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TrueLight
Guest
Are you saying this is to be observed only when an EC attends an RC church?
Or do you mean it is only observed when discussing things with RC’s?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Both. Seriously, I only heard about my bishop talk about Canon Law when they were figuring out if we need permission or not to have my child baptized, being canonically Latin. Other than that, every teaching, every sermon is rooted in the teachings of the Church through the teachings of the Eastern Fathers. I never heard them say we do thing because Canon Law says so, but rather what is the tradition of the (Ukrainian) Church. I have never heard the terms “mortal” or “venial” preached in our parish except when the time we had a talk with a guest RC priest.
We’re Latinized but we’re correcting that, little by little.
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Vico
Guest
Yes. And so does my pastor. (Byzantine Metropolitan Church sui iuris of Pittsburgh, USA)
CCEO Canon 1
The canons of this Code affect all and solely the Eastern Catholic Churches, unless, with regard to relations with the Latin Church, it is expressly stated otherwise.
CCEO Canon 718
In the sacrament of penance, the Christian faithful who committed sins after baptism, internally led by the Holy Spirit, turn back to God, moved by the pain of sin, intent on entering a new life through the ministry of the priest, having themselves made a confession and accepted an appropriate penance, obtain forgiveness from God and at the same time are reconciled with the Church which they injured by sinning; by this sacrament they are brought to a greater fostering of the Christian life and are thus disposed for receiving the Divine Eucharist.
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Vico
Guest
The CCEO was promulgated in 1990. Here Blessed John Paul II relates how the canons were “composed by the Easterners themselves”.
Excerpt from: Apostolic Constitution Sacri Canones
The constitution and form of the established Pontifical Commission for the Revision of the «Code of Eastern Canon Law», coming in mid-1972, safeguarded its Eastern character since it consisted of a multiplicity of Churches, with the Eastern patriarchs being in the very first place. The work of the commission kept in sight the exceptional collegial aspect. For the formulation of the canons, gradually worked out by groups of experts chosen from all the Churches, was sent to all the bishops of the Eastern Catholic Churches before anyone else, so that their opinions could be given collegially insofar as possible. Finally, these formulae, repeatedly revised anew in special study groups according to the wishes of the bishops, after a diligent examination by the members of the commission who repeatedly reconsidered the matter if it was warranted, were accepted by unanimous vote in a plenary assembly of the members gathered in November of 1988.
We must admit that this Code is “composed by the Easterners themselves” according to the directions given by our predecessor, Paul VI at the solemn inauguration of the work of the commission (AAS 66 [1974] 246). Today, as generously as possible, I thank those who were participants in this work.
In the very first place, with a spirit of gratitude I note the name of the deceased Cardinal Joseph Parecattil of the Malabar Church who, for nearly the whole time except the last three years, meritoriously served as president of the commission for the new Code. Along with him I recall in a singular manner the deceased Archbishop Clement Ignatius Mansourati of the Syrian Church who certainly and to the highest degree fulfilled the office of vice- president of the commission in the first and especially arduous years.
It pleases me also to remember the living, especially my venerable brothers Miroslav Stephen Marusyn, now an Archbishop, appointed secretary for the Congregation for the Eastern Churches, who for a long time admirably carried out the office of vice-president of the commission, and also Bishop Aemilio Eid, vice-president today, who brought the work to a most happy outcome. After those, I remember the esteemed Ivan Zuzek, a priest member of the Society of Jesus, who, as secretary of the commission from the beginning, showed determined effort. I remember others who, whether as members, patriarchs, cardinals, archbishops and bishops; whether as consultors and collaborators in study groups and other tasks, carried out their parts at a high price. Next I remember the observers who, on account of the desired unity of all Churches, were invited from the Orthodox Churches, and were of great help by their very useful presence and collaboration.
With great hope I trust that this Code will “happily be put into the action of daily life and that it offer a genuine testimony of reverence and love for ecclesiastical law” as was the hope of Paul VI of blessed memory (AAS 66 [1974] 247), and will establish an order of tranquility in the Eastern Churches, so clear in antiquity, which, when I promulgated the Code of Canon Law of the Latin Church, I desired with an ardent spirit for the whole ecclesial society. It is a question of order which, attributing the principle parts to love, to grace, to charism, renders, at the very same time, an ordered progression of them easier whether in the life of the ecclesial society or in the life of the individuals which belong to it (AAS 75 [1983] Part II, xi).
ia700604.us.archive.org/26/items/ApostolicConstitutionSacriCanonesJohnPaulIi1990/Sacri_Canones_Apostolic_Constitution_John_Paul_II_1990_djvu.txt
Excerpt from: Apostolic Constitution Sacri Canones
The constitution and form of the established Pontifical Commission for the Revision of the «Code of Eastern Canon Law», coming in mid-1972, safeguarded its Eastern character since it consisted of a multiplicity of Churches, with the Eastern patriarchs being in the very first place. The work of the commission kept in sight the exceptional collegial aspect. For the formulation of the canons, gradually worked out by groups of experts chosen from all the Churches, was sent to all the bishops of the Eastern Catholic Churches before anyone else, so that their opinions could be given collegially insofar as possible. Finally, these formulae, repeatedly revised anew in special study groups according to the wishes of the bishops, after a diligent examination by the members of the commission who repeatedly reconsidered the matter if it was warranted, were accepted by unanimous vote in a plenary assembly of the members gathered in November of 1988.
We must admit that this Code is “composed by the Easterners themselves” according to the directions given by our predecessor, Paul VI at the solemn inauguration of the work of the commission (AAS 66 [1974] 246). Today, as generously as possible, I thank those who were participants in this work.
In the very first place, with a spirit of gratitude I note the name of the deceased Cardinal Joseph Parecattil of the Malabar Church who, for nearly the whole time except the last three years, meritoriously served as president of the commission for the new Code. Along with him I recall in a singular manner the deceased Archbishop Clement Ignatius Mansourati of the Syrian Church who certainly and to the highest degree fulfilled the office of vice- president of the commission in the first and especially arduous years.
It pleases me also to remember the living, especially my venerable brothers Miroslav Stephen Marusyn, now an Archbishop, appointed secretary for the Congregation for the Eastern Churches, who for a long time admirably carried out the office of vice-president of the commission, and also Bishop Aemilio Eid, vice-president today, who brought the work to a most happy outcome. After those, I remember the esteemed Ivan Zuzek, a priest member of the Society of Jesus, who, as secretary of the commission from the beginning, showed determined effort. I remember others who, whether as members, patriarchs, cardinals, archbishops and bishops; whether as consultors and collaborators in study groups and other tasks, carried out their parts at a high price. Next I remember the observers who, on account of the desired unity of all Churches, were invited from the Orthodox Churches, and were of great help by their very useful presence and collaboration.
With great hope I trust that this Code will “happily be put into the action of daily life and that it offer a genuine testimony of reverence and love for ecclesiastical law” as was the hope of Paul VI of blessed memory (AAS 66 [1974] 247), and will establish an order of tranquility in the Eastern Churches, so clear in antiquity, which, when I promulgated the Code of Canon Law of the Latin Church, I desired with an ardent spirit for the whole ecclesial society. It is a question of order which, attributing the principle parts to love, to grace, to charism, renders, at the very same time, an ordered progression of them easier whether in the life of the ecclesial society or in the life of the individuals which belong to it (AAS 75 [1983] Part II, xi).
ia700604.us.archive.org/26/items/ApostolicConstitutionSacriCanonesJohnPaulIi1990/Sacri_Canones_Apostolic_Constitution_John_Paul_II_1990_djvu.txt
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TrueLight
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Bookcat
Guest
–The Canons are only when we deal with the Latins.—
Huh?
That is simply not the case.
I will note to readers that this is simply not the case --the Canons of the Eastern Code of Canon Law are simply NOT for dealing with the Roman Christians --they are for the Eastern Catholic Churches.
As Romans we have our own code.
That Code is for the Eastern Catholic Churches.
Heck – just look at it being quoted to HIS faithful by the Eastern Catholic Patriarch of Antioch.
From the Pastoral Letter of “MAR NASRALLAH PETER SFEIR BY THE GRACE OF GOD
PATRIARCH OF ANTIOCH AND ALL THE EAST” 2005
“This is why the Church commands her children to participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, to go to confession and receive sacramental absolution, and to partake of the Body and Blood of the Lord. As for those who partake of the flesh of the Lord unworthily, they bring judgment on themselves, as the Apostle Paul put it: “Therefore whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 11:27).”
“It is written in the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches (CCEO) “Whoever is aware of having committed a grave sin, must receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation, i.e. repentance, before participating in Holy Communion, and those who are publicly unworthy are forbidden to receive the Divine Eucharist”. And the Second Vatican Council says: “They are fully incorporated into the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept her whole structure and all the means of salvation established within her, and in her visible framework are united to Christ, who governs her through the Supreme Pontiff and the Bishops, by the bonds of profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government and communion”.”
maronite-heritage.com/The%20Eucharist.php
Huh?
That is simply not the case.
I will note to readers that this is simply not the case --the Canons of the Eastern Code of Canon Law are simply NOT for dealing with the Roman Christians --they are for the Eastern Catholic Churches.
As Romans we have our own code.
That Code is for the Eastern Catholic Churches.
Heck – just look at it being quoted to HIS faithful by the Eastern Catholic Patriarch of Antioch.
From the Pastoral Letter of “MAR NASRALLAH PETER SFEIR BY THE GRACE OF GOD
PATRIARCH OF ANTIOCH AND ALL THE EAST” 2005
“This is why the Church commands her children to participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, to go to confession and receive sacramental absolution, and to partake of the Body and Blood of the Lord. As for those who partake of the flesh of the Lord unworthily, they bring judgment on themselves, as the Apostle Paul put it: “Therefore whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 11:27).”
“It is written in the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches (CCEO) “Whoever is aware of having committed a grave sin, must receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation, i.e. repentance, before participating in Holy Communion, and those who are publicly unworthy are forbidden to receive the Divine Eucharist”. And the Second Vatican Council says: “They are fully incorporated into the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept her whole structure and all the means of salvation established within her, and in her visible framework are united to Christ, who governs her through the Supreme Pontiff and the Bishops, by the bonds of profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government and communion”.”
maronite-heritage.com/The%20Eucharist.php
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Bookcat
Guest
– We must admit that this Code is “composed by the Easterners themselves” --Bl. Pope John Paul II
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TrueLight
Guest
We hear at CAF often quote Canon law when engaged in debates because when on the internet, it is easy to look up stuff. That is just the nature of the internet and CAF.
Of course in real life, no one goes about quoting canons. We are all trying to live lives that are pleasing to God in the best way we know how.
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lssanjose
Guest
Brother, this goes back to my concern over the place of the CCC, and the UGCC catechism among the laity. They their respective places, for us. But the decisions made, are and should be made, at the executive level
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Bookcat
Guest
As to the Eastern Code --which is concerning the Eastern Catholic Churches --yes they refer to grave sins (called either serious sins, mortal sins or grave sins in the Church documents)
The Catholic Church in her documents uses the terms serious sin- grave sin- and mortal sin as synonyms.
catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=34987
The canons for this particular canon are basically the same in both codes of Canon Law. They discuss the same reality.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church notes:
1457 … Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57 … *
Footnote:57 Cf. Council of Trent (1551): DS 1647; 1661; CIC, can. 916; CCEO, can. 711.
(*readers can see the two codes for more details – if there is a serious/grave reason for an “exception” one is also make an act of perfect contrition and to intend to confess as soon as possible)
The Catechism References there the Eastern Code of Canon Law 711 which goes into that one is not to receive the Divine Eucharist if one is conscious of serious sin (mortal sin) . It also references the Council of Trent.
scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
The question in praxis though --to be put to the person in question --is did they commit a mortal sin (grave sin-serious sin)? One is to examine ones conscience…and if need be one can consult ones confessor for assistance. The various (light or called venial) sins of course that we struggle with daily can as has been noted --be forgiven in many ways – including during the Liturgy and Holy Communion.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Definitely. And the funny thing is Roman Catholic laity think they can tell Eastern Catholics what they believe despite what the Roman Pope and the EC bishops have said. No amount of posting stuff will change that.
The Pope is talking to Catholics so poeple like Bookcat should listen. The Orthodox can object all they want but Catholics shouldn’t because it is the Pope saying that is what Catholics believe.
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Bookcat
Guest
Oh…most certainly as to what the Popes say and intend.
But he is not espousing your opinions on the question of this thread.
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Bookcat
Guest
Hummm…
What the Pope has indicated and the Eastern Codes and Eastern Catholic Clergy and an Eastern Catholic Bishop (Patriarch in fact!) have noted on this issue (the question of the the thread)…IS what has been posted.
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Marybeloved
Guest
Me either! Till he told me recently on another thread- or was it this one? Always assumed he was Latin, lol!
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ConstantineTG
Guest
No, what has been posted on this thread are Roman Catholic beliefs and canons made by Roman clergy who know nothing about the authentic Eastern life. But thankfully the Popes themselves of late have spoken FOR the rediscovery and reclaim of Eastern Churches of their tradition. If you tell an Eastern Christian about “tradition”, that for us means EVERYTHING in our spirituality. It is not just about wearing the proper vestments or doing certain things, our spirituality is our way of life, therefore tradition in our language encompasses our entire faith.
If you don’t get that, it’s fine. You’re not EC, it is not your spirituality. But don’t tell us what our spirituality is.
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Bookcat
Guest
I might post further this thread on the topic. But I have done enough round and round with you in this thread. So I will not respond here…
I do though wish you well and much grace
with a prayer to the *Great Mother of God *for you and yours
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lssanjose
Guest
It goes back to question, what is the place of canon code among laity, east AND west? My Orthodox friend explained very briefly, and straight to the point: Canon law is for the ideal; it’s more for bishops, and clergy as a guidebook. Canon law describes the ascetic ideal. It’s not a rulebook by which the laity uses to live their spirituality.
I think this is the original contention Brother Constantine had with the repeated postings of canon law. My friend did say the catechism has its place among the laity, but not Canon Law.
Again, it goes back to the need of a spiritual father, or confessor to make the ultimate call if one is really receiving worthily, or not. We, as laity, have a responsibility to live our lives out as little Christs (Christian - Christianos); to be an example to others; build the mystical body of Christ; not be administrators or politicians pertaining to matters of canon law.
I think this is the original contention Brother Constantine had with the repeated postings of canon law. My friend did say the catechism has its place among the laity, but not Canon Law.
Again, it goes back to the need of a spiritual father, or confessor to make the ultimate call if one is really receiving worthily, or not. We, as laity, have a responsibility to live our lives out as little Christs (Christian - Christianos); to be an example to others; build the mystical body of Christ; not be administrators or politicians pertaining to matters of canon law.
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Peter_J
Guest
I think that’s a good way of putting it. It doesn’t mean that everyone who doesn’t meet the ideal is going to be excommunicated.
Relating this to the subject matter(s) of this particular forum, we have to deal with the situation that the Union of Brest dealt to us, not some ideal situation that we might wish to find ourselves in. (I’m one who believes that uniatism was an extremely bad idea, but that doesn’t mean that I want to pretend it didn’t happen.)
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Bookcat
Guest
The question is here about the Eastern Catholic Churches so the various possible Eastern Orthodox approaches are not so much of issue here.
There where repeated postings of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Encyclicals of the Pope, as well as things from Eastern Catholic sources too --in addition to the Eastern Code of Canons. (these sources were brought in to give more weight to the fact that one is to go to confession first if one has committed a mortal sin – when the contrary was more than once suggested)
Bl. Pope John Paul said while promulgating the Eastern Code in 1990 —
“With great hope I trust that this Code will “happily be put into the action of daily life and that it offer a genuine testimony of reverence and love for ecclesiastical law” as was the hope of Paul VI of blessed memory…”
But do the laity need to read or study Canon Law? No. Such can be good --but yes such is not per se necessary.
Hence they have their Pastors etc simply explaining --such as in the Bulletin or as they learn the Faith --that if one has committed a mortal sin --one does not receive Holy Communion but first one goes and confesses it and is restored to true life in in and by Jesus Christ the Lord and then one receives him in Holy Communion.
What is necessary is as you mentioned -is to live as Christians.
Amen!
Yes let us live the Faith! And especially in the upcoming Year of Faith let us seek to more and more! vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20111011_porta-fidei_en.html --I can not wait! I look forward to the rich teachings of Pope Benedict XVI
As the early Christian Martyrs would say before their judges: I am a Christian!
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