Is Catholicism a private, scripted club?

[calchiquita]

And now my thoughts on evangelization.

The best way for a Catholic to evangelize is to know his faith live his life according to his faith. Don’t be shy of having distinctively Catholic things in plain sight. Have a small library of explanatory materials faithful to the magisterium that people can borrow if they have questions. The Holy Spirit really does the evangelization work, but what made me wonder what the Catholic Church taught was not any ceremony but the simple faith of a friend.

 

[roblrich]

Obviously you are NOT willing to do anything. Did you not see my earlier post. Why are you in such a hurry? All RCIA programs are around one year whether you are baptised or not. As I said earlier I was baptised and knew a lot of scripture. That doesn’t mean you know anything about the Catholic Church. Nothing is being dragged out.
Forgive me but it almost sounds like you want God to bend to your will.
Patience and humility are virtues.

Evidently thistle, you didn’t read my initial post that started this thread. I dare say I know more about the Catholic Church then a lot of “cradle Catholics”.

But you are right, I am no longer willing to do anything. If the catholic Church is like you and the cold and indiferent people that seem to be at my parish, it’s probably not for me. My mistake.

Maybe there is no true church as I hoped. It can’t be that Christ wants people to get a College degree in theology to become a member of his church. If Christainity is that difficult and is similar to brain surgery, good luck to the couple of dozen scholars that will be in heaven.

I knocked on the door, but I’m not gonna break it down. I got turned away…

RCIA, a fabulous program!

 

[roblrich]

And now my thoughts on evangelization.

The best way for a Catholic to evangelize is to know his faith live his life according to his faith. Don’t be shy of having distinctively Catholic things in plain sight. Have a small library of explanatory materials faithful to the magisterium that people can borrow if they have questions. The Holy Spirit really does the evangelization work, but what made me wonder what the Catholic Church taught was not any ceremony but the simple faith of a friend.

A Catholic evangelize? They won’t even say hello after Mass.

 

[calchiquita]

This discussion reminds me of an interview I heard with Steve Ray, a prominent convert and Catholic apologist. At some point along the path, he was overjoyed with what he had discovered about the Church, but his wife was angry. When he questioned her about her anger, she said something like this: if Catholics know they have the fullness of the truth, and they know I wasn’t Catholic, then why didn’t they share it with me?

Ya know, that thought crossed my mind too. I wonder how many of them were gunshy after being told their church was the “Whore of Babylon”?

Also, I took a class in college about Catholicism (pro, taught by a priest), just never really saw the difference then.

Still, when I did in my 50’s learn about the Catholic Church (hurray for the internet) I was kinda taken aback, like how come nobody ever told me the truth?

 

[Linda_Marie]

I am a convert who was baptised and confirmed 27 years ago come Easter.

It took a good 2 years from when I got the call from God (March 1978) to when I was finally baptised and confirmed (Easter 1980). There is a lot to learn and the long course really only scratched the surface of all there is to know. The Church regards your conversion with all seriousness and wants to make sure that you are sure about what you are asking for and that you know what you are getting into. You might be surprised to find that there are things that you have to unlearn as well as learn. Don’t be discouraged by a long wait or a difficult journey.

I have had a lot of experience in long-distance moves, leaving all my friends behind, having to make new ones. It is always difficult but I have found that I needed to make the first move. If I waited until they came to me, it just wasn’t going to happen. It was the same with the Church. I had to introduce myself to people, join in the activities of the parish. In my first parish, I joined the Prayer Group and attended some of the adult faith education classes (these were apart from the RCIA).

We have made 2 more big moves since then and each time I had to re-introduce myself and make a place for myself within my new parish community. This last time, here where I live now, I joined, first, the Majellans then later the choir and the Prayer Group. BTW, I am also somewhat introverted so doing this is not easy for me.

After the next Mass or RCIA class you attend, introduce yourself. Put yourself forward. Make yourself known to them. Say, “Hi, I’m Rob. I’m new here and I’m very interested in becoming a Catholic” or words to that effect.

As for a sponser, I was also told that I needed one. The parish had volunteers and a married couple was assigned to me. I saw them three times; at the first RCIA class, at the Rite of Acceptance and at my Baptism and Confirmation. I received no support from them whatsoever.

But - this was the Church to which God had called me. This was where He wanted me to be. I wasn’t going to let other peoples’ reluctance or shortcomings hinder me from the path He had chosen for me. So I persevered even though at times I was reduced to tears, thinking I would never be baptised or the wait was just too long or it was just too hard.

Hang in there. It is worth the effort.

 

[calchiquita]

After listening to Ava Maria Radio online for quite sometime, after reading my Catholic Bibles, after reading my Catechism in detail, after listening to every archived show of Catholic Answers dating back to 1999, and after watching almost every movie that Netflix has on the Saints, I decided that yes the Catholic Church is the true Church and the Church for me. I was determined to speak with someone at my local Catholic parish. To no surprise, I got a recorded message, but this time it wasn’t going to deter me. I phoned and phoned til I finally got through (guess I should have tried during banking hours before). And to my astonishment, even in my rural area our local priest couldn’t possibly see me for at least a week. I shook my head and made the appointment.

Don’t make the mistake of going by how friendly people are at mass or how you think they should be welcoming you. That would be nice, yes. But, even if everyone at the mass were evil, even if the priest were a grave sinner, that is still where you are going to find the Eucharist. Worth it for that.

I think Satan would love for us to get discouraged and walk away from the Church Christ established. If the Holy Spirit has convinced you the Catholic Church is the true church and that is where the Real Presence is, take the wait up as your cross.

 

[Peterdiago]

Roblrich, please don’t be put off by the reactions you might have got from one or two Catholics - be they laypeople or priests.

You say that Catholicism seems like an exclusive club to you, but you also say that you know it to be the one true Church.

Here is the thing - you are NOT joining or planning to join an exclusive club, you are planning to join the one true Church. And the Church is perfect - her members are not.

Really, that is the case here. There are those who are inattentive, there are those who might be short and snappy with you and accuse you of a lack of patience or whatever. There are those who will look down on you for not being a cradle Catholic.

Etc.

However, the Church - the Bride of Christ - never thinks like that. She is welcoming and wants you to come to her. She is overjoyed that you have found the truth of Christianity, and she weeps when she sees you have doubts that might stop you from coming into full communion with her.

The Church is perfect, people are not. The Church is the Church, the people in it - sometimes - form little cliques and they can be pretty nasty.

You are joining the Church, not a club within her, not a party within her. You will become a Catholic, not a member of a club.

I can’t speak about your particular situation - I was told much the same as you were when I joined the Church. I realized that it was necessary to ensure that I really meant it. But I don’t know how you have been treated and so forth, so I can’t comment.

All I can say is that joining the Church in full communion will be the most important thing you ever do. It is worth the wait to do it properly as part of the Easter vigil.

Christ wants people to be hungry for Him in the Eucharist - it is often very, very hard to be kept away from that for whatever reason, but there are graces associated with that. Blessed are those who suffer, after all.

 

[roblrich]

I am going to speak with my local priest today if he has the time. Once that is done, I am sure most of my misconceptions will be cleared up. I simply think this is bad timing on my part, seeking help during a time he has been quite busy.

I don’t know how a thread about me not feeling welcomed at church turned into a thread about me not willing to do what it takes. But regardless what I posted before in frustration, I will do what it takes, even if it takes to a year from this Easter to be confirmed.

I am 46 years of age, not in good health because of a bad heart and other problems. My youngest brother may die in the next few weeks, my other younger brother is in worse health than I am, and our Dad died at age 36 from his heart. I am feeling my mortality and feel this is urgent on my part.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Stephen_C]

I am going to speak with my local priest today if he has the time. Once that is done, I am sure most of my misconceptions will be cleared up. I simply think this is bad timing on my part, seeking help during a time he has been quite busy.

I don’t know how a thread about me not feeling welcomed at church turned into a thread about me not willing to do what it takes. But regardless what I posted before in frustration, I will do what it takes, even if it takes to a year from this Easter to be confirmed.

I am 46 years of age, not in good health because of a bad heart and other problems. My youngest brother may die in the next few weeks, my other younger brother is in worse health than I am, and our Dad died at age 36 from his heart. I am feeling my mortality and feel this is urgent on my part.

Thanks for the replies.

roblrich,
You and your family are in my prayers.
God Bless

 

[Peterdiago]

I don’t know how a thread about me not feeling welcomed at church turned into a thread about me not willing to do what it takes.

That’s easy - the people who are saying you are unwilling to do what it takes are the like the ones who are making you feel unwelcome

I am feeling my mortality and feel this is urgent on my part.

Baptism of desire. You are doing everything in your power to come to the truth. God will not let you down because of some tricky problem with your cardiac system.

You are, of course, in my prayers.

 

[djrakowski]

Ya know, that thought crossed my mind too. I wonder how many of them were gunshy after being told their church was the “Whore of Babylon”?

That’s a fair question, and one I’ve discussed with a good cradle Catholic friend. I can see that the abuse the Church has had to endure from fundamentalist Protestants would make individual Catholics reluctant to share.

Also, I took a class in college about Catholicism (pro, taught by a priest), just never really saw the difference then.

Still, when I did in my 50’s learn about the Catholic Church (hurray for the internet) I was kinda taken aback, like how come nobody ever told me the truth?

Exactly. Fortunately, with organizations like EWTN, Catholic Answers and St. Michael’s Media (producers of The One True Faith television program, which airs on local secular stations here in Detroit, and soon, hopefully elsewhere), the tide is starting to turn. Non-Catholics are seeing these programs and asking, “why has nobody ever shared this with me?” I received a letter from St. Michael’s Media, and it included a quote that went something like this: “If I’d known these things about the Catholic Church, I never would’ve left it.”

 

[djrakowski]

I am going to speak with my local priest today if he has the time. Once that is done, I am sure most of my misconceptions will be cleared up. I simply think this is bad timing on my part, seeking help during a time he has been quite busy.

I don’t know how a thread about me not feeling welcomed at church turned into a thread about me not willing to do what it takes. But regardless what I posted before in frustration, I will do what it takes, even if it takes to a year from this Easter to be confirmed.

I am 46 years of age, not in good health because of a bad heart and other problems. My youngest brother may die in the next few weeks, my other younger brother is in worse health than I am, and our Dad died at age 36 from his heart. I am feeling my mortality and feel this is urgent on my part.

Thanks for the replies.

Bless you, Rob, for looking into the Catholic Church. I pray that the priest will eventually have time to sit with you and discuss your desire to convert. I also pray that you will receive grace to make it through the process, no matter what that process may be.

Dan

 

[lizaanne]

Thank you djrakowski!!

**roblrich - **please also take a look at the podcasts on the SMM site (in my signature and in djrakowski’s post above). There is a ton of good information there that may help you ride the tide until you can be fully received into the One True Faith.

~Liza

 

[djrakowski]

Thank you djrakowski!!

Hey, I may not be able to give much time, talent and treasure to SMM, but I’m happy to give y’all a plug in my posts from time to time!

 

[irishmac]

Hey roblrich,

The journey home is difficult, but I’ll offer up prayers that the Holy Spirit will bless you along the way.

 

[Contarini]

But you are right, I am no longer willing to do anything. If the catholic Church is like you and the cold and indiferent people that seem to be at my parish, it’s probably not for me. My mistake.

And all I can say is, God bless those cold and indifferent people. If you’re that easily discouraged, then clearly you needed to be discouraged.

Maybe there is no true church as I hoped. It can’t be that Christ wants people to get a College degree in theology to become a member of his church.

I can’t for the life of me see how this is relevant to anything that has been raised. On the contrary, you seem to be approaching Catholicism with the assumption that because you understand it theologically (or think you do) you should be welcomed with open arms.

I knocked on the door, but I’m not gonna break it down.

And only those willing to break the door down have any business entering.

How about joining me in the Episcopal Church, brother? We can raise a glass to the sacred religion of lukewarmness and comfort.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[roblrich]

Edwin, what was the point of your last post? As I posted later, that was written in frustration to thistle’s unthought out, inconsiderate post.

I went to Mass this afternoon. The lady that leads RCIA spoke to me as I went in from the parking lot. That was an improvement. The priest’s homily was about parish unity and the lack of it at ours . I assume thats why I have been treated so coldly, as there must be some conflict in the parish. What, I would have no idea nor do I care.

After Mass, I thought I would wait at the front door to speak with the priest and the RCIA Lady, but they must have ran out the back door. No one else even bothered to say hi, hello or anything on their way out. That’s ok, I no longer care about speaking to any of them either.

I went over to the Church offices and asked to speak with the priest, then waited for 20 minutes until he arrived. He graciously brought me into his office right away and reassured me of a few things. He is great! I like him as I said in the above posts.

He didn’t promise anything on my progression in the Church, or even if I would be able to attend the ‘Rites of Election and the Calling to Continuing Conversion’ ceremony that will be held on the 24th of February, a full 5 weeks away. This confuses me a little as isn’t this what I am doing? I believe in the Catholic Church, I am a baptized Christain, I have catechized mself as much as one can do online by reading the Catechism and listening to Catholic online radio. But I 'll trust the priest to do what is needed. As I understand it, he will take over teaching the RCIA classes this week. I will not miss a Mass or a RCIA class if I can possibly help it until I am accepted.

I can’t wait to learn the “secret handshake”, passwords, etc. Good, my sense of humor is returning.

The priest seems nice, receptive and caring. Busy, but caring. He’s all I need in this parish. I don’t need nice pleasantries from anyone else. It isn’t like I was going to get any if I did anyways.

But it sure is clear that Catholics have no idea how to evangelize. It’s seems to be not in their character or “style” to go out of their way to lead souls to God. They seem to want to discourage, make it as difficult as possible, etc. They must not want to share the cup with anyone else. Well, in their face! They will soon have another member if they want me or not!

During my conversion, whenever I am ready to go to Mass, have an appointment with the priest or whatever, I find that my car keys mysteriously are lost, my belt will go missing, my wallet gets kicked under the sofa, etc, etc to delay me. So I must be on the right track.

This will be my last post as I don’t need the negativity of this board from the 2 or 3 individuals that seem to delight in it. I realized who they really work for. Someone that said, “It’s better to reign in hell than serve in heaven”.

But I thank everyone else that had kind words and offered prayers. Please keep praying for me as I need them.

Thanks…

 

[Dr_Paul]

Since many of the Catholics who regularly post on this forum are apparently avid readers and have an understandable affinity to the history of the Catholic church, I might recommend a short book that describes what some of the earliest christians went through in their journey into the Church. While the book itself is fiction, it helps one to get a very accurate understanding of first century RCIA.

The book is called Junia by Michael Giesler. You can probably read it in one sitting.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I am going to speak with my local priest today if he has the time. Once that is done, I am sure most of my misconceptions will be cleared up. I simply think this is bad timing on my part, seeking help during a time he has been quite busy…

Hi Roblrich and welcome .

Sorry your not feeling very you welcome in the Catholic church. I know this must be frustrating for you. (My husband experienced something similar when he felt ready to join the Catholic Church.) While you are feeling ready to act right away, due to health etc., the Church doesn’t often rush things. Part of the thing about Catholicism is it’s an ancient Church so it usually
m o v e s v e r y s l o w l y.

The Catholic Church doesn’t want people joining on a whim, then not following through. We believe being a Catholic Christian carries certain obligations. People need to know what they’re joining and what’s expected of them. As you wrote, you may know more about Catholicism than cradle Catholics. We baptise babies whose parents promise to raise them in the faith; if the parents fail to follow through on that promise then we get Catholics who don’t know the faith. (Poor catechisis is also partly to blame.) If/when you go through RCIA, you may discover some cradle Catholics who were not fully initiated into the Catholic Church (i.e. first communion and confirmation) taking RCIA classes right along with you.

There are several other differences from the churches you are probably used to. You mentioned you want to speak to the priest if he has time. I hope he makes the time, but the usual ratio of clergy to members is much different from most protestant churches. You will probably always find priests quite busy, (but hopefully not too busy for the needs of the people of God.)

We also don’t usually have people walking into our parishes wanting to join without knowing other Catholics–it’s great that you do, but I don’t think we’re used to that! A sponsor is a confirmed Catholic that helps someone such as yourself who is coming fully into the Catholic Church. Their help can be with both understanding the teachings (which you say you understand and might in some cases be better than the Catholic sponsor) but also help to understand the “culture” which seems to be causing some concern for you at the moment.

If you truly don’t know any other Catholics then, (while you may not need RCIA from the teaching standpoint,) it might be helpful from the fellowship standpoint to help you navigate through the Catholic Church. But as you write you have health concerns, mention that to the priest so he can take your particular situation into account.

Oh, I now see your post that you already met with the priest and don’t plan to respond to this thread again. I don’t know if you’ll see this or not, but I’ll say a little prayer for you.

 

[roblrich]

I had to respond after a nice post gardenswithkids. Thanks for the kind words.

I didn’t mean that my health was so serious to warrant expedited consideration into the Church. It is not. I only wanted to stress my realization of my mortality.

I have decided to accept this lack of acceptance from my parish and accept the extra scrutinization most converting Christains aren’t seem to be asked to accept as if I am not a Christain. I will go to Mass, go to RCIA classes, etc for as long as it takes. I will do this gladly, humbly and in good spirits. If the priest says I am coming along smoothly and it looks good for me to take further steps of sacraments, I will ask him if he is sure. Don’t I need further purification?

I will do all this as graciously as I can. But one thing I won’t do is ask someone to sponsor me. I don’t know anyone at this parish, and if no one volunteers, than I will do without a sponsor. And if that means I can’t be initiated into the faith, I’ll continue to Mass and RCIA until I am asked to stop coming. If I am never asked to stop coming, I’ll go to the day I die. That is all I can do.