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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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Are both you and your wife standing in front of the priest asking for help? If not, the priest is going to (probably correctly) see this as a contentious situation to stay away from.
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rcwitness
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And i see that as shrinking away… being afraid to uphold the faith… being afraid to be someone other than a “yes man”… someone who wants to stay in his comfortable place.rcwitness:
Are both you and your wife standing in front of the priest asking for help? If not, the priest is going to (probably correctly) see this as a contentious situation to stay away from.
Im asking for mercy!
But they sure do open the door for the annulment process!
Its the new way
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acanonlawyer
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Yes, Pope Francis’ stress on “accompaniment” does not apply only to those who are already divorced, that’s for sure (see Amoris laetitia, somewhere in the 230s).
Dan
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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You see that as shirking away…mostly because you want it. This is way more than just a comfortable place. This involves consent and willingness. Why should a priest meet with a grown, contentious adult who doesn’t want to be there with someone she doesn’t want to be there with?Xanthippe_Voorhees:
And i see that as shrinking away… being afraid to uphold the faith… being afraid to be someone other than a “yes man”… someone who wants to stay in his comfortable place.rcwitness:
Are both you and your wife standing in front of the priest asking for help? If not, the priest is going to (probably correctly) see this as a contentious situation to stay away from.
Im asking for mercy!
But they sure do open the door for the annulme t process!
Its the new way
You are not asking for mercy, you want a priest to what you want him to do.
They aren’t opening the door to the annulment process, so much as they are engaging the person in a conversation they are willing to have, without imput from the parties they wish not be there.
Only thing that could be considred the “new way” is to give women a chance to choose weither or not to engage with a priest if she wishes not to.
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rcwitness
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You are missing the point altogether.
Jesus left the 99 to seek the lost!
As long as pastors are preferring to avoid reaching out, and searching hearts, and trying to help his parishioners understand the faith, and its implications, we are going to keep going down this road of more invalid marriages and valid marriages which are being divorced from.
Jesus left the 99 to seek the lost!
As long as pastors are preferring to avoid reaching out, and searching hearts, and trying to help his parishioners understand the faith, and its implications, we are going to keep going down this road of more invalid marriages and valid marriages which are being divorced from.
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Maximilian75
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In which case, again, it goes back to catechesis- The couple needs to understand that this is for keeps
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rcwitness
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Unless one of the plethora of impediments allows.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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No, no I’m not.
There is a huge difference between reaching out to the lost and trying to facilitate a meeting between two people, one of whom staunchly doesn’t want to be there.
Scenario 1: My wife civilly divorced me and says the church believes XYZ, I want to bring her to meet with you and make sure she knows what the church believes.
Scenario 2: My wife civilly divorced me. I think she has some wrong ideas about the church. I’ve suggested she talk to a priest and she said sure. Could she call you? What’s the best number?
The first is a no-go. The second would be what was needed to help “seek the 1 who is lost”
This isn’t about “avoiding reaching out”. It’s about not putting oneself in a bad situaiton.
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Maximilian75
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That’s just illogical
An impediment is the opposite of something that allows.
An impediment is the opposite of something that allows.
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rcwitness
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This is where you are lost. Jesus went into the bad situation. And when Peter said, you musnt not go, Jesus said, “You are thi king as men think, not as God thinks. Get behind me Satan.”
Its only a bad situation that a parishioner would not want to meet with their pastor.
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Maximilian75
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‘Clergy want us to be ignorant so there is always the impediment to rely on’
This is absurd. Actually absurd.
Flagged, for violating Forum Rules , Conduct Rules, No. 4-
‘Do not incite animosity towards anyone, especially the clergy.’
This is absurd. Actually absurd.
Flagged, for violating Forum Rules , Conduct Rules, No. 4-
‘Do not incite animosity towards anyone, especially the clergy.’
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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If a parishioner is refusing to meet with their pastor it’s not on the pastor to force the meeting. In what world is that ever ok?Xanthippe_Voorhees:
This is where you are lost. Jesus went into the bad situation. And when Peter said, you musnt not go, Jesus said, “You are thi king as men think, not as God thinks. Get behind me Satan.”
Its only a bad situation that a parishioner would not want to meet with their pastor.
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rcwitness
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For God’s sake, who said ANYTHING about “force”?!?!
This is gross exaggeration
This is gross exaggeration
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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What? No.
Before the internet there were books. Priests are not bearers of knowledge as they were in the 1500’s. They can be excellent to speak with and talk to but knowlege can be found elseware.
Impediments must occur before the marriage. Even if a marriage in trouble gets council, that’s not going to change impediments that already happened.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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How would you describe a situation in which someone is made to do something they don’t want to do? I can’t think of another word for it.
If such a meeting occurs–where the parishioner dosn’t want to do it but it happens anyway–what words would you use to describe that?
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rcwitness
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Im not inciting animosity at all. I love my pastor and want to have a good relationship with him. I do have a good relationship with several priests!
Ive asked my wife and her parents to consult clergy to affirm their very wrong beliefs!!
And ive watched clergy tell me its ok to use contraception, and mutual masturbation! Im speaking from real life experience here!
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Maximilian75
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‘Clergy want us to be ignorant.’
Oh, yeah, that’ll really make everyone loooveee priests
Oh, yeah, that’ll really make everyone loooveee priests
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rcwitness
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I asked them to invite. Plain and simple. Reach out and invite. She could say no thanks.
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rcwitness
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I love them. Even though i believe many clergy, by their actions, show they dont want Catholics to be well informed of the faith.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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And their the responsibility ends. If they do not respond to that offer, if they do not reach out when given the person to call it’s not on the priest to call someone who clearly doesn’t want to hear from them.
Just no. A priest should not be calling someone who is potentially hostile. In most states, if the priest did so knowing they did not want it would legally constitute harassment.
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