Is Canon 1099 an Easy Annulment?

[rcwitness]

That is an old saw perpetuated by folks who don’t think annulments are right.
There were fewer annulments int he past because of the stigma of divorce among Catholics an priests who kept telling people to “offer it up” when they could have been released from an abusive marriage. I know that is what they told my sister.
In the past, there were nearly as many canonists around as well. The average layperson did not know they had recourse.

But the answer isnt primarily that we need to “release” victims of invalid marriages, but that we educate young parishioners better to avoid these invalid marriages!

Secular society is doing a fine job to educate young people how to use contraception, while we are not educating (which means by example too, for those who expect their kids to respect them) our young people about marriage and contraception.

 

[Tulitas]

Well, yeah.
But feeling anger toward those to have been granted annulments is terrible.
And before you protest, we see it on CAF all the time.

 

[rcwitness]

Well, yeah.
But feeling anger toward those to have been granted annulments is terrible.
And before you protest, we see it on CAF all the time.

Sure. Im not angry at anyone for seeking an annulment in honesty, whether they receive or do not.

But I even ordered a short book, forget the name right now, about understanding annulments.

The auther herself explains that she did not wait to receive the annulment decree, but married first while applying! Lol! If i dont laugh, i’ll say something out of justified anger!

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

You are desparate to paint the picture in a way that “exonerates” these actions. And im not even judging them. Im merely recognizing a lack of conviction, which demonstrates a lack of concern that parishioners know and understand the relative Church Teachings.

You are claiming that the priests are maliciously decieving parishioners for their own benefit. You have yet to show that this is occuring.

The non Catholic does receive Communion. And the Catholic spouse does also, yet has not convalidated the marriage. Ive said my peace, and am certainly friendly with them. I have my own problems. It has nothing to do with judging others. But recognizing where we are all failing. And it is failing for sure, with ugly damage.

The Non-Catholic receiving communion is an issue between that person and the priest. If the priest is knowingly not doing his duties, that’s something the Bishop needs to address.

Yep. And its actually not that uncommon. Why do you think 80% of Cats use contraception? I hear abortion homilies which dont even touch on contraception. Ive NEVER heard a single criticism of contraception or a referral to Church Teaching by a pastor in my entire 15 yrs of being Catholic!!!

Do you think that is super rare? Do you think clergy are actively educating Catholics about Church Teaching on marriage and contraception? Do you think they want us to be aware, but just keep forgetting to bring it up?

For a priest to maliciously encourage sin for his own convenience. Yes, I absolutely do think you are off-base.

In the cases you describe it sounds as if the priest wasn’t giving a “wink wink, nudge nudge” but genuinely believes what he’s saying. Either way, that’s a matter for the Bishop.

Pre-Cana shouldn’t be one conversation. It should be many, over many years before engagement. 6 Months before the wedding there are so many other things to discuss it does genuinely get lost. Even a weekly meeting for 6 months–which isn’t happening–is hardly enough to address all the things in which parents and schools and the CCD itself lacked. Things get missed.

Even you quoted Matthew’s Gospel about admonishing the sinner. You hear a priest preaching mortal sin, you go to the Bishop.

And while abortion can be discussed tactfully, there is no place to tactuflly discuss marital sex in a mixed crowd, nevermind one with children.

But the answer isnt primarily that we need to “release” victims of invalid marriages, but that we educate young parishioners better to avoid these invalid marriages!

It absolutely IS to release victims of invalid marriages that have occurred. I am stating that the church needs to educate young people better and avoid invalid marriages. However, at least in my dioceses, I find no effort being attempted to do that…meaning that the church is likely still officiating at invalid marriages. All of whom would be eligible for an annulment if it came to that.

 

[rcwitness]

You are claiming that the priests are maliciously decieving parishioners for their own benefit. You have yet to show that this is occuring.

Because im not trying to show they are malicious or deceiving! Not malicious, and not deceiving! But neglecting to uphold the Teachings of the Church. These are acts of ommission.

The Non-Catholic receiving communion is an issue between that person and the priest. If the priest is knowingly not doing his duties, that’s something the Bishop needs to address.

He apologized (kinda) after I wroye the diocese.

For a priest to maliciously encourage sin for his own convenience. Yes, I absolutely do think you are off-base.

Im only going to say this one more time; please stop accussing me of saying anyone has been malicious! That is gross mellow dramatics to dismiss my valid points. A fault does not need to be malicious to be a fault. It can simply be a lack of conviction and ommission.

And while abortion can be discussed tactfully, there is no place to tactuflly discuss marital sex in a mixed crowd, nevermind one with children.

I disagree. Language can appropriately address contraception so that those of a relative age can understand. It need not be graphic!

It absolutely IS to release victims of invalid marriages that have occurred. I am stating that the church needs to educate young people better and avoid invalid marriages. However, at least in my dioceses, I find no effort being attempted to do that…meaning that the church is likely still officiating at invalid marriages. All of whom would be eligible for an annulment if it came to that.

The primary concern should be to avoid bad situations. The secondary is to help those in bad situations.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Because im not trying to show they are malicious or deceiving! Not malicious, and not deceiving! But neglecting to uphold the Teachings of the Church. These are acts of ommission.

Im only going to say this one more time; please stop accussing me of saying anyone has been malicious! That is gross mellow dramatics to dismiss my valid points. A fault does not need to be malicious to be a fault. It can simply be a lack of conviction and ommission.

Yeah, you kinda are making this about a priest who should know better but does not for his own conveniences. That is malice. An omission is saying nothing. It is not an act of omission to tell a couple they can use condoms.

I disagree. Language can appropriately address contraception so that those of a relative age can understand. It need not be graphic!

It’s about more than language. The homily is to help the people in their faith life. Contraception is only concerning to those who are 14-50 and are sexually active. CARA study lists my parish as 85% over 65. A “contraception” homily would do them no good. Some might say “but they have children” but again, the homily is to enrich the parishioners, not people who aren’t even there.

The primary concern should be to avoid bad situations. The secondary is to help those in bad situations.

Nope, not going to agree to that. The church has an absolute duty to both, maybe moreso to those who were put in the bad situation by their effort.

 

[LaetenturCaeli12]

That is an attitude of “you dont need to know, just trust that we know better.”

It could be.

It could also be an attitude of, “to be frank, this isn’t official Church teaching, but us Priests are taught to do it this way anyhow.”

 

[LaetenturCaeli12]

Do you think that is super rare? Do you think clergy are actively educating Catholics about Church Teaching on marriage and contraception? Do you think they want us to be aware, but just keep forgetting to bring it up?

Do you believe that the main reason that Catholics disobey Church teaching on this matter is because of ignorance? I’m not so sure. I think a lot of Catholics in the pews may not actually believe Church teaching to begin with, at least not insofar as certain things are concerned. Or, at the very least, they think that God doesn’t really care about such things as contraception. But in this information age, the laity are without excuse. We are not reliant solely upon a local Priest to understand what the Church teaches.

Modernism affects both the Priest and the layperson, after all. As does sin, of course.

 

[rcwitness]

Yeah, you kinda are making this about a priest who should know better but does not for his own conveniences. That is malice. An omission is saying nothing. It is not an act of omission to tell a couple they can use condoms.

Yes, you are right the ommission is prior to the suggestion to use.

It’s about more than language. The homily is to help the people in their faith life. Contraception is only concerning to those who are 14-50 and are sexually active. CARA study lists my parish as 85% over 65. A “contraception” homily would do them no good. Some might say “but they have children” but again, the homily is to enrich the parishioners, not people who aren’t even there.

Many parishes are majority seniors. I wonder why? Maybe becuase most Catholics dont attend mass?

Nope, not going to agree to that. The church has an absolute duty to both, maybe moreso to those who were put in the bad situation by their effort.

The duty should be first to help avoid bad situation, and then deal with when people are in bad situations.

 

[rcwitness]

It could be… It could also be an attitude of, “to be frank, this isn’t official Church teaching, but us Priests are taught to do it this way anyhow.”

Wow! The latter would be even worse than the former!

 

[rcwitness]

rcwitness:

Do you think that is super rare? Do you think clergy are actively educating Catholics about Church Teaching on marriage and contraception? Do you think they want us to be aware, but just keep forgetting to bring it up?

Do you believe that the main reason that Catholics disobey Church teaching on this matter is because of ignorance? I’m not so sure. I think a lot of Catholics in the pews may not actually believe Church teaching to begin with, at least not insofar as certain things are concerned. Or, at the very least, they think that God doesn’t really care about such things as contraception. But in this information age, the laity are without excuse. We are not reliant solely upon a local Priest to understand what the Church teaches.

Modernism affects both the Priest and the layperson, after all. As does sin, of course.

Either way, clergy has a duty to admonish both. If there is knowledge and a flat out rejection, then Sacramets are not to be administered.

 

[Xantippe]

I disagree. Language can appropriately address contraception so that those of a relative age can understand. It need not be graphic!

I do not want to have to explain contraception to my little children, thanks!

It’s not OK for the pastor to bring up subjects that are not appropriate for everybody in the pews.

 

[rcwitness]

Then tell them it was for the adults. You dont need to explain it. I have children too! But apparently adults need to hear it.

My wife and her family are Catholic, and practice sterilization while receiving Communion. After my second child, my mother in law tried to convince my wife to get sterilized!!

MIL tried explaining it is ok.

 

[Xantippe]

Then tell them it was for the adults. You dont need to explain it. I have children too! But apparently adults need to hear it.

How exactly do you suggest that priests preach against sterilization in a small-child friendly manner?

 

[rcwitness]

Something like “The Church Teaches that sterilization and contraception for the purpose of avoiding pregnancy is intrinsically evil, and opposed to the love of God.”

 

[7_Sorrows]

Tulitas:

Well, yeah.
But feeling anger toward those to have been granted annulments is terrible.
And before you protest, we see it on CAF all the time.

Sure. Im not angry at anyone for seeking an annulment in honesty, whether they receive or do not.

But I even ordered a short book, forget the name right now, about understanding annulments.

The auther herself explains that she did not wait to receive the annulment decree, but married first while applying! Lol! If i dont laugh, i’ll say something out of justified anger!

i had friends who had a civil marriage while awaiting an annullment - with the priest’s blessing. they had been cohabitating before that. two years later the annullment was granted and they married in the Church.

 

[Xantippe]

Something like “The Church Teaches that sterilization and contraception for the purpose of avoiding pregnancy is intrinsically evil, and opposed to the love of God.”

You know, a lot of parents are very resentful about sex ed type stuff being usurped by school or church programs. Not to mention, a lot of people even homeschool CCD…

I’m not as much that way as some people, but it’s just not possible to present that material in a convincing, age-appropriate way to a large group containing people from 1 month old to 90.

 

[LaetenturCaeli12]

If there is knowledge and a flat out rejection, then Sacramets are not to be administered.

A Priest who privately knows that so-and-so is using contraception must withhold Holy Communion from them? I don’t believe that that’s correct at all.

 

[rcwitness]

A Priest who privately knows that so-and-so is using contraception must withhold Holy Communion from them? I don’t believe that that’s correct at all.

Not without Bishop’s affirmation.

But Absolution is not to be given, and they are to be admonished that reception of His Eucharist should not be done while using contraception.

 

[LaetenturCaeli12]

Something like “The Church Teaches that sterilization and contraception for the purpose of avoiding pregnancy is intrinsically evil, and opposed to the love of God.”

I think it extremely unlikely that a majority of adult Catholics in the United States are unaware of the Church’s position on contraception. So I don’t believe the problem is ignorance, but rather a lack of obedience to what many see as antiquated or arbitrary rules.

Whether Priests across the world could do a better job of speaking on this subject I cannot say. Obviously, we don’t have an impeccable collection of Priests in this world. I’m sure there are many who not only are too timid about teaching sound doctrine, but that there are many others who are simply themselves not obedient to the Church’s doctrine.

But by the same token, we shouldn’t excuse the laity either. A Catholic making even a half-hearted attempted to find out what the Church says on any given topic is not going to be held back by a local Priest who may be less than adequate.