Is casting lots forbidden or not?

[WoundedIcon]

Obviously we see a lot of examples of casting lots in the Bible, but I’ve noticed that I’m getting mixed messages from the Church on it now. St. Thomas Aquinas said that if one does it prayerfully in a time of need that it’s fine, but the Catechism says:

2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

So… is it only forbidden when one tries to tell the future and not just get guidance? And, also, weren’t some of the Eastern saints clairvoyant?

 

[SonCatcher]

Those saints who received special knowledge neither sought such knowledge nor used it for guidance. They would have continued the same path regardless.

When I am at a crossroads, I make a decision and ask God to either help it or prevent it according to His will and for the grace to recognize the result.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Well, this isn’t the official teaching of the Church but simply my own thoughts, but:

If you start to put too much faith in signs or casting lots you can abdicate your own responsibility for forming a concsicence and acting accordingly. I want to understand what is right and wrong and act accordingly, not do something and then say well, it was a tough decision but I did it because I rolled a 7. Huh? I can’t see myself justifying that to St. Peter at the pearly gates.

I believe God gave me a brain, some intelligence, and an inquisitive nature so I could seek Him, understand Him as best I can given my human limitations, than act in a way in accordance with His teachings to show I am choosing Him.

Harder to do that if I’m just going to roll some dice or something vice reasoning out a course of action.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

So… is it only forbidden when one tries to tell the future and not just get guidance? And, also, weren’t some of the Eastern saints clairvoyant?

Casting lots can be like throwing dice to make an arbitrary decision or tossing a coin to determine who goes first.
Nothing mystical about it, pure chance… or does God work through it?

But then there are also oracles, Tarot Cards, Runes, astorology, all sorts of “New Age” stuff. I wouldn’t want to go there.

You might find this of interst, Sortes Sacrae
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortes_Sanctorum

It is superstition that even some holy people tried.

What interests me is the I Ching. Quite a fascinating ancient system but it is divination in that the particular kua or hexagram that is derived through a complex ritual of yarrow stalk manipulation is supposed to be connected to the character of the present moment. Jung called it synchronicity. So it involves superstition with maybe a little wisdom in there if a person can understand all the symbolism.

For things that hardly matter, like which team will kick off, no problem with lots or coins. For other decisions stay far away from oracles & divination. Much better to do it the hard way through prayer and discernment. For guidance, if the heart is open in prayer, God will speak without the need for lots.

 

[animalis]

So… is it only forbidden when one tries to tell the future and not just get guidance? And, also, weren’t some of the Eastern saints clairvoyant?

Pope Benedict XVI wrote this in Verbum domini, “In the twelfth synodal assembly, Bishops from throughout the world gathered around the word of God and symbolically placed the text of the Bible at the centre of the assembly, in order to stress anew something we risk taking for granted in everyday life: the fact that God speaks and responds to our questions.” (VD, 4) And again, “The laity need to be trained to discern God’s will through a familiarity with his word, read and studied in the Church under the guidance of her legitimate pastors. They can receive this training at the school of the great ecclesial spiritualities, all of which are grounded in sacred Scripture.” (VD, 84)

The saints would not be saints unless they are worthy examples of imitation.

This responce of God is the link of the activated faith of the individual: "Saint Bonaventure states that without faith there is no key to throw open the sacred text: “This is the knowledge of Jesus Christ, from whom, as from a fountain, flow forth the certainty and the understanding of all sacred Scripture. Therefore it is impossible for anyone to attain to knowledge of that truth unless he first have infused faith in Christ, which is the lamp, the gate and the foundation of all Scripture”. (VD, 29)

 

[Kithrus]

Some people in history namely prophets and saints have the gift of seeing the future and some has the power to understand dreams.

In none of these cases was it done lightly like ‘if you get the job great things would happen.’

If God wants one of us to the the future he will tell us but divination to see if your going to have a bad day is not one such use.