Is Calvinism For Christ?

[Isaiah45_9]

The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox’s gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

Last I checked Paul preached:

[bibledrb]Galatians 1:8[/bibledrb]

Paul says “we” and not individuals like you do. When we preach, we preach as a Church, as a Community, not as individuals.

And last I checked, Knox doesn’t have a Gospel. There’s one Gospel and that of Jesus Christ and there’s only 4 writers that recorded it: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John; and they are all Catholic, as is Augustine; and as is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by our Lord and Savior: Jesus Christ.

[bibledrb]1 Timothy 3:15[/bibledrb]

 

[manualman]

The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God.

OK, then. You ready to read up on what St. Paul and St. Augustine taught about the Real Presence in the Eucharist and contrast that with how Clavin rejected it and introduced his own false ideas?

I didn’t think so.

 

[Christian_Unity]

OK, then. You ready to read up on what St. Paul and St. Augustine taught about the Real Presence in the Eucharist and contrast that with how Clavin rejected it and introduced his own false ideas?

I didn’t think so.

Do Catholics receive all the views and teaching of Augustine as Sacred Tradition; or do you guys receive some of his beliefs and teaching?

Did Augustine Teach the Sinlessness of Mary?

“Now with the exception of the holy Virgin Mary in regard to whom, out of respect for the Lord, I do not propose to have a single question raised on the subject of sin – after all, how do we know what greater degree of grace for a complete victory over sin was conferred on her who merited to conceive and bring forth Him who all admit was without sin – to repeat then: with the exception of this Virgin, if we could bring together into one place all those holy men and women, while they lived here, and ask them whether they were without sin, what are we to suppose that they would have replied?” (On Nature and Grace, or De natura et gratia, Migne PL 44:267)

Augustine (354-430):

This being the case, ever since the time when by one man sin thus entered into this world and death by sin, and so it passed through to all men, up to the end of this carnal generation and perishing world, the children of which beget and are begotten, there never has existed, nor ever will exist, a human being of whom, placed in this life of ours, it could be said that he had no sin at all, with the exception of the one Mediator, who reconciles us to our Maker through the forgiveness of sins.

NPNF1: Vol. V, On Merits and Forgiveness of Sins, and on the Baptism of Infants, Book II, Chapter 47.

Augustine (354-430):
Let us hold fast, then, the confession of this faith, without filtering or failure. One alone is there who was born without sin, in the likeness of sinful flesh, who lived without sin amid the sins of others, and who died without sin on account of our sins. “Let us turn neither to the right hand nor to the left.” For to turn to the right hand is to deceive oneself, by saying that we are without sin; and to turn to the left is to surrender oneself to one’s sins with a sort of impunity, in I know not how perverse and depraved a recklessness. “God indeed knoweth the ways on the right hand,” even He who alone is without sin, and is able to blot out our sins; “but the ways on the left hand are perverse,” in friendship with sins.
NPNF1: Vol. V, On Merits and Forgiveness of Sins, and on the Baptism of Infants, Book II, Chapter 57 [XXXV].

Augustine (354-430 AD): See, here is Ambrose; see what he says about what you are attacking. He says, “He could not alone be righteous, since the whole human race went astray, if it were not that, because he was born of a virgin, he was not held by the law of the guilty race.” Listen further; listen and stop the impudent tongue of your effrontery by shedding tears: “For intercourse with a man did not open the gates of the Virgin’s womb; rather, the Holy Spirit poured spotless seed into that inviolable womb. For among those born of a woman the holy Lord Jesus was absolutely the only one who did not experience the contagion of earthly corruption because of the new manner of his immaculate birth; rather, he shrugged it off by his celestial majesty.” John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed., Works of Saint Augustine, Answer to the Pelagians III, Unfinished Work in Answer to Julian, Book I:66, Part 1, Vol. 25, trans. Roland J. Teske, S.J. (Hyde Park: New City Press, 1999), p. 91.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Augustine (354-430):
Therefore it is true that in the sight of God “shall no man living be justified,” and yet that “the just shall live by his faith.” On the one hand, “the saints are clothed with righteousness,” one more, another less; on the other hand, no one lives here wholly without sin—one sins more, another less, and the best is the man who sins least.
NPNF1: Vol. I, Letters of St. Augustin, Letter 167 - To Jerome, Chapter 3, §13.

Augustine (354-430):
For, if no soul is propagated from another, while all souls are enclosed in flesh descended from sinful flesh, how much less credible is it that His soul could have come by propagation from a sinful woman, whereas his flesh came from a virgin and was not conceived in lust, that He might be ‘in the likeness of sinful flesh,’ not in sinful flesh!
See FC, Vol. 30, Saint Augustine Letters 165-203, Letter 190, to Optatus (New York: Fathers of the Church, Inc., 1955), p. 287.

Augustine (354-430):
In the advice and admonition he gives that I rather apply my effort to stamping out this deadly heresy from the Churches, he refers to that same Pelagian heresy which I urge you, my brother, with all my strength, to avoid with the utmost care, whenever you either think or argue about the origin of souls, so that the belief may not steal upon you that any soul at all, save that of the unique Mediator, was free from inheritance of Adam, that original sin under which we are bound when we are begotten but from which we are freed by our second birth.
FC, Vol. 30, Saint Augustine Letters 165-203, Letter 202A, To Optatus (New York: Fathers of the Church, Inc., 1955), p. 420.

For wholly alone of those born of woman was our Holy Lord Jesus, Who by the strangeness of His undefiled Birth has not suffered the pollutions of earthly corruption, but dispelled them by heavenly majesty.
Saint Ambrose of Milan, Exposition of the Holy Gospel according to Saint Luke, trans. Theodosia Tomkinson (Etna: Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies, 1998), Book II, §56, p. 59.

Ambrose (c. 339-97): No Conception is without iniquity, since there are no parents who have not fallen. (Nec conceptus iniquitatis exsors est, quoniam et parentes non carent lapsu. ) Prophetae David ad Theodosium Augustum, Caput XI, PL 14:873; for translation, see I. D. E. Thomas, The Golden Treasury of Patristic Quotations (Oklahoma City: Hearthstone Publishing, 1996), p. 258.

Ambrose (c. 339-97):
So, then, no one is without sin except God alone, for no one is without sin except God. Also, no one forgives sins except God alone, for it is also written: “Who can forgive sins but God alone?” And one cannot be the Creator of all except he be not a creature, and he who is not a creature is without doubt God; for it is written: “They worshipped the creature rather than the Creator, Who is God blessed for ever.” God also does not worship, but is worshipped, for it is written: “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shall thou serve.”
NPNF2: Vol. X, On the Holy Spirit, Book III, Chapter 18, §133.

Ambrose (c. 339-97):
Let us therefore consider whether the Holy Spirit have any of these marks which may bear witness to His Godhead. And first let us treat of the point that none is without sin except God alone, and demand that they prove that the Holy Spirit has sin.
NPNF2: Vol. X, On the Holy Spirit, Book III, Chapter 18, §134.

 

[benjohnson]

Christian Unity, given that you’ve spend a lot of time with use sharing the Gospel - I don’t understand…

With the theology of double predestination, isn’t that a waste of time? Are we not all already destined to our fate?

So would you time not be better spent in deep despair on not knowing if your family is truly going to be with the elect in the end? To be here on CAF and sharing the Gospel seems rather optimistic and hopeful behavior.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Christian Unity, given that you’ve spend a lot of time with use sharing the Gospel - I don’t understand…

With the theology of double predestination, isn’t that a waste of time? Are we not all already destined to our fate?

So would you time not be better spent in deep despair on not knowing if your family is truly going to be with the elect in the end? To be here on CAF and sharing the Gospel seems rather optimistic and hopeful behavior.

Thanks for the comment Ben. Certainly the topic of predestination can side track us on the more central issues like justification by faith, yet the doctrine of predestination is a biblical doctrine which should be understood within the gospel. Since you are Lutheran, I believe Martin Luther taught predestination with greater force than Calvin. I think the doctrine of predestination brings everything back to a God-centered gospel in which enables us to give God all the glory for saving wretched sinners like me and you. There seems to be a struggle of the gospel being God-centered or man-centered, depending on a person’s theology of the cross.

 

[ffg]

Here are the two basic premises a Catholic must hold, as I understand them.

Premise one, God’s predestination of efficacious and gratuitous grace.

1. Man cannot be saved without the efficacious and gratuitous grace given by God alone. The elect that God chooses are are not chosen because God foresees how the elect will respond to His grace, but because of His grace alone. The Council of Trent tells us that the gift of final perseverance cannot be obtained or merited, but it is given by God as a gift. Complete predestination, which includes first grace, as well as a series of graces up until glorification, is gratuitous and is chosen by God previous to foreseen merits. It is not based upon God’s foreknowledge. Finally no man can boast of being better than another, because it is God’s grace only that can elevate man to being better than another, not one’s own choices or works. If we say that we choose or act better than another apart from God’s grace, and as a result we are saved because of that choice or act, then we surely will be able to boast that we are better than another.

There is much in this paragraph that is not correct, not because the words are necessarily all wrong, but by confusing yourself by cherry picking information and pasting it together.

How about a little simplicity -

It is your choice to prepare, or not for an interview. Regardless of either path you pick, you are not owed the job.

We are so unworthy of anything God does for us.

BUT - He also came to earth and provided a Church and with it instructions.

Why instruct, if not for a purpose? God’s pretty smart, I’m guessing he doesn’t waste a lot of time like us.

 

[benjohnson]

Since you are Lutheran, I believe Martin Luther taught predestination with greater force than Calvin.

Luther had strong views on merit and justification, but always held that one could fall away from grace. In Lutheran theology, being in a state of grace is also perilous - in that God has given us a gift that we must handle with utmost care and devotion.

I think the doctrine of predestination brings everything back to a God-centered gospel in which enables us to give God all the glory for saving wretched sinners like me and you. There seems to be a struggle of the gospel being God-centered or man-centered, depending on a person’s theology of the cross.

Lutherans think we should always point to God as the source of our salvation and even the source of our desire for Him, but we say we don’t have to place limits on His generosity and love in order to acknowledge that fact.

The idea of double predestination strikes Lutherans a incorrect, not because it limits the human response to God’s desires for us, but because it places limits on God’s love for all of us in that Christ died for all sinners, and not just a subset of those sinners.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Luther had strong views on merit and justification, but always held that one could fall away from grace. In Lutheran theology, being in a state of grace is also perilous - in that God has given us a gift that we must handle with utmost care and devotion.

Lutherans think we should always point to God as the source of our salvation and even the source of our desire for Him, but we say we don’t have to place limits on His generosity and love in order to acknowledge that fact.

The idea of double predestination strikes Lutherans a incorrect, not because it limits the human response to God’s desires for us, but because it places limits on God’s love for all of us in that Christ died for all sinners, and not just a subset of those sinners.

I know many Calvinists struggle with the doctrine of double predestination. Here’s a link on it if you want to study it from a Reformed view.

ligonier.org/learn/articles/double-predestination/

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I know many Calvinists struggle with the doctrine of double predestination. Here’s a link on it if you want to study it from a Reformed view.

ligonier.org/learn/articles/double-predestination/

You are walking a fine line into Proselytizing.

 

[Christian_Unity]

You are walking a fine line into Proselytizing.

I’m sorry you feel that way. It is not my intent to proselytize. I’m just trying to follow the flow of the discussion and the thread topic.

 

[ffg]

CU,

I’m still curious, if predestination is real, why did God come to earth and instruct?

Thanks,

 

[Isaiah45_9]

CU,

I’m still curious, if predestination is real, why did God come to earth and instruct?

Thanks,

I finally got tulip!

Total Demagoguery (Anything that doesn’t align with your personal conviction is a strawman or circular logic)

Unaccountability for Actions (doesn’t matter what you do, it has already been determined - you go to hell or you go to heaven)

Limited Church History (if it says Catholic… move along)

Imaginative Grace (pretend the bread (or crackers) is my body and the wine (or grape juice) is my blood)

Performance of the Chosen (on stage of course, you don’t do anything on your own)

 

[Christian_Unity]

CU,

I’m still curious, if predestination is real, why did God come to earth and instruct?

Thanks,

It’s a biblical doctrine and taught in the Catholic Faith:

catholicchampion.blogspot.com/2009/08/misunderstanding-of-catholic.html

 

[Christian_Unity]

I finally got tulip!

Total Demagoguery (Anything that doesn’t align with your personal conviction is a strawman or circular logic)

Unaccountability for Actions (doesn’t matter what you do, it has already been determined - you go to hell or you go to heaven)

Limited Church History (if it says Catholic… move along)

Imaginative Grace (pretend the bread (or crackers) is my body and the wine (or grape juice) is my blood)

Performance of the Chosen (on stage of course, you don’t do anything on your own)

David N. Steele & Curtis C. Thomas
The Five Points of Calvinism

Total Depravity
Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature; therefore, he will not–indeed he cannot–choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit’s assistance to bring a sinner to Christ–it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God’s gift of salvation–it is God’s gift to the sinner, not the sinner’s gift to God.
(Genesis 2:15-17, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Romans 3:10-18, Jeremiah 17:9, John 6:44, Ephesians 2:1-10)

Unconditional Election
God’s choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response or obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God’s choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God’s choice of the sinner, not the sinner’s choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.
(Romans 9:10-21, Ephesians 1:4-11, Ephesians 2:4-10, Romans 8:29-30, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:48)

Limited Atonement
Christ’s redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was a substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ’s redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which united them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, thereby guaranteeing their salvation.
(Matthew 1:21, Romans 5:12-21, Romans 3:21-26, Ephesians 2:8-10, Titus 3:5-6, Philippians 1:6, John 10:11-30, John 17:6-12, Romans 8:28-30, John 6:44, Acts 20:28)

Irresistible Grace
In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The external call (which is made to all without distinction) can be, and often is, rejected; whereas the internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected, it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man’s will, nor is He dependent upon man’s cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God’s grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.
(John 3:16, Matthew 22:14, Acts 17:29-31, Matthew 23:37-39, John 6:44, Romans 8:28-30, John 1:12-13, John 3:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-10)

Perseverance of the Saints
All who were chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end.
(John 3:16, John 6:35-40, John 6:44, Philippians 1:6, Philippians 2:12-13, Jude 24-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 8:35-39)

 

[Patavium]

CU,

What about?

For it is not from the moment of a man’s baptism that all his old infirmity is destroyed, but ** renovation begins with the remission of all his sins**, and so far as he who is now wise is spiritually wise. All things else, however, are accomplished in hope, looking forward to their being also realized in fact, even to the renewal of the body itself in that better state of immortality and incorruption with which we shall be clothed at the resurrection of the dead. For this too the Lord calls a regeneration,—though, of course, not such as occurs through baptism, but still a regeneration wherein that which is now begun in the spirit shall be brought to perfection also in the body. “In the regeneration,” says He, “when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” [Matthew 19:28] For however entire and full be the remission of sins in baptism, nevertheless, if there was wrought by it at once, an entire and full change of the man into his everlasting newness,—I do not mean change in his body, which is now most clearly tending evermore to the old corruption and to death, after which it is to be renewed into a total and true newness,—but, the body being excepted, if in the soul itself, which is the inner man, a perfect renewal was wrought in baptism, the apostle would not say: “Even though our outward man perishes, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.” [2 Corinthians 4:16] Now, undoubtedly, he who is still renewed day by day is not as yet wholly renewed; and in so far as he is not yet wholly renewed, he is still in his old state. Since, then, men, even after they are baptized, are still in some degree in their old condition, they are on that account also still children of the world; but inasmuch as they are also admitted into a new state, that is to say, by the full and perfect remission of their sins, and in so far as they are spiritually-minded, and behave correspondingly, they are the children of God. Internally we put off the old man and put on the new; for we then and there lay aside lying, and speak truth, and do those other things wherein the apostle makes to consist the putting off of the old man and the putting on of the new, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness [Ephesians 4:24]. Now it is men who are already baptized and faithful whom he exhorts to do this,—an exhortation which would be unsuitable to them, if the absolute and perfect change had been already made in their baptism. And yet made it was, since we were then actually saved; for “He saved us by the laver of regeneration.” [Titus 3:5] In another passage, however, he tells us how this took place. “Not they only,” says he, “but ourselves also, which have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope; for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.” [Romans 8:23-25]

Augustine, a Treatise on the Merits and Forgiveness of Sins, and on the Baptism of Infants, Book II Chapter 9

For, inasmuch as He was born of a mother who, although she conceived, was untouched by man and always remained untouched, a virgin in conception, a virgin in childbearing, a virgin in death.

Augustine: The First Catechetical Instruction (De Catechizandis Rudibus) 22.40

Therefore, my dearly beloved, as we have now proved by our former testimonies from Holy Scripture that there is in man a free determination of will for living rightly and acting rightly; so now let us see what are the divine testimonies concerning the grace of God, without which we are not able to do any good thing.

Augustine, A Treatise on Grace and Freewill Chapter 7

When God says, “Turn ye unto me, and I will turn unto you,”[Zechariah 1:3] one of these clauses–that which invites our return to God–evidently belongs to our will; while the other, which promises His return to us, belongs to His grace.

Augustine, A Treatise on Grace and Freewill Chapter 10(V)

We cannot simply cherry pick. We must READ what the person taught.

 

[ffg]

It’s a biblical doctrine and taught in the Catholic Faith:

catholicchampion.blogspot.com/2009/08/misunderstanding-of-catholic.html

I didn’t ask you what predestination was, where you got the idea, or if it was taught by the Catholic Church. How about a Vatican site instead of blogspot -

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19860528en.html

I asked you why God would give instruction to humans on how to live if predestination was real?

I should further define what I’m assuming you think when you use the term predestination. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you think it means say of 30 people, 25 are destined for salvation and 5 are not as predetermined by God.

If this is the case, it is not the definition the Church means when using the term, because Jesus died for all (Biblical and taught by the Church). You should be able to see that in the entirety of the document above.

In simplicity, and for reference, you should see a similarity in meaning as the natural course of love between God and human vs parent and child. It is God’s desire and natural course ( predestination) that man is made for God and therefore love him, similar with a child and parent. No parent before having kids assumes rejection from the child. Before creation God doesn’t assume it either.

Then there is this man made (using the tool of free will) pesky thing called sin that fouled things up, got really bad, and required divine help to mend a broken relationship.

I am still curious of your answer to my question.

Also, it is important to note per the Church “The Council of Trent’s Decree on Justification was issued after seven months’ work on 13 January 1547 and should be read as a whole.”

 

[CopticChristian]

catholicchampion.blogspot.com/2009/08/misunderstanding-of-catholic.html

There are many people who do not know what the Catholic Church teaches on predestination. Many people avoid the subject because they are afraid of what they might learn about it. I have also heard Reformed apologists tell their audiences that the Catholic position denies God’s sovereignty. They tell people that the Catholic position presumes that man chooses his own eternal destiny apart from the sovereignty of God. Catholics are often falsely called Semi-Pelagians, which is also not the case. I wanted to give a basic explanation of the Catholic position on predestination. - from Catholic link above

CU,

I have investigated this and the most complete source on this teaching if by William Most…now dead…his book is available on Amazon…

Calvin was wrong

one word

Mystery

 

[CopticChristian]

David N. Steele & Curtis C. Thomas
The Five Points of Calvinism

Total Depravity
Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature; therefore, he will not–indeed he cannot–choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God’s gift of salvation–it is God’s gift to the sinner, not the sinner’s gift to God.
(Genesis 2:15-17, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Romans 3:10-18, Jeremiah 17:9, John 6:44, Ephesians 2:1-10)

Unconditional Election
God’s choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response or obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God’s choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God’s choice of the sinner, not the sinner’s choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.
(Romans 9:10-21, Ephesians 1:4-11, Ephesians 2:4-10, Romans 8:29-30, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:48)

Limited Atonement
Christ’s redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was a substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ’s redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which united them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, thereby guaranteeing their salvation.
(Matthew 1:21, Romans 5:12-21, Romans 3:21-26, Ephesians 2:8-10, Titus 3:5-6, Philippians 1:6, John 10:11-30, John 17:6-12, Romans 8:28-30, John 6:44, Acts 20:28)

Irresistible Grace
In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The external call (which is made to all without distinction) can be, and often is, rejected; whereas the internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected, it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man’s will, nor is He dependent upon man’s cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God’s grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.
(John 3:16, Matthew 22:14, Acts 17:29-31, Matthew 23:37-39, John 6:44, Romans 8:28-30, John 1:12-13, John 3:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-10)

Perseverance of the Saints
All who were chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end.
(John 3:16, John 6:35-40, John 6:44, Philippians 1:6, Philippians 2:12-13, Jude 24-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 8:35-39)

CU,

This is so evil…

Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit’s assistance to bring a sinner to Christ–it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature.

who gets regenerated…you? and why…? then Christ did not come for all only for some…

If you and every other Calvinist I have encountered are the elect…then I don’t want to be…

it is like those that believe I will be left behind…

I will be in better company…

 

[mackbrislawn]

According to the teaching of Calvinism, God does not love everyone but only loves who He chooses to love. Christ did not die for all men but only for the elect. God doesn’t want everyone to be saved but rather He wants certain people to be saved while He wants others to be damned. They also believe that man does not have free will and therefore has no ability to willingly sin against God or serve Him, either God makes you serve Him or He makes you rebel against Him. They claim that if man had free will, then man would become more powerful than God. Unlike most Christian denominations teach “God hates the sin, but loes the sinner.” Calvinism teaches “God hates the sinner because of his sins.” They base their premise on reading verses of Scripture out of context like all Protestant churches do. They misread verses that say stuff like, “Jacob I loved, Esau I hated” “The fools shall not stand in Thine sight, Thou hatest all workers of iniquity.” “Man cannot accept the Gospel unless the Father that sent Me draw them.” “…those who were chosen from eternity, not one will be added nor subtracted.” Excuse me for not quoting these verses, some of them I probably don’t even have worded right, but I don’t have my Bible with me right now, these are just a few things I remember Calvinists use to back up their premise.

Are there any passages out there in the Bible that prove that Calvinism is false and that teach that
-God loves all sinners but hates all sin
-God wishes for ALL to be saved
-Man has free-will
-Jesus Christ died for all sins of all men
-God does not predestine some to salvation but the rest to damnation
And what do those “verses” that I’ve quoted above actually mean?

If anthropologists discovered a remote tribe somewhere who had a religion like this, it would be viewed as savage and demented. How could any people believe in a deity like that? Good question. But, there are those who think that way right here in River City.