning but it’s not a ‘sin’ to support something.

There will be Catholics women that support abortion; that’s not a sin. They may well be misinformed but we do not know their hearts and it’s not for us (you!) to accuse people of sin.

 

[utah_rose]

I love Elton John’s music and for a long time ignored that he was gay. However, when he made a statement saying that “Jesus was gay”, I ended up deleting all of his songs from my ITUNES library. I think he is a very talented guy but you have to draw a line somewhere. I just hope and pray that some day he will change his mind about that.

I also deleted Madonna’s because of some of her sacriligous performances and remarks.

I’m not a prude and I try not to be judgmental, but when it comes to some obvious things, I choose not buy their music or listen to them.

Otherwise, I listen to many types of music, but because I’m a boomer my music is mostly by artists who weren’t doing this yet. I love the Beatles, but I also chose to not include John Lennon’s Imagine because of the lyrics of the song. I liked John Lennon however, and it’s not for me to judge if he believed in God or not.