Is Byzantine and Ruthenian the same Church?

[lak611]

Laura

We are used to visitors .

We love having visitors

We know how to behave to them as we want them to feel at home with us.

I promise no one will point fingers at you or glare if you do something we don’t.

The only thing I would say - and I know you will have remembered this is - Please don’t hold out your hands for Communion , or stick out your tongue

just go - relax and enjoy it

oh and then come back again , and again , and ag …

Thanks! I do remember how to receive Communion. I’m glad to hear that I will be welcomed.

 

[lak611]

There are two distinct particular churches.
Are the nationalities are distinct?

Ruthenian, from the encyclopedia link above, encompasses both people who would identify today as Ukrainians (or more specifically as Western-Ukrainians or Galicians), as well as those who would call themselves Rusyns. (It is largely a matter of which side of the mountains you were from - a fact of geography that formed your history.) Some Ukrainians insist that Rusyns are Ukrainians; this was official policy of Easter European governments in the Soviet era.

The BCC in America originated from Rusyn immigrants; the UGCC from Ukrainians.
Here are some links about Rusyns:
c-rs.org/
rusyn.org/index.html
unpo.org/member_profile.php?id=44

Are the liturgies the same? Substantially.
English? Would vary from parish to parish in both Churches (in the US), but it probably safe to say that the BCC uses English predominantly; the UGCC has more Slavonic and/or Ukrainian.

I found the e-mail address of the parish I am interested in going to in the link another poster provided and asked the parish when the Divine Liturgy is offered in English. I really would not mind if there are some prayers in Slavonic or Ukranian, since I have been to Masses with Latin and do not understand Latin either. However, I would prefer to hear the readings and sermon in English.

 

[dvdjs]

I found out that there are Maronite and Melkite Churches in Cleveland too.  I want to go to Divine Liturgy at all of these at some point, but I do not want to do something stupid when I am there, so that's why I am asking these questions.

Well you live in a great place to get first hand experience.
Don’t worry about asking questions or just plunging in. Wannabee’s advice is perfect: just go - relax and enjoy.

 

[dvdjs]

**So then, is Ukranian Catholic and Ruthenian Catholic the same Church, only a different nationality? **

**At one time, the answer would be sort of yes. The Union of Uzhorod (Ruthenians) was 50 years after the Union of Brest, and was treated canonically as an extension of it. Both Ruthenians and Ukrainians sent representatives to the Synod of Zamosc.

But Pius X separated the Ruthenian and Ukrainians, based on which slope of the Carpathians you came from: north, you were Ukrainian, south, Ruthenian.**

Bpbasilphx:

In the old country, there were associations between the Galicians (after their later entry into communion) and Rusyns, but there were distinctions; I don’t think that one can support the idea that we were the same “Church”; the concept is anachronistic, anyway. In the US, the distinctiveness of identity led to our going separate ways at the level of our brotherhoods already back in the 1890’s, long before Pius X honored our request to have our own bishops.

 

[lak611]

Bpbasilphx:

In the old country, there were associations between the Galicians (after their later entry into communion) and Rusyns, but there were distinctions; I don’t think that one can support the idea that we were the same “Church”; the concept is anachronistic, anyway. In the US, the distinctiveness of identity led to our going separate ways at the level of our brotherhoods already back in the 1890’s, long before Pius X honored our request to have our own bishops.

I am not familiar with Galicians or Rusyns. What modern country is located where their countries once were?

 

[Aramis]

Would the Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral parish be in Russian?

No. Church Slavonic or English for a Ruthenian Cathedral in the US, more likely English.

But if you know russian, it should be no issue.

 

[DL82]

Laura

We are used to visitors .

We love having visitors

We know how to behave to them as we want them to feel at home with us.

I promise no one will point fingers at you or glare if you do something we don’t.

The only thing I would say - and I know you will have remembered this is - Please don’t hold out your hands for Communion , or stick out your tongue

just go - relax and enjoy it

oh and then come back again , and again , and ag …

I went to Divine Liturgy at the Melkite Catholic Church here in London (Priest is Arabic, Deacon is English, they do their bits of the liturgy in their own respective languages obviously). I had gone with a friend who was studying Arabic, it was my 2nd time at an Eastern Divine Liturgy.

Anyway, we arrive, sit down, and the Priest (who had only ever said ‘hello’ to me before) comes over and puts an English language lectionary in my hand and asks me to read the scripture readings in English. I of course have no idea when I’m supposed to stop or start, the introduction to the readings being in Arabic, but take the long pause after the Arabic lector has read to be my cue. Was met by polite silence by the Deacon after the service when I asked if I’d come in at the right place

Still, I’ve never felt more at the heart of a church community after only one day!

 

[Aramis]

I am not familiar with Galicians or Rusyns. What modern country is located where their countries once were?

Depends upon context. It’s either (1) a small region of Spain on the Portugese border or (2) a former kingdom in the SW of the Ukraine and the SE of Poland.

In this context, I believe it is referring to (2)

 

[dvdjs]

I am not familiar with Galicians or Rusyns. What modern country is located where their countries once were?

Some maps for you.
c-rs.org/geography.html
rollintl.com/roll/galicia.htm

 

[lak611]

Some maps for you.
c-rs.org/geography.html
rollintl.com/roll/galicia.htm

Thank you for these links. This is very fascinating. I would venture to say that many people here in the USA probably are not sure if they are Polish, Ukranian, Rusyn, Russian, Hungarian, or Galician. Those nationalities have been so interconnected and the boundaries of the countries have changed so much over the years.

 

[Edwin1961]

Laura,
I may have told you (or you read it in a thread here) that there are 3 Byzantine Catholic parishes near each other…and my pastor runs two of the three).

• St. Stephen’s in Euclid
• St. Andrew the First Called Apostle, Mentor on the Lake (i’m 3 minutes away walking distance).
• St. Michael the Archangel in Fairport Harbor.

My pasto has the last two on the list.
In fact, my pastor is also a Protopresbyter. (he is in charge of all the pastors of the State of Ohio).

Eariler it was mentioned about our Bishop John. I just met him for the numpteenth time this past Sunday at an Eparchy function in Lorarin Co. Always a charming man to talk to!

 

[lak611]

Laura,
I may have told you (or you read it in a thread here) that there are 3 Byzantine Catholic parishes near each other…and my pastor runs two of the three).

• St. Stephen’s in Euclid
• St. Andrew the First Called Apostle, Mentor on the Lake (i’m 3 minutes away walking distance).
• St. Michael the Archangel in Fairport Harbor.

My pasto has the last two on the list.
In fact, my pastor is also a Protopresbyter. (he is in charge of all the pastors of the State of Ohio).

Eariler it was mentioned about our Bishop John. I just met him for the numpteenth time this past Sunday at an Eparchy function in Lorarin Co. Always a charming man to talk to!

I’m not far from St. John the Baptist Cathedral (Byzantine Catholic) and St. Josaphat Cathedral (Ukranian Catholic) in Parma or St. Elias (Melkite Catholic) in Brooklyn. St. Maron (Maronite Catholic) is downtown and not far either. Those are the parishes I will probably visit first. I may make it out to your parish in the spring, once the weather is nice again. I do know that the Mentor area and I-90/US 2 are not good in terms of snow/weather.

 

[Patchunky]

I am not familiar with Galicians or Rusyns. What modern country is located where their countries once were?

Galicia, at one time, was located in both Austria-Hungary & Russia, then Poland and today is in both Poland and Ukraine.

Rusyns live in Poland, Ukraine, Slovakia, Hungary and Croatia.

Hope this helps…

 

[lak611]

Galicia, at one time, was located in both Austria-Hungary & Russia, then Poland and today is in both Poland and Ukraine.

Rusyns live in Poland, Ukraine, Slovakia, Hungary and Croatia.

Hope this helps…

That does help. So did the map that another poster provided. I kind of wonder if I may have some Rusyn or Galician nationality myself because my great-great grandfather was listed as being Polish and my great-great grandmother was listed as Austrian on their immigration documents. I don’t remember what towns they were from.

 

[Patchunky]

That does help. So did the map that another poster provided. I kind of wonder if I may have some Rusyn or Galician nationality myself because my great-great grandfather was listed as being Polish and my great-great grandmother was listed as Austrian on their immigration documents. I don’t remember what towns they were from.

Hi Laura

Do you know if they came through Ellis Island? Do you also know your grandmother’s maiden name. If so, you can go to www.ellisislandrecords.org and look up their emmigration records. you can find their names, where they were going in the US, where they came from in the "Old Country’, who paid for the passage, how much money they had with them and when and where they left from.

It may take some time depending on the spellings of the names. Sometimes they names are spelled in Hungarian and you may be used to seeing them spelled differently. Also the names of the villages may also be in Hungarian which would make it differnent from the names you know.

If you need any help, please let me know and I’ll help as much as I can…

mark

 

[lak611]

Hi Laura

Do you know if they came through Ellis Island? Do you also know your grandmother’s maiden name. If so, you can go to www.ellisislandrecords.org and look up their emmigration records. you can find their names, where they were going in the US, where they came from in the "Old Country’, who paid for the passage, how much money they had with them and when and where they left from.

It may take some time depending on the spellings of the names. Sometimes they names are spelled in Hungarian and you may be used to seeing them spelled differently. Also the names of the villages may also be in Hungarian which would make it differnent from the names you know.

If you need any help, please let me know and I’ll help as much as I can…

mark

Thanks! I will check out that site. She came from what was Austro-Hungary at the time. I will check the Ellis Island website because I know that is where they came to the US. I believe my great-great grandfather (Polish) entered the US in Baltimore.

 

[lak611]

Patchunky,

I just did some checking with a few sources…

Evidently the news on the changes in the Metropolia is unofficial. Nothing has been announced at all along these lines, so it might be prudent at this point to refrain from posting on this until it is officially announced. Otherwise it is all just rumor and conjecture.

God bless,

Gordo

How often does the Bishop say the Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral? Would I be able to find out when the Bishop is going to be saying Divine Liturgy? What is Divine Liturgy like when said by a Bishop?

 

[Hesychios]

I was reading the thread about changing rites and noticed this: I do not live far from the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist. The sign on the church says “Byzantine Catholic”. In the other thread, in the post I quoted, it mentions Ruthenian. Is the Byzantine Church the same thing as the Ruthenian Church?

To readdress…in brief there are many Byzantine Catholic churches.

The Ruthenians are one of several.

They originally used Slavonic exclusively, but in the 1960’s the Metropolia of Pittsbugh translated their liturgy into the common vernacular in the USA, English.

I believe that in the corresponding churches in central Europe (Sub-Carpathian, or south of that mountain chain) one is more than likely going to encounter Slavonic, although Hungarian and Slovak is used in places as the local vernacular.
*
Michael*

 

[lak611]

To readdress…in brief there are many Byzantine Catholic churches.

The Ruthenians are one of several.

They originally used Slavonic exclusively, but in the 1960’s the Metropolia of Pittsbugh translated their liturgy into the common vernacular in the USA, English.

I believe that in the corresponding churches in central Europe (Sub-Carpathian, or south of that mountain chain) one is more than likely going to encounter Slavonic, although Hungarian and Slovak is used in places as the local vernacular.
*
Michael*

Thank you. That helps.

 

[XPICTIANOC]

Слава Исусу Христосу

In Poland is ony one ruthenian parish we call it “slavic-biznantine rit” and it is under on latin bishop. Ukrainian church has own hierarchy with two bishops.

oh, and the main different is that parish in Kostomłoty (ruthenian) uses old slavic church language (as orthodox in Poland) and Ukrainian greek-catholic church uses ukrainian language.

kostomloty-parafia-unicka.siedlce.opoka.org.pl/parafia_e.htm